TheFlyingGerbil Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Online didn't hurt the Wii any, in fact, the fact it didn't really have much only gaming probably made it more profitable as there wasn't a mass of infrastructure to support. Yeah there's more mobile competition, but the 3DS hardware is profitable again already, and sells at a faster rate than the DS did, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you is streets ahead of the PS Vita. It doesn't seem like there is too large an overlap of people who aren't buying handheld consoles because they have a smartphone, that seems to be eating more into browser gaming like farmville etc. Nintendo are more financially stable than Sony. Sony loses money like a crack addict from most of it's departments so I don't see how that's helping them. and sony mobile and windows phone (which I own and love, btw) are hardly setting the world alight. I don't know how Nintendo is going to price the Wii U, but it won't be with deep losses like the 360 and PS3 if they make a loss at all Judging by the specs. I genuinely don't understand why you would think they are going to fail other than it's what everyone seems to love saying - it seems to me far more appropriate to question the long term gaming future of the other two - Sony because it doesn't look like it could run a vicar's tea party successfully and MS because I genuinely don't feel it has any loyalty to gaming - if it could sell a media box like the apple TV to provide all it's services and get as deep a market penetration as the xbox I think it would drop the hassle of the gaming side of it's living-room TV presence like a flaming bag of dog turd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 How have they not rectified it? Launch titles like Pikmin aside, by all accounts Wii U will have better and more robust online play and features than the Wii did. My problem with the Wii U right now is that they haven't even specified how their online is going to be other than Reggie claiming that 'it's better now' or talking about all the social networking stuff (that I don't personally care about). If they really wanted to give MS and Sony a kick in their dicks, it'd be a combination of Live (solid infrastructure, cross-game/party chat and streamlined marketplace) and PSN Plus (free stuff!). I think that might be the thing to take some wind out of the 360's sails and I'm okay with anything that might make them rethink their 'pay for online/Netflix/etc services and overpriced full retail game downloads' stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I agree Alex, and we need to see more. My guess is they are still scrambling to get it together before launch. Don't get me wrong; they are in a precarious position and need to act carefully. Success in the last generation does not guarantee success in the next. But I just don't see them folding due to a weak online system, assuming it does have basic gameplay functionality and further connectivity than the Wii does now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMW Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Oh come on on guys, you're being silly. Whether or not Nintendo will be able to to stay in the home console market beyond the Wii U despite not having the advantages of a large multifaceted corporation (and whether there's a ninth generation of consoles at all) is entirely dependent on other variables. Whether or not Pikmin 3 has online multiplayer isn't gonna sway such things either way. This has been blown WAY out of proportion. Why is anyone even surprised about this? Let me explain matters: 1. Nintendo hasn't had a strong online infrastructure because Nintendo's software engineers aren't very interested in using that technology. The Wii U has greater online capabilities than past Nintendo hardware as a concession to third party developers - not because Nintendo's suddenly changed their development philosophies. I expect Smash Bros and Mario Kart will have online play on the Wii U, but not a whole lot else from first party developers. Just like always. 2. Pikmin 3 is a launch window game. Launch games are always more feature bare than later releases. Developing for unfamiliar hardware and needing to hit a hard date of launch is difficult and most always negatively impacts the product. Consider: Nintendo is perfectionist about their video games, and they don't have a ton of experience making online multiplayer games (much less ones with hundereds of little Pikmin to keep in perfect sync), AND they're developing for the new hardware's launch window. I would have been shocked if this game had online multiplayer. There, does that little bit of context help you folks? Are we through doomsaying just because one particular title doesn't have one particular feature? Remember, Nintendo not taking advantage of online capabilities doesn't mean the console doesn't have those capabilities - it just means Nintendo isn't using them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yeah, I doubt this is the death knell for Nintendo. It's a little silly not to have online in Pikmin, but not really a big deal. The reason I posted this was just to make fun of their justification, which is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbassman39 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I have to disagree, while one launch game not having online integration isn't going to hurt, not having a fully developed online infrastructure will. The online component isnt just te future of gaming it's the now of gaming, it's the past 6 years of gaming. Nintendo has to do a lot better than a bit better than the wii. The wii was held up by the casual market, I doubt that market will return for the wii u. Nintendo has to look and Sony and Microsoft if they want to succeed, and online networking is not only a feature in games it's a standard now. Nintendo not having a system similar to what the psn was on day one puts them 6 years behind the competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 The wii was held up by the casual market, I doubt that market will return for the wii u. I do agree with this. A LOT of Nintendo's sales were those "non-traditional gamers", and I don't see them picking up a Wii U. For one thing the branding is way too confusing, so I bet a lot of them won't understand that it's even a different thing. And even for the ones that do I doubt Nintendo will gain much ground trying to get them to buy it when they already have a Wii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yup, CNN had the Wii U down as a controller for the Wii. And showing it off running all the games the Wii does, with working with Wiimotes n Wii Fit n all that just makes them seem like sequels, not next-gen games. The price, once announced( they fucked up by not showing it other week), will no doubt settle that misconception. But the Wii audience is an audience that will likely be fine with the Wii for many years. My mum has a Wii n a PS2. Wii gets mainly used for Wii Fit, which still works as it did the day it was bought, so no need for another, and a PS2 for Singstar. These aren't gamers that will be like "ooh, new version of Arkham City!". Even the allure of nintendo oldies like Zelda n Metroid n such don't really do much for this audience as the nostalgia factor isn't there. Nintendo = Mario and Mii's for this audience. About the only thing going for them is getting the latest toy for the kids. Though these kids that were 6 when the Wii came out will now be going on 13, old enough to be wanting to play COD with their school friends on the next Xbox. (or 6 years later, 6 feet deeper for some Wii buyers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMW Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I have to disagree, while one launch game not having online integration isn't going to hurt, not having a fully developed online infrastructure will. Right on! But Pikmin 3 not having online multiplayer is not indicative of the hardware not having proper online infrastructure. Pikmin 3 doesn't have online because Nintendo doesn't want it to be online. These are not related things. Different. Things. I highly doubt that whatever Nintendo cooks up for it's Nintendo Network will be equivalent to the competitor's services (what with them being many years old now), but nothing has yet been announced regarding those features and functionality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 This discussion here wasn't sparked by what Iwata said earlier is it? (just noticed a lack of linkage) http://www.nintendow....com/news/30741 (There's more links around on web, just look up for recent news for "Iwata online") Friend codes are still gonna be part of their online process. Those things were loved by all. Nintendo pretty much going "We're 6 years behind in all this, may as well stay that way", which is of course sound business thinking. I understand PSN/XBL isn't necessarily how they want to be doing online, but it's not like they're the only mature online systems out there to emulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbassman39 Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Never said they were the same. I never said anything bout pikman though, I'm talking purely about the Internet infrastructure that Nintendo hadn't said a thing about it except it still has friend codes and will be better. The pikman is just a discussion that got me thinking about their online support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 @Dean: This is an evolution of the conversation sparked by Miyamoto's comment about online not being able to handle all the Pikmin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 Addressing a few of your points throughout the thread Dean: CNN had the Wii U down as a controller for the Wii. More CNN's fault than Nintendo's. A cursory glance at Nintendo's website, the press emails CNN undoubtedly received, or Nintendo's E3 site would have corrected that error. Bad reporting through and through. Yes, Wii 2 would have indicated a new system more than Wii U I suppose. Beyond the price announcement as you said and the product's release this will be a non-issue. Nintendo = Mario and Mii's for this audience. And lo and behold, Nintendo is launching the system with games featuring both, nary a Metroid or Zelda in sight. Friend codes are still gonna be part of their online process. From the website that shall not be named: "There are friend codes, but it's not the existing friend code system," Fils-Aime said. "What do I mean by that? Here's what I mean: you will be able to identify people as friends and have a certain level of interaction vs. a different level of interaction for the more general population. The method by which you identify someone as a friend is a lot simpler than what's happening today with Friend Codes." The problem I believe people had with the Wii version, I told Fils-Aime, is that adults who owned the system felt like, hey, if I'm an adult, treat me like an adult and let me friend people I've met online without having to call a person and exchange a code or something like that. "Agreed," Fils-Aime said. "You feel like those people will be happier?" I asked. "Yes, they will be." So to me it sounds that they're simplifying the process of adding friends, but still limiting interactions with non-friended people, perhaps limiting voice chat and other messages. That sounds good to me, and it addresses the core issues with friend codes in the first place. Nintendo pretty much going "We're 6 years behind in all this, may as well stay that way" That's the opposite of what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that they're acknowledging previous weakness in the infrastructure itself (not necessarily their own in-house games, as those will likely still focus on local play), and that everything just hasn't been fleshed out yet to a point that they're ready to show it to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 I kinda figured the CNN thing was fairly well known (in fact wasn't it posted on here too?), was all over the place a bit. The original article, written by a guy on the show floor, did refer to Wii U as a new console. The editor at CNN then "corrected" that to a new controller(before correcting it back). Which is what it's coming off as, as mentioned before Nintendo have made little effort in clarifying explicitly that the Wii U is a completely new console, generation, hardware etc from the Wii. They really should have spent some more time on the box powering it all, but they're not wanting to talk price or specs so I guess "here's the on button...and it presses in like so" is about all they could talk about it. Given the DS - DS Lite - DSI - DS XL, and 360 S n PS3 Slim changes people see about, it's not surprising that the Wii U console randomly shown on some press shots looks like a smoothed Wii. Wii Slim Nintendoland looks like a pack-in. Except they're apparently going to try n sell it on it's own. Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, and Wii Fit, the main games staring Miis are all pack-ins. These aren't games people went out their way to buy, they bought the hardware that came with it. A new Mario game doesn't really spell out "new console" either. Are people open to the idea of shelling out a few hundred on a new Mario game? The continued use of the name "Friend Codes" does seem to imply that Friend Codes are still going to be present though. Even if they are expanding it a bit and taking the plastic caps off the plug sockets a little bit. I'd feel that with a launch due in the next few months I'd have wanted a pretty fleshed out online system, it sounds like despite several years of R&D they still don't know what or how to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnstableArk Posted June 14, 2012 Report Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) You should be aware that the online infrastructure for both the 360 and PS3 wasn't exactly 100% ready at launch either. They had barebones online connectivity and it took both several months to stabilize. Also, the Wii Sports games were pack-ins in the west only; the JP versions were stand alone, and it sold surprisingly well. As for Wii Fit and Wii Sports resort, and the others, they were packed in with new consoles only, but still managed to sell in the millions to those who owned earlier releases of the console. As for New Super Mario Bros., the Ds and Wii versions sold in the multi-millions. Odds are that people will go back for more, and it makes the console all the more appealing if it's available at launch. Still too little data available to be certain. Edited June 14, 2012 by UnstableArk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Iwata: “We’re not completely getting rid of Friend Codes, but a function of the “Miiverse” will simplify the process of making friends with another user in the platform by eliminating the need to input Friend Codes.” There's nothing inherently wrong with friend codes. They're keeping friend codes because they still need to individually identify users. That's logical to me - you need a unique ID on PSN and LIVE too, and if you want to add a specific person, you need to swap those IDs outside the console environment on those systems too, we have threads especially for that purpose on this very forum. Nintendo have said/strongly implied you can add people you meet within the console environment to your friend list on the Wii U. I don't see what the problem is here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 I think it mostly boils down to 'jumble of numbers' vs. 'nickname or moniker', but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yeah, obviously they have to have a unique identifier for people, but there's no good reason that they can't let people make their own unique identifier so it's a least somewhat easily read by humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnstableArk Posted June 15, 2012 Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) My guess is that the friend code stays as a permanent identifier but you can customize your visible name whenever you like, sort of the way Steam does it, except with a number instead of an ID name. No need to worry about having your favored name taken and unusable. Still, not enough data to work on, I just hope this is the route they take. Edited June 15, 2012 by UnstableArk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-25-nintendo-gaming-community-is-insatiable-gamers-never-satisfied Apparently gamers are never satisfied with Nintendo. Dunno why... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 He wasn't saying it's just about Nintendo, and anyway, you know he's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 Nintendo fanboys are annoying, no doubt. But, come on Reggie! We want a Mario game at launch with our console... you know like how the NES had Super Mario Bros, the SNES had Super Mario World, and the N64 had Super Mario 64. Instead, we're getting a cashgrab title, that looks pretty much like the DS original from 6 years ago. No thanks. When we say a Mario game, we don't mean a DS spinoff, we mean something akin to Mario Galaxy. Yes, many gamers asked for Pikmin, and they got that, but you need more than one AAA "hard core" title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted June 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 He wasn't saying it's just about Nintendo, and anyway, you know he's right. I'm generally fine with the selection offered on the Sony side of things. Maybe when gamers are "and what else?" it's "and maybe something more than a new Mario?". When folks pick up a new console they're maybe wanting a bit more than what they had on the last one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 we're not talking about you though - there are individuals who are happy, and others who are not happy with everything. In general, gamers are not an easily satisfied bunch. It's not often something is announced and people say "that's great, I'll quietly wait here until it's released' en masse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted June 25, 2012 Report Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Gonna have to agree with that; we're not an easy bunch to please. There are tons of people with a Sony console who are excited for PlayStation All-Stars, but a large portion as well who couldn't care (i.e. myself). Edited June 25, 2012 by Atomsk88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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