NeoStarr Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 On 3/31/2013 at 9:26 PM, Deanb said: Reveal hidden contents And yes Columbia isn't a result purely of the baptism, but Comstocks leadership of the place is. iirc from the museum he's the one that backed Luteces quantum levitation theory, that powers Columbia, too. Reveal hidden contents And in Bioshock, Ryan backs Tennenbaums genetic research into Adam which allowed rapture to thrive. Both Tennenbaum and Lutece see the error in their ways and set out to fix it, Quote Reveal hidden contents Those are all thematic similarities though. Reveal hidden contents It's more than just themes; it's what Elizabeth is referencing in that quote about constants and variables. Quote Reveal hidden contents They are completely different people born many miles and years apart Reveal hidden contents Which doesn't make a lick of difference when elements of the story are transcending space and time. In alternate universes, things might take longer, or shorter, or they may happen in different places, but they always happen. They may look different or be named differently according to popular fashions of the era in which they perceive their waking life. That's why Lutece is so obsessed with syntax. Everything was, is, and will be. You're focusing way too much on the timeline when there essentially is none. That was a hard post to format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnine Tenshi Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Reveal hidden contents Time is an ocean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoStarr Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Interestingly enough; in explaining this I've actually realized something... Spoilers for System Shock 1/2, Bioshock's spiritual predecessor; Reveal hidden contents Hacker - Soldier - Jack - BookerDiego - Comstock - RyanPolito - Fitzroy - FontaineRebecca - Elizabeth - Little SisterShodan - Songbird - Big DaddyCitadel - Rickenbacker - Rapture - ColumbiaImplant - Military service - brainwashing - BaptismIt's a parallel universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Reveal hidden contents The Luteces regret nothing, they embrace the gift their experiments has given them, and what they set out to do is to stop Comstock from attacking New York in the future. That's why it's Brookers debt, not theirs. They're not the ones attacking New York, selling Anne, keeping Elizabeth locked up. As far as constants and variables, they're shown throughout. You'll always flip heads (122 times), you'll always pick ball #77. The variables are things like the Baptism, chromosomes, who is alive and who is dead, where the freight hooks are placed on buildings. Not if you're born in Russia or in America, or if 19th or 20th century. It travels through time and space only a handful of time. 1 when Elizabeth opens a tear to 1983 Paris, 2 when you got to the 1984 attack on New York, 3 when you travel to 1960's Rapture. When you travel between realities, such as in the integration room, police storage, and pulling items and building-bits through tears it's in the exact same time and place. Even at the nexus construct they're all the same Lighthouse, and the people on the other ports are all Brooker and Elizabeth, just slightly parallel universe versions. If the changes between parallel universes were to be as drastic as you're implying, and not at most like between Brooker and Comstock and Luteces, they'd be all different buildings and hundreds of different people. Reveal hidden contents Or you know...the same developers make use of the same themes, tropes and mechanics, which is a shit ton more believable than them having the plot of Bioshock Infinite, a game as already discussed just the other day was revamped in story mid-development (along with the original Bioshock too), in the works for nearly 20 years. edit: And as far as formatting quotes goes, you can click the light switch button to go into non-RTE mode. I do agree that the recent quotes update is kinda balls, and going off their feedback, it seems most other IPB users agree. edit 2: A guy did a survey of the choices folks made in Infinite, here's the results Reveal hidden contents What'd be interesting is seeing if there was anything at all that came from those choices. The Slate one seems to be the only one with a slight change. From what I hear on the Raffle the result is the same in the AD being spotted before the ball is thrown. (incidentally I am the 15%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Oh look I am in the minority again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnine Tenshi Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I'm in the majority in everything but the couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 On 3/31/2013 at 11:00 PM, Saturnine Tenshi said: WHITE POWER 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnine Tenshi Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Haha. :V Reveal hidden contents & Elven Ampersands &: & Elven Ampersands &: i figured they were going to get baseballs no matter what i did& Elven Ampersands &: so better to not stand out& Elven Ampersands &: plus i didn't care Edited March 31, 2013 by Saturnine Tenshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoStarr Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 On 3/31/2013 at 10:31 PM, Deanb said: Reveal hidden contents As far as constants and variables, they're shown throughout. You'll always flip heads (122 times), you'll always pick ball #77. The variables are things like the Baptism, chromosomes, who is alive and who is dead, where the freight hooks are placed on buildings. Not if you're born in Russia or in America, or if 19th or 20th century. Reveal hidden contents The coin flip is a constant, but the Lutece's were only experimenting on a fraction of possible timelines. You are the 123rd Booker they experimented on, this is true, but that's not to say that decisions prior to the creation of Columbia wouldn't lead to you being someone other than Booker. If they had appeared in Rapture and given Jack the choice it would've still flipped heads. Columbia is Lutece's baby and that's why she'd be more concerned about it's fate then Rapture or whatever else. I just came across this image on reddit; which I think further suggests that it being New Years is another constant in relation to the destruction of a city; it just happens on different years... http://i.imgur.com/MtkiWZt.jpg Quote Reveal hidden contents Or you know...the same developers make use of the same themes, tropes and mechanics, which is a shit ton more believable than them having the plot of Bioshock Infinite, a game as already discussed just the other day was revamped in story mid-development (along with the original Bioshock too), in the works for nearly 20 years. I never said it was intentional; that's just my super cool fan theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yeah what was thoughts behind choices? I've seen some people make same choice as me but for different reasons. Reveal hidden contents For the couple I threw it because I wanted to remain incognito, though regardless you end up getting caught out which sucks. Picked the bird because "freedom". Demanded tickets, because once again incognito. Spared him because ...not quite sure...iirc I thought he was okay but I'm not sure why. I know there was definitely no reason I had to kill him other than his request. I did kill him in the interrogation cells though. Reveal hidden contents Where did it say they were experimenting on only a fraction of the timelines? "He DOESN'T row". They're in all of them. They're probing the boundaries of constants and variables, hence the choices they give you, much in the same way of the baptism choice. Also come Rapture the Luteces would be coming on...80-90 years old. And yes we know choices prior to Columbia could lead you to becoming something other than Brooker because a choice prior to creation of Columbia is Brooker becoming Comstock. Different years, different cities, different reasons, different circumstances entirely, the New Years being the only similarity. Hooray for super cool fan theories. Remember though, headcanon is just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoStarr Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 On 3/31/2013 at 11:25 PM, Deanb said: Reveal hidden contents Where did it say they were experimenting on only a fraction of the timelines? Reveal hidden contents Because there are more than 123 possibilities. When Elizabeth looks up at the stars at the end of the game she says that there are thousands of doors. EDIT: I just picked all the obvious non-violent choices cause I'm a little angel. :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Reveal hidden contents The doors are just tears not realities, Brooker even mentions/clarifies that with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoStarr Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Pretty sure that never actually happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Reveal hidden contents Also in the part where she says there's thousands of doors, she says there's millions of worlds. She's not exactly specific in her numbering system used, if anything they should be the other way around. (She also mentions that "I can see them through the doors, you, me, Columbia, Songbird. But sometimes, something's different." Which'd kinda nail those four things as the main constants. If the fact they're all there regardless of your reality jumping didn't already. It's other things around you that change. The Lutece's are following through on each Brooker though, they're the ones pulling you into Comstocks universe pretty much moments before the game starts. You fuck up and die, they go back and pull Brooker through to Comstocks universe all over again. In offering you choices it allows variables to be introduced, so that things will be different to the prior failed attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Just finished it. Really loved the ending. There were some elements that disappointed me slightly. but I guess my main complaint would be about how Reveal hidden contents Songbird is a very minor presence. I was hoping he'd be more of a constant threat. The first time he shows up after you get Elizabeth out of her tower and he starts chasing after you on the skyline was super exciting but afterwards he just kinda shows up a couple times to say "yo, what up?" and does basically nothing until the very end. I thought the meeting with Comstock was disappointing and nowhere near as memorable as the one with Ryan but then the ending really made up for it so I don't really have a complaint there. The little walk through Rapture was a really nice touch. I was hoping there would be something like that. I'll have to let it all sink in a bit more to decide whether I think it's better than the original, but overall I'd say it at least matched it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Reveal hidden contents Songbird might get his own DLC. They put out a poll asking fans what they wanted the DLC to be about and Songbird is the most popular choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hmm, might have to get the season pass, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Man I am jealous of everybody who has beaten it already. I didn't have the time at all this weekend until today. Right now these last pages look like excerpts of words with that sea of spoilers I can't click Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoStarr Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) This was posted on Reddit... Reveal hidden contents 14 seconds into the video you can Reveal hidden contents hear Songbird dying. This is from Bioshock 1. Edited April 1, 2013 by Deanb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 That begs the question. Did the developers plan that long ahead? If so damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Spoilered it up a bit more for you. Reveal hidden contents Thing is 1. It's regular creaking and screaming of Rapture. 2. It (he doesn't scream like usual, there's also a loud bang as it attacks the glass that's missing too.)3. Jack is ages away from Welcome Centre at that point. 4. You're expecting them to have planned an exceedingly specific scene, in a game they re-built just a year ago, 6 years ago. 5. Even if they were the same sounds, asset re-use is a thing. (fuck they re-used whole chunks of scenery from Bioshock... .) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnine Tenshi Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Reveal hidden contents I think the death cry video is a bit much, but the rest makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Goddamnit, now I want to play this game just so I can read all these damn spoiler tags. The occasional un-spoilered comments have me intrigued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoStarr Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 On 4/1/2013 at 7:44 AM, Waldorf And Statler said: That begs the question. Did the developers plan that long ahead? If so damn.It's probably a reused sound effect (bending metal, makes sense); but it's super weird. At the very best they might have gone through all the little things in Bioshock to try and create a subtle reference but more than likely it's prolly just dumb luck that adds to the experience quite a bit. If I were Ken Levine though, I'd be all over twitter right now taking credit for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Well, with this huge poster on Steam, I'm gonna HAVE to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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