PC Gaming vs Console Gaming

[RockyRan]

Just want to throw into the mix that console gaming is getting increasingly less accessible. These days I can't pop in a new PS3 game without getting a damn "UPDATE NAO LOLZ" splash screen followed by 10 minutes of NOT playing the game I just bought.

Wait, wait, wait...

 

It's difficult to:

1) Insert disc

2) Push a button to accept update

3) Sit for three minutes as the console downloads and installs the update

4) Play the game

 

That's all I did when inFAMOUS 2 had "Update 1.01" upon insertion. It was truly difficult on my end. Then again, who am I to judge when I know there are people who can't run a System Update, even when the console itself tells them to update and where to update.

 

Way to miss the point. My point is that it's no longer about "just pop in the disc and play" that a lot of PC naysayers like to say. The point is that gaming consoles are getting increasingly more complex to the point where you have to wait several minutes (and in some cases upwards of an hour) to boot up the game you just bought, not to mention whatever happens when the console isn't connecting online for some dumb reason (which has happened more often than I would like it to) or you get an RROD.

 

Like I said, the days of "pop game in, play" are over for consoles. I don't find consoles to be any less of a hassle than the PC.

 

Oh please, a game getting a patch is hardly "complex." You sit there and the game fixes itself. If your console isn't online, you don't receive the patch and you play. However, you run the chance of playing a buggy/terrible version of the game.

 

Yeah, we're past "pop-in and pray" that version 1.0 you purchased works out of the box. Now we're at a better state where things can be fixed. No, now we're at "pop-in, (possible patch), and play." I don't have to do anything else besides wait a few minutes.

 

And an hour? What cases are these? Never have I had to wait even half an hour for a patch to download and install.

 

The hour-long updates happened in 4 cases. Once for Burnout Paradise's first bootup, once for LBP's first bootup, once for ModNation Racers first bootup, and once for a random security update for when I was trying to do the MNR update. The last one was cumbersome in particular because it was actually taking OVER an hour to download a measly 250+ MB update for absolutely no reason, and to "keep things simple" the PS3 doesn't say at what rate you're downloading when updating. In fact, I couldn't tell at all what the problem was because the console told me nothing. Reconnecting did nothing, and testing the connection on the console yielded a perfectly normal download rate. Had to try a solid 3 times to update before giving up, grabbing a thumbstick, downloading the update through the website on my PC, and using THAT to update. It was completely ridiculous.

 

So no, don't tell me it's simple enough. There's problems and it's possible to have problems. I'm not saying anything about it being difficult, I'm just saying it's not at all "pop in and play" like you're trying to make it out to be.

Edited June 9, 2011 by RockyRan

[deanb]

I'll answer that question with another: How often were games perfect in the older consoles though? There were problems, but the result usually was, "this game is crap" instead of "what can be fixed." Pretty much black and white, and if a game had glitches, bugs, and all manner of errors, it was always going to be a crap game.

 

I'm finding it hard to believe that somehow playing games on consoles are too complex. Yes, they've advanced and I don't simply put in a plastic cartridge now. However, can't the same be said for PCs? That it has evolved beyond simply putting a couple of floppy disks into a drive? At the same time, are people really scratch their heads and thinking, "A menu has popped up; WHAT DA HELL DO I DO?"

 

I'm going to verify, just for safety, that I'm not anti-PC or some load. I have a Steam account, even if no one has added me yet (aside from P4, that gentleman).

 

Still, if kids still within their first decade are jumping on these consoles, there can't be some almighty barrier of complexity. Heck, I know there was just talk about cable connections to televisions and consoles, but matching holes and color seems more simple than it was connecting this punk to the family's 80's television.

 

 

Well just to keep the chain going:

How many modern games that are crap get fixed with the patches though, as opposed to removing the bugs of an early launch?

(but seriously though, answering a question with a question is a bad move generally. Also you never answered how many old games had bugs)

 

And we're not saying it's "too complex" or anything like that. Just it's not the simple plug n play of days of yore. It's not too complex, but it is more complex than days gone by. Also you're really stretching back now. Days of putting a floppy disk was almost before consoles, days of being able to put a DVD in a console n play was barely 5 years ago. They days of floppys was days of C64 n such, when PC's were built the way consoles are now. Console gamers can supposedly redeem DLC n MP codes, line up games on Gamefly, n movies on netflix, calibrate a Wiimote, install new hard disks, set-up Wi-fi, etc. But buying and playing a game on Steam isn't a piss easy task?

 

I get Saturines point that Steam isn't the be all and end all, but it is currently a (conservative) 30%+ of the PC market, and has a pretty huge chunk of games. Unless you're using Linux (in which case fuck off saying PC gaming is too bothersome for you), it's on all platforms. It's simple to use, it will tell you if it supports controller, it doesn't tell you if your PC will run the game, but CYRI does.

[CorgiShinobi]

EDIT: In response to RockyRan, not Dean.

 

Bad luck?

 

LittleBigPlanet did not take that long for me, at all. I would have remembered the longest game update on the PS3 if it happened for me. See, for me, it has always been "pop-in and play." There's an update, but it's never a pain. I've never had connection issues with patches, and the only times downloads will take an incredibly long time to, you know, download is when I'm getting something from the PSN Store, not patches.

 

Want to know what connection issues I have had? With Steam.

 

It has only happened twice and so I'm not angry about it, but it was bothersome. I couldn't play Half-Life 2 because my Steam account couldn't login. I wasn't sure if it was my Internet connection, Steam updating, or there was maintenance. Heck, I didn't think I would need to be logged in to play any of my games from Steam.

 

I had a fellow gamer, who does play a lot on PC, help and she wasn't sure what the hell was wrong. Eventually I got through, but something definitely was wrong for a while.

 

This is my experience, and that is why I'm baffled by the idea that downloading a patch is "complex." That something that finds an update, for itself, downloads, and installs by itself makes for a not simple procedure. Maybe if we were grandmas who paid Best Buy to "install new firmware" I would agree, but that's not the case.

 

FYI, I'm not trying to imply Steam is inferior, but we can't act like there are not issues with the service. Maybe I'm a "noob" when it comes to Steam, but maybe that's because it's "too complex" for me or something. I dunno, I don't think too good, sir.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Atomsk88

[RockyRan]

Well, that's the thing. I haven't had very many issues with Steam at all. Nothing really comes out at me, except those times there's a really hot sale and download rates are low. My experience with PC games goes: "buy game, download it, boot it up, get to playing". No issues.

 

But that's my point. The experiences are interchangeable at this point. Like Dean says, I find it hard to believe that a console gamer can redeem codes, troubleshoot for online problems, download/manage DLC, calibrate controllers, etc., yet look at the PC and say NUUU THIS IS TOO HARD!! It's not "complex" in an absolute sense of the word, but yes it IS MORE complex than it was before. It's not difficult, but it's not any less difficult than dealing with consoles and whatever capricious problems they like to bring up, just like PCs when they have capricious problems they like to bring up. Let's not forget about botched releases like Test Drive Unlimited 2 and issues like the PSN outage. Like I said, the days of "pop in and play" are gone. I'm not saying it's incredibly complicated, but neither is the PC. The people who tend to overplay the "PC gaming issues" are generally people who just hear things and assume that's the case for everyone. Go to PS3 or 360-related help boards and if you didn't know any better you'd probably think the same way as well of the consoles.

[CorgiShinobi]

Well just to keep the chain going:

How many modern games that are crap get fixed with the patches though, as opposed to removing the bugs of an early launch?

(but seriously though, answering a question with a question is a bad move generally. Also you never answered how many old games had bugs)

 

And we're not saying it's "too complex" or anything like that. Just it's not the simple plug n play of days of yore. It's not too complex, but it is more complex than days gone by. Also you're really stretching back now. Days of putting a floppy disk was almost before consoles, days of being able to put a DVD in a console n play was barely 5 years ago. They days of floppys was days of C64 n such, when PC's were built the way consoles are now. Console gamers can supposedly redeem DLC n MP codes, line up games on Gamefly, n movies on netflix, calibrate a Wiimote, install new hard disks, set-up Wi-fi, etc. But buying and playing a game on Steam isn't a piss easy task?

 

I get Saturines point that Steam isn't the be all and end all, but it is currently a (conservative) 30%+ of the PC market, and has a pretty huge chunk of games. Unless you're using Linux (in which case fuck off saying PC gaming is too bothersome for you), it's on all platforms. It's simple to use, it will tell you if it supports controller, it doesn't tell you if your PC will run the game, but CYRI does.

First off: No, I'm not saying PC gaming is bothersome. I'm arguing how one could conceive patching as, well, Rocky says it's "not simple," so what am I suppose to get from that? Isn't the opposite of simple "complex?" If it isn't simple, and it isn't complex, what is it? Luke warm?

 

I was comparing plastic with plastic, and I'm aware of CD-ROMs and etc. Believe it or not, I did play PC games before I had an Nintendo 64. Maybe they weren't quality titles, but I was a kid after all.

 

Are console gamers required to pre-order games to redeem DLC codes? Do they need to use Gamefly? Do they need to use Netflix on a console? Are console gamers the only ones who use Wi-Fi? Don't PC gamers use Wi-Fi too? Doesn't Nintendo hold everyone's hand enough where they can have the knowledge to calibrate a Wiimote.

 

Yes, hindsight wise it is impressive to see how far consoles have become technologically, but we're also how old ourselves in 2011? I can safely say a 12 year-old would know more about current technology than when I was a 12 year-old. Don't underestimate a younger generation's ability to perceive and operate all this new technology. While I had to learn about dial-up and RF switches, kids now a days have Wi-Fi or 3G/4G with 3D technology via HDMI cables.

 

I'll say it clearly, again, I don't have anything against PC gaming and I'm not saying it's "so bothersome, I don't get it, oh help me, is it F5 that quick saves, what's quick load?!" Yet, I can't be the advocate for consoles when I find something ludicrous as stating the seemingly "it's not simple, but it's not complex" nature of a console patch?

 

EDIT: Maybe I entered the foray at the wrong time, but I just found the idea that you can't "pop-in and play" with consoles inaccurate. Even when PSN was down I could still play games, sans online functionality. There has never been a difficult moment (my experience, that is), and I'm not a genius myself.

 

And I hate to bring in Kotaku, but remember when Crecente's kid tricked him and his wife to play Call of Duty, even with all the parental restrictions. Kids are smart, and I think once you get use to something, it's a breeze. Time is the factor, but we all learn at different paces.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Atomsk88

[deanb]

There's a third option of "if it's not complex, and it's not simple" ; "It's not complex, and it's not complex". It's not a black n white option, there are shades of grey in the scale of usability. Rocket science and boiling water are not the only two levels of difficulty.

The patching method steam users are used to is just seeing "3 items complete" at the bottom of Steam. There' is zero input required, it's all automated. When you go to play a console game and have to wait for it to patch up for 10 minutes, it's not fun. (It does let you squeeze in some frozen synapse though).

Regardless of simplicity console patching is still amazingly annoying n infuriating and is the spanner in any argument of consoles being plug n play. Modern consoles are not in anyway shape or form plug and play and stating as such nowadays would be an out right lie.

 

If the console gamer wants to play online, then yeah there's a decent enough amount of console games these days that require you to redeem a code. We have a thread dedicated to those games. And while they don't need to use NEtflix, both Sony n MS have made it a big point to highlight that a fair chunk of console time is spent on Netflix. Sony even used it as a bullet point at their E3 Keynote. Yes PC gamers owners* use Wi-Fi. And no, Nintendo don't hand hold you in calibrating your Wiimote. Maybe on initial boot, but after that your on your own.

 

I can safely say I know many absolutely moronic 16 year olds. Also don't underestimate that it's the parent buying and setting up all this new technology. 12 year olds may be able to play it, but they sure as hell can't afford it.

 

 

 

*this is another issue. If just you own a PC you're able to do quite a few things, but suddenly when it's for the purpose of PC gaming they're suddenly complex tasks in the way. Hooking up Wi-fi, running AV, updating Windows, etc. They're all things you need to do whether you're intending to play BF3 or not.

I always thought it odd my mum hated using the red button, but could set up her VCR to record like a weeks worth of shows fine. And use Ceefax n Teletext. It's just cos it was "digital" it became hard. It's all it is, there's nothing hard about a fair chunk of stuff, people just assume, or because it's "technology" it's obviously hard n requires a degree to use it.

 

 

edit: just going off track a bit: I'd say one of my appeals with PC gaming is I can go from facebook or whatever and boom I'm now gaming. there's no setting up, unravelling/charging controllers (okay on some games), no waiting for updates. If you're wanting to play online just click their name n poof you're in their server (whereas consoles tend to work the opposite, requiring you be invited in)

It's kinda nice to go "I want to game" n seconds alter being in a game.

 

[Yantelope]

 

Still, if kids still within their first decade are jumping on these consoles, there can't be some almighty barrier of complexity. Heck, I know there was just talk about cable connections to televisions and consoles, but matching holes and color seems more simple than it was connecting this punk to the family's 80's television.

 

 

hahaha! I remember coming home with my N64 and freaking out because it didn't have an RF adapter. We thought for sure we weren't going to be able to play but thankfully we found out we could run it through the inputs in the VCR. That would have been an awful day too because N64s were super hard to find for a while.

[CorgiShinobi]

I find it annoying when Team Fortress 2 always has to validate when I boot up Steam. I always get the "Finished downloading" notifications. I don't know why it does that, and I've looked into it and I've found "frozen updates" and other topics. I'm guessing that's normal?

 

As for Online Pass, DLC from stores, and anything code related; well, I've found that there are instructions on the same piece of paper. The only confusing code I've ever received was the Portal 2 bonus codes which required you to push Triangle at the co-op menu to enter the code in-game. Everything else has been "Go to PSN Store, blah blah."

 

Also, if you want to use Netflix on consoles, you use the PC as well to setup the connection. Oh boy, using two devices for one service! It's not like the instructions on the television are vague.

 

And see, anyone who has a PC, or Mac, or smartphone, or any frickin' device with Wi-Fi should be able to handle consoles too in regards to Wi-Fi. It's not like Wi-Fi alters itself into a separate technology on consoles.

 

Yes, I think it would be common sense that parents purchase the devices, but if it's strictly for the kid, that kid will spend the most time with it and learn about it the most. Does every parent that buy a cellphone or handheld gaming device know how it works? No, but I'm sure the kid who has sunk days into it can tell you how to turn it on, select a game, run an application, and knows all sorts of shortcuts.

 

Like I said, time is a large factor. If people take time to read, the information is there and it's not complex. The Wii has "calibration" in its manual. I should know, I read that thing Day One.

[deanb]

And now you're arguing that these tasks are fine on PC. Not even as things related to PC gaming. We have now kinda come full circle and to the point I'm not sure you know where your stance is.

 

Just to clarify:

Our point: Consoles are not as simple as they once were, PC gaming is not as complex as it once was.

 

Your point: Wi-fi is the same as it is on PC as it is on console. DLC codes are redeemed on the store.

 

Our point: So if it's fine to do Wi-Fi and calibrating controllers n such on console, is it supposedly hard to set up wi-fi on a PC and plug in a joypad? Also it's easy to redeem codes n unlock the rest of your game, but not so when buying a game through DD services on PC.

 

They're on parity. Console is no more easier or simpler than PC, and PC is no more harder than console.

[Yantelope]

I can't argue with the PC gamers, I am one. I'm just trying to explain to you that people love simplicity. They love to do as little work as possible. I'm fairly certain that with minimal effort anyone could be a PC gamer. With minimal effort anyone could use a regular MP3 player too but iPod destroyed everything because it was so easy and so stylish. Console games are like that. A guy who wants to play Madden is going to sit down on his Xbox because it's what's hip and he doesn't have to exert himself at all (and madden isn't on PC anymore). I get the arguments that PC gaming isn't really that inaccessible or expensive, but the fact is that it takes slightly more work and it's slightly more expensive to start off and for a lot of people that makes all the difference.

[CorgiShinobi]

And now you're arguing that these tasks are fine on PC. Not even as things related to PC gaming. We have now kinda come full circle and to the point I'm not sure you know where your stance is.

 

Just to clarify:

Our point: Consoles are not as simple as they once were, PC gaming is not as complex as it once was.

 

Your point: Wi-fi is the same as it is on PC as it is on console. DLC codes are redeemed on the store.

 

Our point: So if it's fine to do Wi-Fi and calibrating controllers n such on console, is it supposedly hard to set up wi-fi on a PC and plug in a joypad? Also it's easy to redeem codes n unlock the rest of your game, but not so when buying a game through DD services on PC.

 

They're on parity. Console is no more easier or simpler than PC, and PC is no more harder than console.

See, I've said it before numerous times, but...

 

My only point has been about the patching system and my stance on the terminology of "plug-n-play" or what have you.

 

I have never tried to convince the masses that PC gaming is really hard. If I can do it (I've stated I'm not a genius, right?) than it's not rocket science. I have said Steam isn't perfect, and it has given me problems, but I believe I used it in my argument to balance out Rocky's bad experiences with my bad experiences.

 

Really, are you perhaps reading too much into my defense of patching on consoles as a subtle jab at PC gaming? I know there's a lot of bull when thrown around online, etc and etc. Still, I believe I can stand up for a console as well as a PC in this thread.

 

Perhaps all this time we've been fighting two separate battles, eh?

 

Of course, I think consoles have "advanced" and PCs have "simplified" or "streamlined" rather than one is "hard" and the other is "simple." That's all dependent on the individual. Rocky found it harder than I did to update on the PS3, but I've also had issues with Steam whereas he has had, I guess, a very joyful experience.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Atomsk88

[deanb]

But it doesn't take slightly more work and it isn't more expensive though.

 

Right I need a case study to do the maths. I want someone who is primarily/only a console gamer n to know:

• What their PC is/how much it cost
• What (7th gen) console(s) they own
• What games they own
• What extra services they use (XBL/PSN+)
• maybe some other stuff.

 

 

edit: he didn't find it hard, he found it long and annoying. Waiting for an hour isn't hard. He did state due to the simplicity of it there was no way at all to troubleshoot it himself. Which in actuality meant it kinda was more hard because you have no idea what is going on. Unlike Steam which when it shits the bed knocks out a MiniDump. So if you know your stuff you can sort it out. But on console if it's broken, you're fucked either way.

 

And how can PC be "simplified" but not "simple" . And just to repeat. We're not saying they're hard. We're not saying you need a degree to use them. We're just saying they're not as simple as they used to be. Not being simple =/= hard.

Yes hard and simple are opposite, but just because I have something that-is-not-blue, doesn't mean it-is-yellow. All it means it is not blue.

[P4: Gritty Reboot]

Plus, don't know if it's been mentioned, but games are much cheaper.

 

And PC games are a lot cheaper than console games. If you buy 10 new games a year, thats 100$ difference there. That's a new gpu. Or RAM. Or whatever.

 

 

No I don't think it has been mentioned

Ahahahaha. I didn't see the new page had started.

[CorgiShinobi]

he didn't find it hard, he found it long and annoying. Waiting for an hour isn't hard. He did state due to the simplicity of it there was no way at all to troubleshoot it himself. Which in actuality meant it kinda was more hard because you have no idea what is going on.

Okay, right there. He didn't find it hard because it isn't hard, but it kinda is hard.

 

After talking about having to locate the update online and use a USB drive, and so forth, I'm sorry if the impression I got was that the process was "hard."

 

And how can PC be "simplified" but not "simple."

You can make something simpler, or easier to use, but it doesn't make the task/technology/object actually simple. You can simplify the rules of soccer, but it doesn't make the sport easier. You can download a game through Steam easily, but the configuration of a PC game may not be as simple.

 

Simplified

[deanb]

Process of updating is not hard.

Finding out what was wrong (because he acknowledges his experience wasn't the norm and something was afoot) was hard. Well in fact it's not hard it's actually completely n utterly impossible. Since consoles give very little feedback on things like this and don't knock out minidumps.

 

So we're at least on the same page with the simple/hard/gradients there-in stuff now then?

(btw none of your examples work, given football is skill based unlike using tech, and the install process for Steam client and the config settings of a game are two different things)

 

Anyway I'm off to bed.

[CorgiShinobi]

(btw none of your examples work, given football is skill based unlike using tech, and the install process for Steam client and the config settings of a game are two different things)

 

Anyway I'm off to bed.

Alright, how about downloading Steam is easy, but configuring the options of the service is not as easy because you've got to know what any of them means, or something? You still got what the definition I used meant.

 

Have sweet dreams, and I hope it's not hard for you to get some rest so that way it will be easier to wake up tomorrow morning and not have a difficult morning and INSERT ITALICIZED WORD HERE.

[Battra92]

I can't argue with the PC gamers, I am one. I'm just trying to explain to you that people love simplicity. They love to do as little work as possible.

 

Or in my case, I update BIOS, change video cards, tweak drivers and run installs / patch updates from 8-5 every day. When I get home I'd like to just put in the disc and have Mario come on the screen.

 

With minimal effort anyone could use a regular MP3 player too but iPod destroyed everything because it was so easy and so stylish.

 

My brother has a 4GB Sansa Clip he got on Woot for $25. I actually find that easier to use than an iPod but I get your point. :-)

 

Console games are like that. A guy who wants to play Madden is going to sit down on his Xbox because it's what's hip and he doesn't have to exert himself at all (and madden isn't on PC anymore).

 

I think Madden not being on PC also shows that there are certain demographics to gaming. Certain types of people will play console games and others will play PC games.

 

On a side note, I'm still looking at a budget on upgrading my PC so I'm certainly not anti-PC, I just lean more console for my personal choice.

[deanb]

Alright, how about downloading Steam is easy, but configuring the options of the service is not as easy because you've got to know what any of them means, or something?

 

But Steam doesn't really have any configuration. At most it asks you how fast your net connection is when you install it. Which given you're paying for your net connection should be easy enough to know.

 

Just kinda feel like it's stabbing in the dark a bit.

[P4: Gritty Reboot]

PC gaming is easier, simpler, and cheaper than ever before. Is it as "simple" as hooking up an Xbox? Probably not, but it's close. At the same time, console gaming, as a result of taking on many features PCs have had for ages, such as updates, patches, online play, HD graphics, local storage, etc., has gotten more complex and costly than ever before. At this point it almost seems that consoles offer very little advantage over PCs while having taken on some of their rougher edges.

Edited June 9, 2011 by P4: Man of the Cloth

[Yantelope]

I disagree that consoles have gotten more difficult to use. It's still just as easy as plugging it in, turning it on and playing the game. If you bother to go online you're going to need a few more clicks but there's still no requirement to take any console online unlike PCs.

[deanb]

There's no "requirement" for PC's to be online either.

[Cyber Rat]

Sadly, since the popular belief is that PC = Steam now, I can see where Yant is coming from.

[Yantelope]

No, but most games on PC these days require internet activation.

[RockyRan]

No, but most games on PC these days require internet activation.

 

Only the ones with shit DRM and multiplayer games. The vast majority of single-player games can still be played online.

 

Anyway, I feel like we're going in circles here, so I'll just leave it at this crude chart.

 

 

The PC is not hard, consoles are not hard. But the PC has gotten far easier to deal with and consoles have gotten a bit harder to deal with. My amount of "hassles" with a PC is just about equivalent as my amount of "hassles" with a console (that is to say, it doesn't happen often at all). Try to argue 'till your blue in the face, this is what I think and that's that.

[Yantelope]

I'd say that gap is slightly wider, but not much. I'd also argue that that slight gap is enough to turn a lot of people off to PC gaming.