Game of Thrones (Current episode spoilers)

[TCP]

IIRC only one of the Sand Snakes is Ellaria's daughter but yeah, they all suck.

 

 

Stannis is dead, Ramsey and Roose were talking about it in episode 1.
This season continues to move at a good pace. Jon getting resurrected and leaving the Night's Watch would have taken most of a season a year or two ago, now it's all wrapped up in three episodes. Hopefully Sansa gets there before he walks out the door.

Only half of the Tower of Joy scene was SUCH FUCKING BULLSHIT GAAAAAHHHHH! It was so good though. Even if Ned and Arthur weren't as sad about having to fight as they should have been, obviously the show can't get into all that backstory.
Summer's head didn't look as big as it should have been. The Umbers and the Manderley's are fiercely loyal to the Starks, so I'm betting it's a rouse. 

Jon won't ever be Jon Stark since his real father wasn't a Stark.

 

 

[Thursday Next]

 

He can be naturalised just like Ramsay Snow/Bolton was.
Stannis isn't dead till I see him dead, just like the Hound.
It was definitely Rickon. The wolf's head looked pretty big... but perhaps (hopefully) you're right about that despite being wrong about everything else.

 

[TheMightyEthan]

 

He can only be legitimized by the king though, and I doubt the Lannisters will be accommodating.  The other option of "oh hey I'm king, I hereby legitimize myself, thus legitimizing my claim to the throne" also doesn't seem like a very solid bet.

 

Which is not even to mention all the Northerners he will have pissed off by letting the Wildlings south of the Wall.

 

[Mister Jack]

 

I enjoyed seeing Olly's corpse. I don't care if he's a kid. Fuck him.

 

[Mr. GOH!]

 

I bet the Umbers have plans for Ramsey. Not pro-Ramsey plans, either.

 

[TCP]

 

Oh yeah the boy was definitely Rickon. I just don't think the Umbers are actually that upset about the Wildlings. It's not like the Wildling's Jon has let through are out raiding. Remember, Rickon went to the Umbers because they are so loyal to the Starks. So I don't think that's the actual Direwolf head. But who knows, maybe they sacrificed the dog.

I assume the rest of the Tower of Joy sequence will confirm R+L=J and they can find some sort of proof (maybe Rhaegar's harp?) like the direwolf head for Rickon that he is Rhaegar's son. Especially since Sansa or Rickon would be better heirs to Winterfell than Jon.

 

[Thursday Next]

 

Would they need more proof than a pregnant / recently given birth Lyanna saying that she was with Rhaegar by choice and Jon was their son before making Ned make his "promise" and taking a swan dive? Don't see the need for the harp since none of that is in the TV show that I recall.

 

[TCP]

 

I mean for like, other lords / people in the realm to believe that Jon is JT and not JS.

 

[deanb]

 

I'm yet to watch, it's viewing for later this day though I know one of the plot points (cos the "trending subreddits" gave a bit away, not that I mind). Anyway figured I'd share this.

[Mr. GOH!]

 

Except, TCP, Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and the North! Brothers before sisters, in the North. We're not talking about Old Godsless-Dorne, here.

We have no idea how good of a ruler Rickon would be.

Do we all think that the Greatjon Umber is even dead?

I wonder if Karstark has anti-Ramsey plans, too. But not pro-Rickon plans; just pro-Karstark plans.

 

[TCP]

 

I don't see Bran ever becoming an active member of society again. I know Bloodraven says he'll leave the tree cave, but I can't see him going and becoming a lord after all he's done and seen. 

 

[Hot Heart]

 

Do we all think that the Greatjon Umber is even dead?

 

 

 

As far as I know from the books, Smalljon died at the Red Wedding; yet here they've used him in the show. Couple that with the fact that the actor playing Greatjon won't be returning (not that that always stands in the way) even though last we saw he "left for a piss" at the Red Wedding (correction: that was Blackfish, but we don't see Greatjon die) and it suggests maybe they've switched things round between the two.

 

Something tells me the Umbers are really out to get revenge on the Freys and Boltons though. I might be a million miles away but there is that "The North remembers" threadline, plus the episode was called "Oathbreaker". The episodes tend to tie in thematically to their names in multiple places, and the fact that Smalljob refused to take an oath/swear allegiance might suggest something more there. I'm not 100% that the head was really a direwolf either...

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Hot Heart

[Mr. GOH!]

Great episode.

 

 

It's weird to me that Sansa is the kick in the ass Jon needs to get moving as the unifier of the North (maybe under a Queen Sansa?!?

Dany doesn't need anybody's help to take over all if the Dothraki, which is nice. But I do want Drogon to come back.

Tormund eyefucking Brienne was fantastic. Love at first sight.

RIP Osha. I do wonder if her quickness to try to murder Ramsay indicates a plot against him.

 

[TCP]

Holy fuck the pace that this season is moving, lightning quick.

[deanb]

I'm still a week behind

[Thursday Next]

Great episode.

 

 

It's weird to me that Sansa is the kick in the ass Jon needs to get moving as the unifier of the North (maybe under a Queen Sansa?!?

 

Dany doesn't need anybody's help to take over all if the Dothraki, which is nice. But I do want Drogon to come back.

 

Tormund eyefucking Brienne was fantastic. Love at first sight.

 

RIP Osha. I do wonder if her quickness to try to murder Ramsay indicates a plot against him.

 

 

 

A pity Osha wasn't quite quick enough. Can't help but feel that she got off lightly though. Can't wait to see what Jon Snow, Sansa and a wildling horde do to Ramsay.

 

Dany murdering the Dothraki leadership was nicely done, I hadn't expected that. Shades of the mad king? (Burn them all). Not sure what she'll think about Tyrion's politics. I don't think she's as pragmatic as him.

 

[deanb]

All caught up.

 

Definetly moving forward at a fair clip.

 

I think if Osha had managed there n then it would have all been a bit quick for Ramsay and I don't think he'd get off as lightly. I will note I think now we're off the books we're probably gonna see more "TV-like" plot so he's gonna be a bit fucked over for the "satisfaction". But it helps clear up the slight loose thread that was Osha, while slightly raising the stakes for Ramsey.

 

Yeah the ending was pretty solid, and we'd discussed it's strange she's not used that power much for a long while (like since end of series 1 really).

 

The bit where Davos is asking about Stannis and then Brienne comes along and all like "I executed him" was great.

 

Oh and it'll be more than Wildling under Jon Snow, it's gonna be the Vale coming up from the south too, so he's gonna be pretty fucked, and I think we'll see the North "stabilised" under Stark rule by end of this series. Given the fair clip I think overall we're gonna see things all pan out to have Starks in the north, Lannisters in the south, some minor fucking about in Dorne, and Danerys end up with a giant horde under her with Dothraki, Unsullied and likely most of slavers bay. Then for series 7 sees the final chess pieces move for a giant battle then "oh fuck the white walkers".

 

Rickon probably not gonna make it to the end of series 6 I think.

 

 

 

[FredEffinChopin]

 

I'm not at all ok with all of this wolf slaughter. I'm beginning to wonder what the hell they're even in the story for. It's like viewer abuse.

 

[Thursday Next]

 

I'm not at all ok with all of this wolf slaughter. I'm beginning to wonder what the hell they're even in the story for. It's like viewer abuse.

 

 

 

So we're down to Ghost and Nymeria then? I'm leaning towards thinking Shaggydog was delivered by the Umbers given how easily the rest are disposed of.

 

Oh, and #HoldTheDoor obviously.

 

[madbassman39]

 

Is Bran time traveling, or re-writing history, or is it a combination of both?

I did not expect to feel so bad for Hodor at all.

 

[Mister Jack]

 

H-hodor...

 

 

 

[Mr. GOH!]

 

   Farewell, Hodor. 

 

Great episode, although the confirmation of the theory that the White Walkers are weapons made by the Children of the Forest seemed a bit underwhelming. Sansa is a badass now, which is neat-o. I was kinda surprised she didn't order Brienne to kill LF then and there.

 

I wish Euron had the Dragonhorn. 

 

Where are Yara and Theon going with those ships?

 

Also, I'm glad the the Brienne/Tormund thing is ongoing.

 

[Mal]

Caught up.

 

Oh.

 

 

The more I think about Hodor, the more fucked up it is. Holy shit do I feel terrible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by MaliciousH

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, it just keeps getting darker the more I think about it.

[FredEffinChopin]

 

Great episode, although the confirmation of the theory that the White Walkers are weapons made by the Children of the Forest seemed a bit underwhelming.

 

 

 

 

Ok, rambling theory incoming, and I apologize if it's a tired one that people have been kicking around for some time now on here or elsewhere:

 

I've been saying for quite some time now that I expect that we might find that the Lord of Light (or whatever responds to people who invoke that lord) is more of an actual character in this story than he/she/it (I'm going to refer to it as a "he" in this post) is given credit for. He exercises more agency than any single character in the series, not just with his actions in granting the wishes of a worshiper, but with his lack of action when he suddenly chooses not to, forcing the hands of numerous parties at once. After the most recent couple of episodes, I've become much more comfortable with this sort of nebulous theory I've been crafting.

 

The title "Song of Ice and Fire" I think usually evokes images of dragons and "The North," but if there is anything that represents fire more definitively than dragons and the woman who bore them in the center of a fire, it's the god with a penchant for nudging his followers to burn everything in sight that doesn't comport with the supposed agenda of the person doing the burning. The idea, when I first starting batting it around, is that the events that we see taking place are the byproduct of some sort of struggles between (for lack of a better term) feuding cosmic powers that exist in this world.

 

The appearance of the Children of the Forest may have changed dramatically from season 4, but the impression that I get from the last episode is that they possess a characteristic that has not changed at all since the flashback of them creating the first (or one of the first) whitewalker: They're pretty unsophisticated. They appeared timid and unsure in that flashback, and they appear that way in the present. Right now, as they work to undo the environmental crisis that they created while trying to address another environmental crisis (a great thematic backdrop, not just for the characters we've seen in play, but for the idea I'm pitching right now), they don't seem to have any ideas on how to do it, nor any means to do... well, anything except scrap with whitewalkers. The Three-Eyed-Raven holds the agency in that little community, and it's reasonable to guess that there was another party involved in the events that led to the creation of the whitewalker as well, which is to say that the Children may have been acting under false pretenses in the interest of who/whatever was providing them assistance with their human being dilemma.

 

While we still don't know what exactly the Raven is, it's safe to say that it maintained a fairly intimate connection not only with nature, but with time as well. Even the whitewalkers seemed to give pause before putting that ancient creature to rest, and the scene seemed to suggest (to me anyway) that there is history between those parties. Perhaps the Raven is a god itself, or was one. Or something close enough to one to be regarded as such.

 

Martin was good friends with one of my favorite authors, Roger Zelazny. There are some likely nods to Zelazny contained in GoT, and even more in the source novels as I understand it. The one that I imagine would stand out most noticeably to a Zelazny fan is the referenced deity that shares a name with one of Zelazny's novels, as well as with a character contained in that novel: Lord of Light. In Lord of Light, Zelazny implicitly describes a world in which humans, originally from Earth, colonized a new planet, bringing with them some of the technology they knew from Earth. The first settlers in the story though, seem to have kept that technology to themselves, using it to pose themselves as gods to the inhabitants of the planet that descended from the original colonists. They took on the titles and attributes of Hindu gods mostly, save for Sam, the (protagonist) Lord of Light, who posed himself as the Buddha and as an accelerationist, meaning that he gradually broke from the god party and decided that their behavior in not only hording technology under the pretense of avoiding the chaos that might result of suddenly introducing wildly advanced technology to a primitive society, but in stamping out any new technologies that that society might develop, was not in any way rational, and was just a basis for a very exclusive group to be able to stay in power and comfort. Sam used his sham image as a God as well as his access to certain technologies to gain and manipulate followers to engage in a form of war against the other "gods" to remove them from their preserved positions of power. It's a fantastic novel that frequently demands that the reader consider the idea of "god" and what constitutes that for any particular faith or individual.  

 

It also represents some ideas that could be applied in the context of the GoT narrative if we replace technology with magic. A lot of the inhabitants of the GoT world (is there a name for the actual world? I don't even know) view magic as some sort of mythology, or a lost art at very best. When we look at some of the sources of magic's revival in the present time, such as the Raven grooming Bran for _____, or the rebirth of the dragons, which a LoL priestess is now attributing to her god's plan, it's easy to imagine a framework that parallels that of the novel Lord of Light to some extent.

 

There are other little notes and ideas that might be worth mentioning and theorizing on, but this is a bit long, and I don't want the wheels to fall off entirely as I try to flesh out a couple of more detailed possibilities that involve the interests of the Lord of Light. I just wanted to get the basics out there and see if anyone thinks that idea has any validity whatsoever. Without any external input, I'm starting to expect that the nature of the war we're expecting (whitewalkers v. humans, the end) might be dramatically different than all that. Maybe someone here can step on or build on that idea.

 

Another Zelazny side note:

Before knowing of their friendship or seeing a single episode of the show, peoples' descriptions of it to me often reminded me of Zelazny, and his Amber series in particular, which contained a royal family in a constant state of vendetta, both among themselves and with other families/groups. There were different lineages within that main family, and distinct physical characteristics that made those lines appear distinct from the others (Failella's children were the redheads, etc.). That series also came in the form of a narrative that followed individuals who were caught up in perpetual conflict, which the reader follows closely, up until a point late in the series where we discover that these characters are largely being used as pawns in a larger game being played among what could be called "gods," or certainly forces of creation. Anyway, I'll stop squeezing this reply window to death now.