Thursday Next Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Reveal hidden contents Cersei's claim is the 8ft tall invincible golem standing right next to her. That and being just about the last highborn person left in King's Landing. Everything is so nicely set up now. The King in the North, King's Landing, the Southern Alliance, the Eastern Fleet. Queen of Thorns was as brilliant as ever. Would love to see her and Lady Mormont together. They would rock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Reveal hidden contents I see. Guess she did in a way conquered the throne.One thing to also note is the other Queen's Guards. They might not be alive either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) I loved the finale, but Reveal hidden contents I feel like the increased speed of storytelling this season papers over the Story of Westeros during this chaotic time; how the wars and coming winter are riling up the smallfolk and minor lords. A theme int he books is showing how the machinations of the powerful affect the everyday people, usually in chapters during which the viewpoint character is traveling. I feel like the destruction of the Sept of Baelor and what appears to be a good chunk of the ruling class as well as the elimination of all the obvious heirs three major Houses (Tyrells, Baratheons, and Lannisters, and maybe the Freys, too; not sure if the show ever mentioned how many sons he had, but I'd imagine he had a few more spares) would throw much of middle Westeros into chaos as minor lords jockey to take advantage of the power vacuum. I guess Olenna has control of the Tyrells, but what happens to the House when she dies? Who the hell controls the Stormlands now that there are no legitimate or even putative Baratheons left? How is Cersei allowed to sit on the Iron Throne when she's an unwed, possibly no-longer fertile non-Baratheon who is not even the head of House Lannister? Presumably the Lannister troops answer to Jamie, not Cersei. Of all the constituent realms of Westeros, only the Vale has a ruler with a real legitimate and uncontroversial claim; even Jon is not the true heir to Winterfell, since he's not even Ned's kid. The political situation in Westeros is utter madness! It will be fun to see how Danaerys effects her invasion and takeover; Westeros is clearly primed for the stabilizing influence of a quenen with iron-clad convictions, a huge and unwaveringly loyal army, and three goddamned dragons. She has waaaay more military might at her disposal than Aegon did when he initially conquered Westeros (although I think Balerion was older and larger than Drogon). Edited June 27, 2016 by Mr. GOH! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Reveal hidden contents I was also wondering who would support Cersei's claim to the throne (besides possibly the King's/Queen's Guard). Jaime might, but after what happened with Tommen he very well might not. I would say that a couple houses would support her purely because they think they have something to gain, but at the same time if it looks like a losing cause then it starts looking like there's not much to gain. She may very well control King's Landing and not much else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Reveal hidden contents Cersei has zero legitimate claim other than she blew up the Sept of Baelor and has Zombie Mountain. Were the other Kingsguard (Queensguard, now, I guess) even present for her coronation? Everyone in in King's Landing has got to know this is a very unstable and untenable situation. I wouldn't be surprised if Dany's conquest of everything south of the Neck and the Vale of Arryn ends up being peaceful as minor lords flock to her for stability and relative sanity and also because they don't want to be incinerated by dragons. Danaerys's biggest problem (inttially) will be figuring out how to let the Dothraki down gently about the lack of pillaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Dammit Thursday got in before me with the IT Crowd reference. Anywho that's one hell of an episode. Reveal hidden contents Yeah in the crowning ceremony I was running it through my head on all the possible legitimacy of her reign, and really there's only the "Bigger Army" system sorta got going on. If you go off the British system, which I assume they're using, you go back up the chain through Tommen, up to Robert, then along to Stannis (dead, no living descendants*) then Renly(dead). Then you'd go up again, which I don't know enough about but I think somewhere along there it ends up with Neds sister? I imagine somewhere has a family tree that'd tell you the proper lineage. The marriage thing I've a feeling, even though they're technically...cousins..uncle n niece...something...it'll be Dany and Jon which'd unite "Fire and Ice" and King of the North n all that shit. At least if Tyrion is suggesting matches. On the King of the North front damn I'm liking that Mormont lass, she's great. Also House Glover guy was Percy from Blackadder so I can't take him seriously. I thought Lancel was gonna be like "poof" to blow the candle out and accidentally spark it off higher, or maybe grab one, burn hand or whatever, then other reaches bottom. Be a bit more dramatic at least. But yeah, we end this season with the kings all dead, Dany with her army and dragons, I imagine planning to beach head at Dorne, Jon with his seat in the North, word that some form of magic is what's keeping the dead beyond the wall which makes me think that yeah it'll be Bran that breaks that. Oh and Winter has arrived just as Sean Bean promised in all those memes. Probably actually won't take too long for Dany to end up on the throne, and then yeah "the great war". *Poor Ser Davos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Daaaaaaamn, that finale. Reveal hidden contents Some really nice direction in that final episode. The long shot of the candles by the wild fire and Tommen's "departure" for instance. The set up with "Arya" was nice too, especially since she was serving drinks like she did for Tywin way back when. Funnily enough, I think R + L = J was pretty much guaranteed, while I think the real "twist" is that R + L really did love each other. Anyway, outside of the Fire & Ice thing, I'm guessing Jon has some sort of claim to the throne? Also, dang, some people learned to teleport like crazy. And on that subject, Arya's arc is somewhat redeemed BUT IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. She is now beginning a Revenge Tour? Like the opposite of what Sexy Jesus was trying to instill?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 27, 2016 Report Share Posted June 27, 2016 Reveal hidden contents Arguably Jon's got a better claim to the throne than Dany, depending on the details of the succession rules, since he's the first born son of Dany's older brother. Though the fact that he's still a bastard would be a hindrance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) On 6/27/2016 at 8:47 PM, TheMightyEthan said: Reveal hidden contents Arguably Jon's got a better claim to the throne than Dany, depending on the details of the succession rules, since he's the first born son of Dany's older brother. Though the fact that he's still a bastard would be a hindrance. Actually, he'd be the second born son. Aegon, who's mother was a Martel, was killed with his sister by The Mountain. Though obviously he's a bit dead. Edited June 28, 2016 by The Cowboy Poet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Aside from Dany, Gendry probably has the best claim. He's the eldest (assuming any other survivors) natural born son of King Robert Baratheon. Someone (perhaps a Warden of the [Compass Direction]) could legitimise him as Roose did to Ramsay and Stannis proposed to do with Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredEffinChopin Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Reveal hidden contents Pardon me if I've said this already: It's way past the point that we deserve an explanation of how this wearing peoples' faces thing works. Is it enchantment, some sort of learned skill, or some combination of both? We've seen actual faces cut off and mounted, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that that is involved to some extent. What next, they attach a rubber band to the sides slip it over the face? Either way, it's a close race, but I think that baking Frey's sons into a pie and making him eat it before slitting his throat and watching him bleed out is the only act in the series that rivals the destruction of the sept in terms of how profoundly fucked up yet deeply satisfying at the same time it was to watch. Speaking of, a friend and I were talking about whether Cersei (Corleone) is likely to even give much of a damn that Tommen is dead. The kid didn't just hang her out to dry, he went and changes (presumably) very long-standing rules specifically so that they weren't available to her, and in a situation where the stakes, while never defined, were obviously very high. It seems that Cersei definitely underwent a change, but it's harder to tell if most of it took place while when Tommen betrayed her or when he killed himself. She's done though, by my estimation. She's not going to sit on the throne for long, which is a pity, as she actually looks pretty badass on it. Who knows what acts of god(s) will take place in a show like this, but barring any of that, I feel like Cersei's chapter is almost over, just a little before the larger story. I'm going to miss Margaery. She really was one of the best people you could pluck out of that gaggle of gangsters. She was as thirsty as the rest, but also one of the more compassionate of the cast of characters, and was a soft hand even with her scheming, and was becoming quite good at it at a young age. She'd have been a good queen, and the perfect antidote for the ten extra years it would have taken Tommen's balls to drop. Also I pity the chick getting wineboarded, and who appears to be beginning a sentence of getting stared down by The Mountain, point blank and with no helmet. Edited June 28, 2016 by FredEffinChopin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Reveal hidden contents Edited June 28, 2016 by Hot Heart 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 @Fred: I think it's magic, it's clearly a thing that exists given illusions, dragons, white walkers, warging, resurrection etc. Reveal hidden contents Though what Arya did didn't look anything like how the others had done it before. I imagine just a case of flawed special effects maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielpholt Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 In one episode we saw Varys travel from Mareen to Sunspear, and then back to Mareen. For a show that's so willing to ignore its own geography, that's almost impressive. Even Baelish can't compete with that level of globe hopping. Although I guess maybe Arya can. Totally ruined the one Arya scene from this weeks episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 I didn't catch Varys being back in Meereen, when did we see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielpholt Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 On 6/28/2016 at 12:22 PM, TheMightyEthan said: I didn't catch Varys being back in Meereen, when did we see that? Absolutely certain I saw him on one of Dany's boats. Behind Dany, standing next to Missandei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 He totally is. I imagine that was a massive continuity oversight. Though most of the "teleportation" is largely down to time, the show clearly has elements that aren't shown in chronological order but I doubt putting dates in would really fix things up. My understanding is Westeros and Essos are fucking massive, and while sorta based on UK n western Europe are about 10 times the scale. Some of the journeys from a to b would take weeks but it's presented in a manner that it takes only a few days. I think it took only a few episodes for the Greyjoy fleet to get from Iron Islands, which are on the west of Westeros, to the Free Cities in Essos for a stop and then on to Mereen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielpholt Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 On 6/28/2016 at 12:51 PM, deanb said: He totally is. I imagine that was a massive continuity oversight. Though most of the "teleportation" is largely down to time, the show clearly has elements that aren't shown in chronological order but I doubt putting dates in would really fix things up. My understanding is Westeros and Essos are fucking massive, and while sorta based on UK n western Europe are about 10 times the scale. Some of the journeys from a to b would take weeks but it's presented in a manner that it takes only a few days. I think it took only a few episodes for the Greyjoy fleet to get from Iron Islands, which are on the west of Westeros, to the Free Cities in Essos for a stop and then on to Mereen. Agreed, there's not much they can do with regards to travel in the world. They've already admitted that the show doesn't take place in chronological time, but as a book reader I can't help but wince a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredEffinChopin Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 On 6/28/2016 at 12:00 PM, deanb said: @Fred: I think it's magic, it's clearly a thing that exists given illusions, dragons, white walkers, warging, resurrection etc. Reveal hidden contents Though what Arya did didn't look anything like how the others had done it before. I imagine just a case of flawed special effects maybe? Yeah, no doubt, magic (with the component of actual human faces) but of what variety? We've not seen any secrets shared with her. It seems that one day she just grabbed a face off of the wall andx used it, and now that she's solo, she's still wearing new faces. Did she learn an incantation? Is it something she internalized? It's a huge move, and we've seen a character undergo training (or just learned) in using it, and we still have no idea what "it" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I don't think it's important, and think the show would be worse if it were explained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I think the Mereen storyline over the past few episodes has spanned at least six months. Plus, there were Tyrell and Martell ships in the fleet for that final shot; Varys likely came with them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I agree with Ethan, the mechanics of face changing don't bother me in the least. It's some sort of sorcery. Perhaps the faces are in the hall not to be worn as masks, but so that you can copy them? You could in theory just focus on someone's face and copy it. The faceless men use the faces as a way of making sure the face they wear isn't the face of someone who (a) they recently killed and so shouldn't be seen strolling around or (b) they might bump into on the street. It's like a database of face. A dataface. As for teleporting, yeah, they could have gone with "several weeks later", or some calendar reference on screen, but it'd break immersion a bit. It's not like we're watching 24. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) When I saw Varys in that final shot I figured the camera would pan around and reveal they were approaching King's Landing or Dragonstone. It was a little jarring but if Tyrell and Martell ships were there, the two fleets probably met up in Volantis or somewhere in the middle and departed back to Westeros together, so this wasn't Dany leaving Mereen like one would assume. Edited June 29, 2016 by The Cowboy Poet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbassman39 Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 You know what bothered me more than anything? While you're all worried about Varys and how he got on the boat, I'm sitting wondering how the Dothraki, who have never been on a boat before, are managing to sail a ship all by them selves. Its hard to sail a multi crew ship, not to mention how you tie knots and how much sail is needed to catch the right wind and speed. There should be at least a captain and first mate on that ship who are experienced enough to give the Dothraki direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Perhaps the iron born have been teaching them for weeks/months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.