TheFlyingGerbil Posted April 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I still really think that digital download will be the main delivery method if not the only delivery method of the new consoles. Developers want it to kill 2nd hand sales and Console makers want it to get a piece of every single download on the system. MS is clearly building to this by refusing a BD drive add on for their system. I refute the callings of "not everyone has internet yet" by saying that the profits are more than enough to outweigh the minority of people who still don't have internet. My last mention of 50% was off but the most recent info i can find is about 3/4 of consoles connected that means you are wiping out a quarter of your market out of hand BUT out of the people that are connected that doesn't mean that all these people do or are willing to buy games. I'm happy to buy small games, in addition to disc-based games but I would not buy a download only console, and even worse would never buy a streaming console (a la onlive). people may connect to play multiplayer or small games but download caps and download speeds mean big downloads simply aren't feasible even for some internet connected gamers. Or are you saying that we won't have AAA titles nest gen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I doubt 8th gen will go download-only. I do, however, think that it's likely that every single disc-based title will also be available for DD purchase, probably day and date with the disc-based release. If they're smart, they'll make the prices of the DD versions lower too, to incentivize (seriously Chrome, I promise that's a word) people buying the DD version, which has certain advantages as Yante laid out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I don't know why there's so much doubt on this. Android, iPod, iPhone, iPad, Kindle, Steam. These are all download only services and now Netflix has more customers than Comcast. Why is it so hard to believe that the new system would be download only? You say you'd never buy a console that is download only but I'm willing to bet that when your only choice is download only then you'll pick one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 You say you'd never buy a console that is download only but I'm willing to bet that when your only choice is download only then you'll pick one up. I probably wouldn't, I'd stick to PC. Even on PC I prefer to buy physical discs rather than DD, unless there's a large price difference between the two. I think DD will be much bigger than it is this gen, but I don't think it will be the sole delivery method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 (edited) Yeah, that's just you though. I know precious few people with gaming PCs. Most of my friends game on an Xbox. Edit: That came out wrong. What I mean is I think there are far more consoles now than gaming PCs. Mainly because gaming PC's cost at least twice as much as a console. Edited April 27, 2011 by Yantelope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Also, though, think about this: you point out that Steam is DD only, but the games on it (the AAA titles, anyway) are also available at retail. Hell, Valve owns steam and they still release their own games on discs, as is proved by the retail, disc-based copy of Portal 2 PC I have on my desk at home. Valve owns the biggest DD network in existence, and even they still release their games on discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Well consoles are at 50million each, Steam is 30million+ on it's own. It's not massively behind just taking steam into account. New Vegas is only full price title I've picked up at launch on a digital service btw. Everything else is either £20 or less (normally less than £10) or/and on sale. I'd be just as wary of a download only console. Especially as I have no idea how safe that would be. At least with PC I know I can usually rip titles, easily pirate and back up my games. With a console unless it comes with a blu-ray burner and is easily hacked to allow pirated copies after it's time has passed, how do I have any assurances? So even as someone pretty happy to download most titles on PC and pretty pro-streaming games, I'm wary of console downloads. That's something they need to fix next gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 For the record I prefer discs too and I only download games when they are super cheap. I just know that lots of people, myself included, have a huge backlog of steam games to play because they got them for pennies on the dollar and I'd welcome the same problem on my xbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I would download games on consoles if it were like Steam and allowed me to download unlimited copies of my games to any console I logged into my account on. If it were like Nintendo's current (retarded) system of being tied to one console, it would be a no-go for P4warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I would download games on consoles if it were like Steam and allowed me to download unlimited copies of my games to any console I logged into my account on. If it were like Nintendo's current (retarded) system of being tied to one console, it would be a no-go for P4warrior. Currently MS associates content through the console and your ID. When you download a game to your console any user on that console can access that content. If you take your ID to another house you can redownload the content but it will only be accessible when you are logged into XBL on that system. It is possible to migrate your console affiliation of all downloaded content to a new console but it can only be done once per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Oh yeah if a single 8th gen consoles comes out with a DVD drive.... Blu-Ray or bust. When does Sony's patent expire? Do Nintendo and MS really wanna pay their rival millions in licensing fees? Would Sony license the tech to rivals without charging so much it isn't worth the candle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 About 10-15 years after their DVD patent expiring n about 30 years after their CD patent expiring. I never understood why it took until this gen for it to become a sticking point that it was Sony* who owned the tech used for the discs. I'd guess the HD-DVD. But that was a rivalry with Toshiba, nothing at all with MS** n Nintendo. Not like MS don't license part of it out so that their OS can work with blu-ray discs. p.s did no one raise an eyebrow this week to "Father of the CD, ex Sony CEO passes away" headlines? *Sony n Phillips to be more accurate. **MS did have thier hands in the DVD format though. They and other tech companies boycotted the multiple proto-DVD formats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Oh yeah if a single 8th gen consoles comes out with a DVD drive.... Blu-Ray or bust. When does Sony's patent expire? Do Nintendo and MS really wanna pay their rival millions in licensing fees? Would Sony license the tech to rivals without charging so much it isn't worth the candle? Sony are not the only ones who own the tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Oh yeah if a single 8th gen consoles comes out with a DVD drive.... Blu-Ray or bust. When does Sony's patent expire? Do Nintendo and MS really wanna pay their rival millions in licensing fees? Would Sony license the tech to rivals without charging so much it isn't worth the candle? Sony are not the only ones who own the tech. But the way patents work is that you have to get license permission from every patent holder. Fortunately there is a Blu-Ray licensing group that all the patent holders put together. The prices are pretty crazy, though, compared to DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I think people make a bigger deal of the Sony v. MS thing than is really justified. Both companies are much more than console producers. Hell, I remember not too long ago MS was using Sony Viao laptops in its Windows 7 commercials. Even if MS ends up not using bluray in the 720 I really doubt it will have much if anything to do with the fact that Sony has a stake in bluray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Even if MS ends up not using bluray in the 720 I really doubt it will have much if anything to do with the fact that Sony has a stake in bluray. Agreed. Unless they pay to be part of an up and coming format like they did with HD-DVD the reasons they won't use BD ROM are going to be something like "proprietary" or "download only" or "costs too much so every game requires 4 DVDs and a PC-like install unless you download it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I think people make a bigger deal of the Sony v. MS thing than is really justified. Both companies are much more than console producers. Hell, I remember not too long ago MS was using Sony Viao laptops in its Windows 7 commercials. Even if MS ends up not using bluray in the 720 I really doubt it will have much if anything to do with the fact that Sony has a stake in bluray. My original post was based on outdated information; last time I checked, there wasn't an association handling all Blu Ray tech licensing, but that was more than a year ago. MS (and those publishing games for MS's next platform) would just have to pay the Blu-Ray, uh, consortium its regular prices. I bet it would be worth it so as not to be left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm sure it's not the licensing fees that has MS worried. Odds are that Sony is giving up on proprietary tech like the Cell processor and will probably go the x64 route this time and even be supporting MS Direct X. Either way MS and Sony are going to be sharing tech. I think the issue is that MS won't get any money if you buy BD movies so they don't care to include that functionality. They do however, make money when you download a movie through their zune service so they're got a stake in not including a blu-ray in the new xbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 X64? I assume you meant X86? Which I strongly doubt. The wrong kind of architecture for consoles. They'll be on PowerPC n the like for a while. OpenGL still working well for them and everyone else who isn't MS. Free too. I also doubt MS will even license that one out. Means they have to support another platform. Even if they get paid for it, it's not worth it. And the tactic of keeping out blu-ray in favour of zune movies is if the market for zune movies is big enough to cover the devs hating on you forever for sticking with DVD(cos I strongly doubt MS will go the propriety route.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 It's really quite a shame that a vast majority of PC gamers can't even use their hardware properly because most games they're playing on it are still optimized for hardware from 2005. See, I actually kind of like this, because it means I can run everything on highest detail settings at 1920x1080 with 16xQ CSAA and 16x AF. I loves me some antialiasing and filtering. That is true. It's the very nice silver lining that I can't deny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 X64? I assume you meant X86? Which I strongly doubt. The wrong kind of architecture for consoles. They'll be on PowerPC n the like for a while. OpenGL still working well for them and everyone else who isn't MS. Free too. I also doubt MS will even license that one out. Means they have to support another platform. Even if they get paid for it, it's not worth it. And the tactic of keeping out blu-ray in favour of zune movies is if the market for zune movies is big enough to cover the devs hating on you forever for sticking with DVD(cos I strongly doubt MS will go the propriety route.) I think MS will suck it up and do Blu Ray. the data capacity disparity between Blu Ray and DVD already fucks with multiplat development. The lower capacity of the DVD may indeed even become a graphics-quality bottleneck if these new consoles can deal with complex and big textures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Well, then there is the perception of being big and clunky with needing multiple disks. Its just odd in this day and age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 X64? I assume you meant X86? Which I strongly doubt. The wrong kind of architecture for consoles. They'll be on PowerPC n the like for a while. OpenGL still working well for them and everyone else who isn't MS. Free too. I also doubt MS will even license that one out. Means they have to support another platform. Even if they get paid for it, it's not worth it. And the tactic of keeping out blu-ray in favour of zune movies is if the market for zune movies is big enough to cover the devs hating on you forever for sticking with DVD(cos I strongly doubt MS will go the propriety route.) well, X86-64 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64 The point of the xbox was to run a windows kernel and launch APIs like Direct X from it hence the name "Direct X box". This is why most games on the Xbox are quickly and easily ported to the PC and why you see the PS3 getting the crappy ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/167696/Devs_hope_for_more_freedom_on_nextgen_consoles.php Or longer article: http://gamasutra.com/view/feature/167557/what_game_devs_want_from_nextgen_.php I think a few of them will have to just continue hoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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