Thursday Next Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Is there not a Kickstarter thread? Well now there is. Takedown is one of a few higher value Kickstarter projects raking in over $200k. There's something I don't get about these... PLEDGE $250 OR MORE 38 BACKERS Original poster of the cover of the game (shipping is free in the U.S., $10 shipping internationally). Special thanks in the credits. Includes all previous rewards. Estimated Delivery: Jun 2013 PLEDGE $500 OR MORE 11 BACKERS Get an in-game badge on your player model showing that you supported the project! Includes all previous rewards. That's 11 people who have paid $250 for Horse Armour. If EA had put a special Dog Tag for BF3 up for sale for $250 they would have been either laughed out of the room for being delusional or torn to shreds as greedy, good-for-nothing blood suckers. Is the warm fuzzy feeling Kickstarter seems to give people really worth that much money? Incidentally, I'm still waiting with curiosity for the first big Kickstarter flop. Once people learn that the money they are pledging can just disappear we might see them being a lot more choosy about what they back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Kickstarter itself may be a fad. I'd love it if people just gave me money rather than to a charity but maybe that's not really that responsible of them? I dunno, if I'm going to donate money I'd rather give to a worthy cause <------------- Edited April 2, 2012 by Yantelope V2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Well it's not entirely a donation, every Kickstarter I've seen treats each pledge as a preorder at the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Yeah, Dean didn't even give me a free game. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 It's a donation + a gift. Remember that. Also, Kickstarter is a fad? I've been using it for ages. It's just now catching on with video games. Also, if you really care about a project, then why not throw a bunch of money at it? If you really want to support the people on the project then this is a great way to do it. Plus, if your'e unsure about if they'll reach funding (which is true for most of these) then there's that benefit as well. Also remember that they only get the money if they reach the goal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 The thing that makes me uncomfortable about Kickstarter is that there is precisely 0 onus on the person running the project to do anything with it. They can take your money, have a crack at the project and then shrug their shoulders and say "Well, that didn't work. Thanks for donating anyways." There's no contract formed between people who pledge and the people asking for money so if something doesn't go right there's no recourse should stuff just not work out the way the donee hoped. Even more disreputably, after failing they can then sell the project on to a publisher and make money out of the deal, and they still won't be obliged to send you a lithograph or whatever else they promised. In short, it looks to me like a bubble that is waiting to burst as it is a structure built on goodwill and honesty, both of which are (in my opinion) in short supply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Whats to stop people from asking for 2 million dollars and only spending 100,000 to make a really cheap game? And then they just pocket the rest? I doubt people would be cool with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I would be cool with people not being cool with me if I had $1.9million of their money. EDIT - Sometimes it worries me how much I think like I think my employer thinks, but then the payslip arrives and all the bad feelings go away... Edited April 2, 2012 by Thursday Next 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) What I don't get is how people are donating money to people looking to make money. If I went around asking people to donate money to me so that I could start an oil change center and make some money they'd laugh at me. Even if I promised them a free oil change when or if it did get built. There's plenty of things in this world worth donating to, I'm not sure that "people making money" is a worthy cause. So, basically what I'm hearing is that we all need to set up a "Press X or Die" kickstarter advertising some really cool idea for a new game and then just pocket the cash? Sounds like a plan to me. Edited April 2, 2012 by Yantelope V2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 The thing that makes me uncomfortable about Kickstarter is that there is precisely 0 onus on the person running the project to do anything with it. They can take your money, have a crack at the project and then shrug their shoulders and say "Well, that didn't work. Thanks for donating anyways." There's no contract formed between people who pledge and the people asking for money so if something doesn't go right there's no recourse should stuff just not work out the way the donee hoped. Even more disreputably, after failing they can then sell the project on to a publisher and make money out of the deal, and they still won't be obliged to send you a lithograph or whatever else they promised. In short, it looks to me like a bubble that is waiting to burst as it is a structure built on goodwill and honesty, both of which are (in my opinion) in short supply. This is why they call it a donation. If you don't trust the person then don't give them your money. This is why it works better with people/organizations that are already established at what they do. Whats to stop people from asking for 2 million dollars and only spending 100,000 to make a really cheap game? And then they just pocket the rest? I doubt people would be cool with it. Exactly. Sure, you can take the money and run on this project, but good luck getting anyone to buy anything from you ever again. What I don't get is how people are donating money to people looking to make money. If I went around asking people to donate money to me so that I could start an oil change center and make some money they'd laugh at me. Even if I promised them a free oil change when or if it did get built. There's plenty of things in this world worth donating to, I'm not sure that "people making money" is a worthy cause. So, basically what I'm hearing is that we all need to set up a "Press X or Die" kickstarter advertising some really cool idea for a new game and then just pocket the cash? Sounds like a plan to me. What? You do know that people quite frequently invest in businesses they believe in right? This is the same concept except with such small amounts of money that you don't get any part of the business. You're donating to get something you want made. Either that, or your'e donating for other reasons such as supporting independent publishing, entrepreneurship, new ideas/creativity, etc. No one would donate to this PXOD kickstarter. It wouldn't gain any traction. Unless you set the fundraisining to $100 or something. No idea what the minimum is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I think most of you are missing the point. It's not asking $250 for Horse Armour, it's just a way to give people who spent more than others a little more than a plain old thanks. I doubt that people who donated $250 did so for the actual pledge reward, rather, they can afford churning out $250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted April 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 People invest in businesses that they believe will make them money. That's my problem with Kickstarter, on the one hand you call it a donation, on the other an investment. You have all the risks of an investment (losing your money), with none of the benefits (getting more out than you put in). At best you can hope to break even and get the reward you pledged for (assuming that in pledging for that reward you accept that it is of equal value to your donation). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 What TN said. If you're going to invest then invest. If you're going to throw your money to people then at least pick a good cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 A short explanation about why Kickstarter works: Enthusiast gamers care about cool game projects. Enthusiast gamers with spare cash are sometimes willing to part with some of that cash to help those projects become finished games. It's not an investment that grants a return of cash. It's an investment that grants a return of this cool project becoming a reality. I don't see why this concept is difficult. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) What TN said. If you're going to invest then invest. If you're going to throw your money to people then at least pick a good cause. Because humans deal in absolutes? Not everyone can or wants to start a business. Not every charity cause is something people would agree with. This is for people in-between. There is obviously an interest since people keep successfully starting projects. I mean, seriously, fuck your argument. We got Wasteland 2 thanks to this. Edited April 2, 2012 by Cyber Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Hey, if you do actually end up getting a copy of wasteland 2 as a result then great. I'm happy for you. I'm not saying everyone will abuse this system. I'm just saying that I find it hard to part with my personal money on the chance that somebody may use to to make a game that might be good eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 If you're going to throw your money to people then at least pick a good cause. ...Who are you to judge people because the causes they donate to aren't "good enough"? Unless you're seriously trying to argue that kickstarter is not only "not good enough", but that it's actually bad. I really hope that's not what you're arguing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Sorry, you guys have already donated to kickstarter haven't you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 People invest in businesses that they believe will make them money. That's my problem with Kickstarter, on the one hand you call it a donation, on the other an investment. You have all the risks of an investment (losing your money), with none of the benefits (getting more out than you put in). At best you can hope to break even and get the reward you pledged for (assuming that in pledging for that reward you accept that it is of equal value to your donation). I never called it an investment. I was saying it's similar. Kickstarter is donation based but is centered around the idea of supporting a business/artist/whomever financially. So it has aspects of both donations and of investments. If you're going to throw your money to people then at least pick a good cause. ...Who are you to judge people because the causes they donate to aren't "good enough"? Unless you're seriously trying to argue that kickstarter is not only "not good enough", but that it's actually bad. I really hope that's not what you're arguing. Which is followed by this bullshit response. Sorry, you guys have already donated to kickstarter haven't you... ...why should we take you seriously again? Get the fuck out of this thread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) You guys really are taking this a bit too seriously no? Why are you so upset? All I said was that you're taking a risk with your money so that some other people can make money. It's a little silly to me but if you want to do it than go for it. I never said it was bad or wrong. I did say that other things you could do with your money could be more constructive. I suppose that's true of all games though. Edited April 2, 2012 by Yantelope V2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 If anyone's upset it's probably because you're acting like a huge cock. And actually, I have not donated to kickstarter. There were a few times I've wanted to, but generally my being fucking broke has gotten in the way a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 You guys really are taking this a bit too seriously no? Why are you so upset? All I said was that you're taking a risk with your money so that some other people can make money. It's a little silly to me but if you want to do it than go for it. I never said it was bad or wrong. I did say that other things you could do with your money could be more constructive. I suppose that's true of all games though. There is no risk. It's a donation. Risk implies making money. Every single Kickstarter I've donated to I've gotten exactly what they've promised. Also, when the Kickstarter money isn't enough after meeting the goal, other people outside of Kickstarter invest in the project because obviously people are interested. So I really don't think it's "risky" at all. I will re-iterate that they only get the money if they can fully meet the goal. There is no halfway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangelove Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 To FDS: Well, once you have almost 2 million dollars in your pocket, the hell with your reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Donation. A voluntary gift or contribution for a specific cause. I don't think people making games is a worthwhile cause requiring charity. Care to debate that then fine. If you want to buy games then buy games. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to pre-order a game that may never come and I'm not going to get a refund on and it might not even be good because it's not even in development yet. That seems a bit silly to me but again that's your choice. Now why you guys think those opinions are worth of resulting to name calling rather than actually having a discussion I don't know. If it's worked out for you in the past that's also fine. I don't care. Donate to Tim Schafer if you want, that's double fine. I just would rather either buy a game or donate to a real charity and not try to confuse the two. Edited April 2, 2012 by Yantelope V2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Donation. A voluntary gift or contribution for a specific cause. I don't think people making games is a worthwhile cause requiring charity. Care to debate that then fine. If you want to buy games then buy games. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to pre-order a game that may never come and I'm not going to get a refund on and it might not even be good because it's not even in development yet. That seems a bit silly to me but again that's your choice. Now why you guys think those opinions are worth of resulting to name calling rather than actually having a discussion I don't know. If it's worked out for you in the past that's also fine. I don't care. Donate to Tim Schafer if you want, that's double fine. I just would rather either buy a game or donate to a real charity and not try to confuse the two. You can donate to things besides charities. You're just using whatever word you think will help your argument even though it doesn't apply. Previously it was risk. To go over the basics that you can't get through your thick head (who knows, maybe you're trolling) 1) You're not pre-ordering anything 2) You get your money back if the project isn't funded 3) It's likely in the ToS that people can be sued over this 4) There hasn't been a case (that I can think of) of people taking the money and running 5) Many of these projects would not exist if it wasn't for fan donations. You wouldn't get to the part of even having the choice to buy the game when it's out because it wouldn't exist. This isn't true for every Kickstarter of course but for many of them it is. Also I think things like giving the creators control is a very big positive of Kickstarter. It's something I support in all industries. You seem to be ignoring all of these aspects of it in your so-called "discussion." Really, if you want to have a discussion, you might want to actually respond to the specific things we're saying, instead of just yelling from your soap box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.