TheMightyEthan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 It definitely seemed like they were foreshadowing that. And Sam's reassurances I'm sure would have sounded almost like permission to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Yeah, episodes like that remind me why I watch the show in the first place. Very well done. While watching the last two episodes this season, it felt like I was following a soap opera, not an HBO-class fantasy show. (Which was how I felt for 70% of my time reading the books. Soap opera-nation.) Anybody get weird Witcherey vibes when the Wraith horsemen appeared at the top of the cliff? I was watching it with four people who haven't played The Witcher 3, so they all were really weirded out when I whispered, "... The Wild Hunt..." Edited June 2, 2015 by kenshi_ryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 tl;dr High points for me: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Haha. Ethan that's brilliant. Loads of those are great. "Sexy Jesus" I'm guessing those have been done for every episode. Must find out. Anybody get weird Witcherey vibes when the Wraith horsemen appeared at the top of the cliff? I was watching it with four people who haven't played The Witcher 3, so they all were really weirded out when I whispered, "... The Wild Hunt..." Well, The Wild Hunt remind me of Ringwraiths anyway. All roads lead to Tolkien. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Haha. Ethan that's brilliant. Loads of those are great. "Sexy Jesus" Yeah, I would have put more but I figured I was starting to push it with how many I could call the high points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I finally muscled in the effort and did a marathon of 2-8. It was great. As a continuous whole, it was fine but I can see why people bitch at the weaker of the individual episodes. To be honest, I have some issues with the episode 8 but it's more to do how I perceive the different motives of certain factions between the show and the books. I can't help but feel that next season will be a filler season of sorts (think how ADWD takes place along side with AFFC), at least for the first couple episodes. They've been mentioning bits and pieces of an important background, from what I recall, a few seasons already. They just never really put it out in the open. It's maddening. Anyhow, this coming Sunday will be nice. I'll miss the finale in a week since I'll be TA'ing field camp in the Red Wastes... I hope it isn't too big or something totally out of the blue. I think all book readers will know the most probable ending for episode 10. It's just the stuff before that... unless they pull it off in episode 9. I wonder if we'll get to this... That part was such horseshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 That part was such horseshit. Apparently I was the only one who saw her kill a shitload of zombies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 And apparently the only one to miss her give up when faced with children zombies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 They don't show anyone else even having to deal with them besides extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Worst "Father Daughter Barbecue" ever p.s I'm still in Season 3, but TV is in the lounge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) After this episode... Fuck it. Shireen was Stannis' heir. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Edited June 9, 2015 by MaliciousH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 So, I've been idly assigning D&D alignments in my head to various characters from this show, and I had tentatively slotted Stannis in at True Neutral, but I think not so much anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Stannis is lawful evil. To be fair, his first scene in the show features him burning his other family members at the stake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I actually completely forgot about that. Why do you say Lawful? He assassinated his brother, which from my understanding would not have been the "correct" way to go about resolving their conflict. And he did it right after arranging peace talks with him. I would still say Neutral Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Funny that... Stannis follows the destiny/prophecy/whatever but Balon Greyjoy's still alive and kicking for all he knows. I guess, when you're that far gone, 2/3 ain't bad so far. The season's finally picked up and I'm interested for where things might go. People are saying Olly's gonna kill Jon Snow, which seems extreme considering how plot-armoured he's been, but then again no one in GoT is truly safe. Then there's the whole Stannis/Winterfell/Brienne situation And Arya's Creed is upping development. And what the hell they gonna do in Meereen now? ...and all that Dorne stuff can't have been for nothing. I wanna see more of that beautiful Sand Snake *ahem*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Yeah, Jon, Arya, and Tyrion are the only characters who I feel like might actually have a bit of plot armor, but even then I know that actually they probably don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Are you telling me that the man who took off the first joints of his friend and savior's fingers on his left hand because said friend and savior was also a smuggler is not lawful, Ethan? Interesting. "Lawful," in the terms of DnD pre-4th edition (which changed the alignment system and removed several alignments), is not just following promulgated laws, but believing in order over chaos. From Stannis's point of view, killing the pretender Renly was justified and, ultimately, lawful because Renly was in open rebellion against the rightful king; Stannis. Indeed, Stannis even worked within the confines of his religion to effectuate Renly's death without resorting to massive open warfare. There is great tension in Stannis between various sources of order and justice, though; this episode represents Stannis's embrace of the R'hllor as the source of order over traditional conceptions of familial loyalty (upon which, incidentally, he justified burning his 'disloyal' relatives at the beginning of the books/series). I don't recall if this is explicit in the show, but in the books he's described as the most "just" contender for the throne and Varys comments (to Ned, IIRC), that Stannis is a just man and that there is nothing half so frightening as a truly just man. As for other show versions of the characters; the Mountain, Ramsay and Joffrey are chaotic evil. Varys is lawful neutral, and so is Jorah. Roose Bolton, Theon, Littlefinger, and Tywin are neutral evil as all get-out. Cersei, Oberyn, the Sand Snakes, Rickon, Daario Naharis (maybe), Theon's sister, and Arya are chaotic neutral. Barristan,Jon Snow, Tommen, Robb and Ned are lawful good. Danaerys,and Tyrion (although weakly) are chaotic good, though there is an argument for Dany being neutral good. Jaime, Kevan Lannister, Maester Pycelle, Bronn, Margaery, the Queen of Thorns, The Hound, and Sansa are neutral. Bran and his cohorts are neutral good. The wights and White Walkers are chaotic evil. Renly may have been chaotic neutral or chaotic good, and Loras is lawful neutral or lawful good; I just don't know enough about their inner lives to tell if they're selfish or if they actually care about others. I believe Doran Martell and Mace Tyrell may both be lawful good, and Mace clearly has class levels in Bard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Okay, yeah, I always forget that "lawful" means "pro-order", and not "law-abiding". You've convinced me Stannis is lawful evil rather than neutral evil. I would have put Danaerys as neutral good, but otherwise I don't have any disagreements with what you said, with two caveats: I feel like it's hard to say with Sansa, because she's always put in situations where her immediate survival depends upon her acting a certain way, and she couldn't really hope to accomplish anything good by not acting that way, so it's hard to see what she would do when not quite so coerced. Similarly, I'm curious to see how your reasoning for Rickon, since we've seen so little of him, and almost none where he shows any agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Rickon is chaotic neutral because all little kids are chaotic neutral, is all. No real reasons beyond that. A scrupulously law-abiding individual would be lawful, but so would one who follows a set of rules (and expects others to follow the same set of rules) that compels him to break the law in whatever jurisdiction s/he finds him- or herself. That's why killing Renly would be a lawful act from Stannis's perspective; his religion more or less compelled him to do it. Sansa is iffy, I agree. She may be closer to neutral, but I think she values other people and generally tries to be good. This is colored by my understanding of book Sansa, since her chapters delve into her thoughts more than the show does. I think Danaerys could be neutral good, too; I just see her vacillating and second-guessing herself as chaotic qualities. I also think her drive to upend existing social order to be chaotic, too. Revolutionaries are often chaotic good, IIRC from my DnD days. Rulers who expect their subjects to act lawfully, or according to the rulers' edicts, but who make up the rules for themselves as they go along are chaotic, and I think Dany does this. If you read her actions in the last episode as essentially fleeing Meereen and her entourage, I think the case for chaotic good is even stronger. I think she thinks of herself as lawful good, though, more or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 On yeah, I would have put Sansa as neutral good, with the caveat that it's iffy, but in your first comment you grouped her in with the true neutrals, which is why I asked. And with Danearys, I agree she's not lawful, just doesn't seem to rise to the level of chaotic. Though that could change once we have a clearer picture of her actions after jumping on Drogon's (sp?) back. Also, it's clearly been too long since I played D&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Shireen Baratheon was doomed. Melisandre is legit (besides Balon still living, plothole...) most of the time, probably not about Stannis being Azor Ahai, but we've seen her fucking create a smoke baby out of her vagina, so if she says "I can break this storm" I believe her. If she didn't do that, Stannis' entire camp would have slowly starved/froze to death, eventually including Shireen. Or, they would have been captured by the Boltons where she would be raped / flayed. Burning her alive, was probably a mercy. If not for her, for all the men in Stannis' camp who would have surely died. Was it a tough decision? Yes. Would I have done it? No. Was Stannis wrong to? QUESTIONABLE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 You forget that Stannis had the option of retreating, which his Hand advised him to do. It was only his own lust for power and stubbornness that caused him to insist on remaining and pressing forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) First of, his hand, is Davos fucking Seaworth, show some goddamn respect you TV-only scum!!! Also, retreating? To where? They were snowed in both directions, there was about as much of a chance to get back to Castle Black as there was to get to Winterfell. Double-also, what will he do once he's stuck at Castle Black for what could be YEARS?! The Night's Watch don't have the supplies to cover themselves for the entire winter, never mind Stannis and his army. Never mind the fucking undead army that'll soon be pressing on The Wall. Does Stannis have a lust for power? To a degree, definitely. But he believes he's Azor Ahai reborn, he believes that only he can defeat the White Walkers and to do that he'll need the support of the entire realm. In his mind he NEEDS to be king. Unfortunately he's not Azor Ahai, that would be my boy Jon Snow. .....Or maybe Danny? Nah, it's Jon Snow (Targaryen). Book spoilers / episode 10: My boy Jon Snow who is about to meet a bamboozling..... a lethal bamboozling, courtesy of Olly. EDIT: Edited June 10, 2015 by The Cowboy Poet 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm terrible with names in visual media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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