RockyRan Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 The ever-wonderful Kotaku is reporting that the Wii "Feel" or Project Cafe will not have a hard disc drive, but instead will sport 8 gigs of flash memory as well as SD card expansion. It seems full downloadable games would be out of the question, then, though DLC and classic games would obviously still be viable. They are also reporting up to 25 gigs of storage on each Wii game disc. http://ca.kotaku.com/5797890/nintendos-next-console-will-enter-the-hd-era-but-not-the-hard+drive-era It might be my complete ignorance of disc storage formats, but 25 gigs? That's not possible on a DVD meant for mass consumption, is it? Also, if there's no HDD Nintendo's still got their heads stuck up their asses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I don't pretend to know what a gigantic company's memory costs might be, but wouldn't 8 gigs of flash memory be as expensive as a modest hard drive? Curious why they would do this (assuming the rumor to be true of course.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Most likely. At this point I have absolutely no idea why they'd pick 8GB of flash memory over a proper HDD. I see absolutely no reason for doing that, unless it comes with a USB drive that lets people hook up an external HDD, which would be nice but would still cripple content through digital distribution due to the standard being those 8GB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 8GB of flash memory would be cheaper than an HDD and it'd get cheaper over time. HDD's are usually $50 OEM and that's the minimum which is a significant cost to a console manufacturer. The internal HDD was the reason why the original Xbox was discontinued because they couldn't lower the cost of the system below $180 and it's the reason why all XBox 360's don't have HDDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Most likely. At this point I have absolutely no idea why they'd pick 8GB of flash memory over a proper HDD. I see absolutely no reason for doing that, unless it comes with a USB drive that lets people hook up an external HDD, which would be nice but would still cripple content through digital distribution due to the standard being those 8GB. Other than the potential cost difference, I suppose I could see there being a size, noise, and heat issue. Nothing that the PS3 and 360 haven't overcome though obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 HDD's are usually $50 OEM and that's the minimum You could get a 1tb HDD for around $50 on Newegg so I highly doubt that a console manufacturer like Nintendo would be paying $50 per HDD (That would likely be a quarter of the size) from an OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 There's a difference between clearanceing old items on a retail site and purchasing new hardware in bulk from a manufacturer. I don't remember where I read the article but the cost of the HDD was the reason that MS gave for discontinuing the original Xbox after only 4 years. Even if the price is down to $40 now that's still a significant portion of a game console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 It might be my complete ignorance of disc storage formats, but 25 gigs? That's not possible on a DVD meant for mass consumption, is it? Also, if there's no HDD Nintendo's still got their heads stuck up their asses. It's the size of a single layer Blu-Ray. Expect it to be the de facto standard next gen. I don't pretend to know what a gigantic company's memory costs might be, but wouldn't 8 gigs of flash memory be as expensive as a modest hard drive? Curious why they would do this (assuming the rumor to be true of course.) Flash memory is much more expensive in terms of $/GB, but an 8GB chunk of flash memory is much cheaper than the cheapest of HDD's. However it pretty much shoots Nintendo in the foot on any chance of later expansion. If it's true Nintendo may as well save their cash n go the way of Sega now. Their profits are plummeting, the 3DS isn't selling as well as it's meant to be, their CEO is afraid of the big bad wolf phones, and they seemingly dislike the internet just as much. Their next console better be brining out all the stops and not just relying on a second Wii. It's success was more than likely a one time deal. Folks are getting wary of it. There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Yeah, the success of the Wii was entirely based on a fad if you ask me. I never play my Wii. Nintendo's profits have to plummet just because the success of the Wii is unsustainable and it's very difficult for me to think they're going to instantly implement an online infrastructure to compete with Xbox live anytime soon. Nintendo is still a tiny company compared to Sony or Microsoft. Edited May 3, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Flash memory is much more expensive in terms of $/GB, but an 8GB chunk of flash memory is much cheaper than the cheapest of HDD's. However it pretty much shoots Nintendo in the foot on any chance of later expansion. I don't think it'd necessarily ruin chance of expansion. We could see other SKU's, SD card expansion as rumored, or USB memory support. I'd prefer that actually as it would mean a lower cost system, plus I can use my 1 TB external hard drive that currently houses my Wii games. If it's true Nintendo may as well save their cash n go the way of Sega now. Their profits are plummeting, the 3DS isn't selling as well as it's meant to be, their CEO is afraid of the big bad wolf phones, and they seemingly dislike the internet just as much. I don't think the storage solution alone could kill Nintendo like that. Plus, it's more than likely that "saving their cash" isn't an option at this point considering much of the R&D budget must have been blown on this already. Now it's just a matter of manufacturing the sucker and getting it into consumers' minds and homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 SD card expansion is what the Wii has now. And all that's seen in the Wiis lifespan is a FW update to allow the Wii to use SDHC cards. SD cards are not a proper storage solution. You need to come out with your long term storage plans ASAP. Both Sony n MS did it this gen and it's worked out quite well for them. Sony had it so you had a HDD no matter what SKU. MS had the caddy system so you could get the non-HDD SKU, but had the option for HDDdown the road. Neither of these were options they added in later. It's also important for developers. For example you see a fair few UGC enable games on PS3 because developers know no matter what they're making a game for a console with at least 20GB of storage. MS dev was a bit less stringent(Reach comes to mind) but same theory applied. If Nintendo put out a system with just 8GB of space and no expansion plans on day one, devs can only ever develop games with the requirements that no matter what later SKU's come out, they only have 8GB to play with. 8GB ain't much. I deletes some PS3 demos yesterday of around a gig each. As for what'd kill Nintendo it's not the storage directly, but the fact that 8GB of storage would show no intention of proper DD plans. Which fucked em up this gen too. Next gen DD will be even more important, and folks can only download games if the console has adequate space in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 This wouldn't be the first time where Nintendo lives in the past and it bites them in the butt. *cough N64 cough* Also, I think it'd be hilarious if the new Nintendo comes without an HDD and the new xbox comes without an optical drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 SD card expansion is what the Wii has now. And all that's seen in the Wiis lifespan is a FW update to allow the Wii to use SDHC cards. SD cards are not a proper storage solution. You need to come out with your long term storage plans ASAP. Both Sony n MS did it this gen and it's worked out quite well for them. Sony had it so you had a HDD no matter what SKU. MS had the caddy system so you could get the non-HDD SKU, but had the option for HDDdown the road. Neither of these were options they added in later. It's also important for developers. For example you see a fair few UGC enable games on PS3 because developers know no matter what they're making a game for a console with at least 20GB of storage. MS dev was a bit less stringent(Reach comes to mind) but same theory applied. If Nintendo put out a system with just 8GB of space and no expansion plans on day one, devs can only ever develop games with the requirements that no matter what later SKU's come out, they only have 8GB to play with. 8GB ain't much. I deletes some PS3 demos yesterday of around a gig each. As for what'd kill Nintendo it's not the storage directly, but the fact that 8GB of storage would show no intention of proper DD plans. Which fucked em up this gen too. Next gen DD will be even more important, and folks can only download games if the console has adequate space in the first place. Exactly. If decent-sized hard drives aren't a standard for the system since day 1, very few developers are ever going to produce their games with the presence of a hard drive in mind. It's the same reason why mid-generation peripherals are never truly adopted by third party developers, because when they develop for a platform it makes little sense for them to make a game that only a fraction of their potential userbase can even buy. That's just throwing money away, and it's why Nintendo needs to have a proper storage solution now, not later. And most definitely not "never". I truly hope this rumor is false, because if it's not it goes to show how little Nintendo knows about the industry in general. They've made a couple of statements recently they're trying to take steps to ensure better relations with 3rd parties, but if you ask me it's THIS shit that kills third party support, not whether you're going to release your 1st party game on the same day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 one good thing about no HDD is that at least game patches are kept small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Technically Developers have to develop for the Xbox as if it doesn't have an HDD since not all consoles do and it doesn't hurt the system but since most consoles do have an HDD there is a pretty thriving download business. I don't think you have to include an HDD but at least offering a two tiered system like the Xbox is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 (edited) I still play my Wii, though on a minimalist scale, but I agree with "WTF, no HDD?!" I'll say it again, but Nintendo needs to accept a better concept of online service/interface and plan for digital/online storage. Flash memory was fine 'n dandy the first year or so, but it became a pain. I'm glad there's finally SDHC support, but in comparison to the 360/PS3, it's a joke. Edited May 4, 2011 by Atomsk88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Technically Developers have to develop for the Xbox as if it doesn't have an HDD since not all consoles do and it doesn't hurt the system but since most consoles do have an HDD there is a pretty thriving download business. I don't think you have to include an HDD but at least offering a two tiered system like the Xbox is a good idea. Yeah, I think that's definitely a fair solution, but I don't think Nintendo would ever go for a multiple SKU thing. I vaguely remember back when the Wii was launched that they didn't want to "confuse consumers with multiple SKUs" or something like that with the Wii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 It's pretty pointless and should maybe go in a "Fucking IGN" thread. But I'll stick it here: http://uk.wii.ign.co.../1168390p1.html Basically IGN attempted to make their own "Wii 2"* using standard PC components. Now anyone with a bit of inkling on what goes in PC's and what goes in consoles is quite a bit different. Main one being that consoles use PowerPC and PC's use X86, second being the OS, Windows concentrates on much more than just games. Apart from HDD's pretty much nothing in a Console is the same kind of kit as in a PC. So yeah they made a PC based on the specs they think the Wii 2 will have. Then proceeded to use this as a basis of how much a Wii 2 could cost, and what games it could run. They fact they branded all the components in their shopping list suggests it's a bit more than just a Wii 2 article. So yeah the Wii 2 will have 8X AA, full HD playback. They even posted iamges as: Xbox 360 (Left) vs. Wii 2 (Right) Instead of 360 on left, PC on the right. Also completely failed to take into account that many PC games aren't much heavy lifters because they're pretty much almost at max on the console. PC can breeze through most console games. Also calling it "The Wii 2" completely forgets that Nintendo have never done a sequel device. New name everytime. Closest being NES - SNES n DS n 3DS. Sony are the 123 guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Oh, IGN. Facepalm image is appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 I saw the article last night, and while I commend them for going out and building a device, even the IGN commenters knew how off-base the idea of making a "Wii 2" is. In fact, the IGN staff members who were a part of the project themselves note that their device isn't going to be nearly the same because of the unique components Nintendo will pack into their console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 Kind of pointless for them to do it. I guess its an excuse to build something. We'll see what happens during E3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 I don't see how that little experiment is indicative of anything at all. It can't even be a rough estimate, mostly because of what Dean has said. This is more "let's build a completely random rig and compare 360 games to it" than anything else. To say this is even remotely in the ballpark to what the "Wii 2" will put out is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainHurtBoy...2 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 My guess: someone at IGN wanted a free PC and pitched this idea to the higher-ups, who bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 My guess: someone at IGN wanted a free PC and pitched this idea to the higher-ups, who bit. It's like when Michael from The Office gets away with throwing dozens of parties a year with the corporate budget, i.e. The Dundies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 One site posted a rumored list of titles for Project Cafe/Stream/Wii 2, but it definitely reads like a phony. Madden and Bioshock timed exclusives? I don't think so. http://www.joblo.com/digital/index.php?id=8918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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