Yantelope Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 The problem with the stop-gap solution is it may end up like the Dreamcast and get killed by the PR of the bigger better systems Sony and MS have around the corner. Also, MS keeps saying 2014 for the next xbox. I don't want to believe them but that's what they keep saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I don't know if they'll get outright killed, but they'd definitely be back in the situation they're in now, where they're competing with two competitors with hardware from the previous generation. It's worked fine now, but considering how they're trying to change their target audience it doesn't look like it'll be as explosively popular as the Wii was during its first couple of years. Edited July 14, 2011 by RockyRan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't know why you think it is a good thing that the WiiU may force the other console manufacturers to release their consoles sooner - we all know what happened last time MS rushed out a console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't know why you think it is a good thing that the WiiU may force the other console manufacturers to release their consoles sooner - we all know what happened last time MS rushed out a console. Well there's a bigger difference to MS rushing the console that time to presently. In all honesty Microsoft should most likely be the last company to release the new system. In terms of console releases I'll try to simplify it. Nintendo always caters to the home crowd i.e. the Japanese market. Now wii sales have seriously declined out there and some weeks this year it was selling under 10k which wasn't good for Nintendo. Software on the wii is also starting to sell less. Titles like Pandora's tower opened ok and then died. Earth seeker was pretty much dead. The wii for all intents and purposes is mostly a console on it's last legs which was the reason they were forced to announce the WiiU. Honestly they would have liked to wait it out a few more years but market changes prevented them from staying on. Wii sales have declined in the US as well.It is selling but the 360 is outselling. They were not ready to announce the new console. I believe they wanted to announce it at TGS. But someone leaked info about the WiiU which forced Nintendo to act quickly and this time they were unable to hide. Normally they're very good at sorting out corporate leaks but this must have been an unexpected source. They are still looking to release it in FY2012 which according to some means it'll hit summer 2012. I get the feeling that they'll delay for a fall release in order to build up for Christmas. October seems like a good month. SCE and MSXbox division aren't really concerned about the WiiU. The 360 is selling well thanks to renewed life from the kinect and the PS3 is still on its 10 year lifecycle and there's not a huge generational gap between them and the WiiU that it could hurt them. Lets take Sony's case first. Right now they're working on the release of the Vita. They've been working on the Vita since before the release of the Go and their aim was to make a handheld console that was $249.99. All the while they would deny that it was under development. They have a huge R&D department and they're already actively working on finding the right price-build for their next console. Vita is in PR and marketing phase and the PS4 is most likely on the halfway mark of the development phase. They would not have to speed up to release their new console. If they are going by their 10 year plan which they did with the PS2, we need to remember that the PS3 was released about 6 years after the release of the PS2. If everything goes according to keikaku then we should see the PS4 coming out sometime in 2013 which wouldn't be too far away from the 2012 release date of the WiiU. I believe they are probably the most strongly placed to release a new console in the marketplace that's highly competitive because they haven't said anything and we're only going to hear about this post Vita launch. They wouldn't be hurrying it. In the case of Microsoft, whether we like it or not they will be trying to milk the Kinect first and right now they are profitable and selling quite well. The last time they hurried to release one because the Xbox wasn't selling as much as they wanted and they needed the new console out even before the original one was hitting its stride. A lot of resource allocation had to have been done at the time to make that switch. Currently Microsoft would like to streamline their OS so we will see the the next Xbox OS to be quite similar to the next windows and I'd bet that we'll see Windows8 launching roughly 6-9 months before the next Xbox which should most likely hit late 2013 at the very earliest. 2014 seems to me the most likely bet with them. I can't say how releasing last will help them so if Sony announces something at 2012 or they get wind of that they'll do the same. No one wants to be left behind. Right now it's a game of chicken between MS and Sony on who's going to announce when. By 2014 we'll have all three next generation consoles and the 8th generation will hit full swing. One thing to note is that whoever is the market leader in console terms leads the dominance in terms of games. Personally I'd prefer it to be a tiny Sony lead unless Nintendo gets back to how it was in the early 90s because of the variety of games we had during the PS2 generation and the SNES, Sup Famicom generation. The 360 dominates in the US is why we have far too many shooters, it would be nice to see what happens when games from Palzone actually make a bigger difference outside of the PCsphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Windows 8 is launching at the end of this year. If that changes any of your numbers. Though no doubt the next Xbox will have a Metro theme. They're already shifting the 360 across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 A couple of notes. MS killed the first xbox in large part because the mandatory hdd inside cost too much so they rushed out a new system which had a detachable hdd. Also they kept saying first to market is a huge advantage and it turned out to help a lot with the launch of the 360. I'm surprised they appear to have forgotten the whole first to 20 million consoles sales march. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Question is, are Nintendo the first to market with a new generation, or last to market with the current gen? I think it's the latter as they're pitching at the PS3/360 crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 A couple of notes. MS killed the first xbox in large part because the mandatory hdd inside cost too much so they rushed out a new system which had a detachable hdd. Also they kept saying first to market is a huge advantage and it turned out to help a lot with the launch of the 360. I'm surprised they appear to have forgotten the whole first to 20 million consoles sales march. The first to market helped out a lot? They're barely a few million ahead of PS3. As this gen progresses it becomes more and more certain that PS3 sales will surpass the 360. And that's with the handicap of starting a year later and a $900 price tag. And the stigma of the RROD as a result of the early launch will most likely have some kind of side effect if they have an early launch for their next xbox too. Also we're in the WiiU thread. I'm thinking an 8th Gen general discussion thread is in order. Though I think there is one. Thursday has hit a nail on the head. Officially it's the first 8th gen machine. But on a technical scale it's the last of the 7th gens, and since it has similar spec, it's going to end up with similar 3rd party games of PS3 n 360; 7th gen consoles. It remains to be seen if 8th gen will turn it into another Wii. An under powered console with a gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I tend to believe the success of the wii was a fad and probably won't be duplicated. So a late 7th gen system seems like a bad deal to me. The early start did help the xbox get a huge lead. The sustained high price, xbl subscription fees, and lack of bluray and RRoDs have kept it from being a runaway winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 While we're on a roll with the last gen discussion. I think the "first to market" thing was vital for Xbox 360. PlayStation had such a massive following at the time that had PS3 got there first Xbox would have been very under-subscribed. Anecdotally, a lot of PS fans I know got an Xbox because they "couldn't wait" for the PS3, then when the PS3 dropped, Xbox had already established a community, it's a lot harder to leave friends (IRL or otherwise) than it is to leave a box, so they stayed with Live and the community there (though gradually most have migrated to PS3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 A couple of notes. MS killed the first xbox in large part because the mandatory hdd inside cost too much so they rushed out a new system which had a detachable hdd. Also they kept saying first to market is a huge advantage and it turned out to help a lot with the launch of the 360. I'm surprised they appear to have forgotten the whole first to 20 million consoles sales march. The first to market helped out a lot? They're barely a few million ahead of PS3. As this gen progresses it becomes more and more certain that PS3 sales will surpass the 360. And that's with the handicap of starting a year later and a $900 price tag. And the stigma of the RROD as a result of the early launch will most likely have some kind of side effect if they have an early launch for their next xbox too. Also we're in the WiiU thread. I'm thinking an 8th Gen general discussion thread is in order. Though I think there is one. Thursday has hit a nail on the head. Officially it's the first 8th gen machine. But on a technical scale it's the last of the 7th gens, and since it has similar spec, it's going to end up with similar 3rd party games of PS3 n 360; 7th gen consoles. It remains to be seen if 8th gen will turn it into another Wii. An under powered console with a gimmick. Exactly. Nintendo has repeatedly said that the Wii is holding them back, making me wonder if they're really that short sighted. When the rest of the 8th gen systems release they're right back to square one with the Wii U "holding them back", so did they really do anything to rectify that in the long run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Windows 8 will be a bit later than this year. The end of this fiscal year is the target but for once they are thinking of streamlining their business. MS has always had various departments pretty much at war with each other. It's always how it's been at MS and I'm saying this having several friends who work there and owning some stock. Like I keep saying MS will be the last to release the new console. Firstly their console has hit the stride in the US and is currently outselling the others by a huge margin in the US. One thing that people forget is that a console is big and important in the home market. For Microsoft it's the US and right now thanks to Kinect and the $100 discount vouchers it sold 507k in June which is ridiculous. Of course it'll go down in July but they've managed sustained growth. They are not going to release a core console till late 2013 at the earliest. They want to capitalise on the party console nature. Sony pretty much works on the whole futureproofing aspect of their tech. Right now they are looking into Head mounted displays and VR and moving the shift away from 3D because they know it's possible to get those. It also means they're focussing on holo-displays which they're trying to work at with their 360 degree display as is. For instance Blu-ray is catching on. You know all that digital download revenue that studios thought they could capitalise on? Well it's declining and declining sharp. It's mostly because of streaming films that are available from rental companies. On demand is competing with Digital Download distribution and winning (mostly because of capped download limits in a lot of areas). Meanwhile Blu-Rays are slowly and surely getting there. Not to mention a lot of Blu-Rays exist without region protection these days as well (plus of course the fact that prices are going down. I saw a decent Blu Ray print of let the right one in going for 3.99 quid). Anyways getting to the point they like to future proof. Right now they're testing 4k technology. Honestly we are far far away from giving 4K resolution in homes while cinemas are just adjusting to 8K and above (it's a slow shift) but there's tech that exists to make this easily viable. Now you may ask what's the point of 4K. The biggest thing to tell a layperson is that if you were to zoom into an image captured at 4k you can get even the smallest of details. It's of great use when filming and editing. In terms of gaming it'll change the whole line of sight aspect not to mention output in much crisper form. However you will need a big enough screen to take advantage of that. But that's hypothetical for now since it's still not a home viable solution. As for the WiiU, it's like what happened with the Wii. The point that TN brings about in terms of semantics is moot since the 8th generation begins when the next console comes out and the WiiU whether it be a stop gap graphically or not is still the 8th Generation. It's like saying your clone given birth through via your wife's egg is entirely identical to you and thus must be your generation when it clearly wouldn't be. (Plus similar to the clone, a stop-gap has a reduced life expectancy). However one thing people don't seem to realise is that 3rd Parties western developers aren't really finding success with Nintendo. Look at all the games that were coming up that got cancelled or shifted. For instance the concept of Assassin's creed 3DS is now what we have in Assassin's Creed Revelations, titles like My garden were cancelled. For third party developers the WiiU will not hold them back because they know that people buy Nintendo consoles primarily to play Nintendo games and market tastes have changed as well. This is not the generation where titles like Killer7 or the like would flourish unless it's sold via Atlus' marketing department (who are very good at their job and manage to sell a game like 3D dot game heroes which failed in Japan to 3-4 times that amount in the US). Third party developers would port their games on the WiiU but if people don't buy them which seems to happen often enough, they'll just stop focussing on them. Nintendo has found itself in a very odd position right now. Third party games aren't selling well on their platform. Titles like NMH did ok and honestly wouldn't have done any better on the HD twins or the PC because those are niche titles. However with a few exceptions such as Rhythm games and some CoD/Golden Eye and the like didn't do too well. Nowadays people mostly just buy Nintendo games on the console and few special titles that are marketed to specific niche groups. It's mostly because people who buy the console want to buy Nintendo games and the ones that would have bought every third party title there know that they perform better (as a game) usually on the other platforms they're available on. Microsoft might find itself in that position if it carries on with the kinect. Yes there's Live and some 3rd party games are better but that margin is decreasing steadily and the only reason for owning one are the XBLA titles. All PSN needs to do is focus on the little developers while MS focuses on kinect (we know Nintendo's stance when it comes to what they believe are very small-sized teams which is odd considering some really fun games were made by small teams - Magicka (7 people), Joe Danger (5 people), etc) and they can even that out. I'd say MS should see the trends from Nintendo on what happens when it focusses for the casual market for too long and thus will not wait till late 2014 to release a console. Whereas Sony has learnt from its mistakes and will be aiming to release a console that costs between $299 and $399 and if they can continue to learn we as gamers should benefit. All in all, the next generation will be incredibly interesting. Not to mention there's some real interesting rumblings on the hardware side. Edit: I think we need a split bump on this thread since we're really talking about the next generation. Split and put it in the general gaming thread. Or combine the next Xbox thread with threads on this topic . I mean really we'll end up 3 topics once we get rumblings for PS4. Edited July 16, 2011 by WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFlyingGerbil Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Plug for the Generation Eight thread I started! Generation Eight Discussion Edited July 16, 2011 by TheFlyingGerbil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 http://www.gametrailers.com/video/the-wii-mega64/717627 It all makes sense now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted September 8, 2011 Report Share Posted September 8, 2011 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.01net.com/genere/article/fichiersAttaches/1314112925-nintendo-wiiu-english-parttwo.rtf Hmmm... It really seems like the Wii U is just a total misstep by Nintendo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 wow. That is worrying. Nintendo have been unhelpful to some devs before, if this is true this seems to be just complete ineptness on their part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyRan Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Not exactly sure what would cause this kind of commotion in R&D. I mean yeah, the Wii U's technology probably isn't anything trivial to implement, but having problems even when it's tethered to the console? Not ready to call it a flat out fake, but considering the report came from that one website that predicted both the Wii U itself and the 3DS second analog peripheral, there's some truth to it no doubt. It's just a matter of what's an exaggeration 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted November 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 So first things first http://wiiugo.com/exclusive-ea-origin-to-be-a-key-element-of-nintendos-online-strategy/ But interestingly, EA are supposedly in talks with Nintendo to try and make Origin, their digital games distribution platform, a key element of Nintendo’s online strategy, too. .... According to our source, EA isn’t the only company looking into bringing its digital distribution platform to the Wii U – Valve, too, are interested in getting Steam onto it. But EA are “aggressively persuading Nintendo to go Origins exclusive with Wii U’s online so they can gain a competitive advantage over Steam.” The Valve part is definitely believable (especially since they've already got Steam on PS3, tried with 360, makes sense to go with Wii U too), which I guess makes the rest believable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 That's......really really interesting. I hope unlike Steam on PS3, that it actually covers all games. Probably won't happen. It'd be a massive coup for EA, alright with all the games they release. While Steam is on PS3, due to Valve only making a few games over the next couple of years it wouldn't be that much of a loss if they weren't on it....maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMW Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 That is... fascinating! I don't buy it necessarily, but it's fascinating all the same. I really don't know much about online gaming (or technology at all for that matter) so could you guys answer a few questions please? Assuming this is true and Origin/Steam are going to show up on WiiU: Will PC games on the service be able to be bought and played on the Wii U? Or would they need to be re-programmed significantly and then given another release? Basically, does offering these services give the consumer access to any back catalog of games to be bought? Does this mean that digital product distribution is definitely happening? That's what these services do, right? Does this mean that online games can be played cross-platform (against Playstation players or whatever)? Are the prices for digital releases usually lower than retail discs? Do either Steam or Origin DRM the game files to prevent piracy? If so, would this mean I can't back my games and game saves up? Does this mean definitely and without question no friend codes? This probably isn't enough information to answer all of these, but any insight you guys have would be appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Will PC games on the service be able to be bought and played on the Wii U? No. Definitely not. The Wii U will not have the same level of functionality is your home computer. Does this mean that digital product distribution is definitely happening? That's what these services do, right? No, what these services do is provide a network to use for such as playing online, friends lists, a place to go with customer service issues, etc. You can buy Steam games on a disc. You can buy Origin games on a disc. If DD is happening, it will not be because of this, this will just be part of it. Does this mean that online games can be played cross-platform (against Playstation players or whatever)? We'll have to wait and see. With Portal 2, PS3 and PC users can play together. There are some 360/PC cross-platform titles. It's possible, but it's a matter of if they'll actually do it or not. Are the prices for digital releases usually lower than retail discs? Do either Steam or Origin DRM the game files to prevent piracy? I won't speak for Origin but Steam games have DRM that's not at all intrusive. Prices vary greatly for digital content as a whole. WIth Steam, prices are always the same as the disc's MSRP and then get price drops over times. There are sales as well. One thing that Steam is well known for. If so, would this mean I can't back my games and game saves up? On Steam, this is typically independent from Steam (might be different with Valve's first party titles.) You don't run the games in Steam, but rather, Steam is a launcher that then runs over your games. So titles function the same with or without Steam in terms of the files themselves. Steam has a cloud service that lets you backup your games online that is tied to your account. You can also backup your games at any time. Does this mean definitely and without question no friend codes? Assuming they use one of these services, it will be a matter of how deeply integrated it is. If Origin or Steam solely becomes the online aspect of the Wii U friend codes will be abolished. Unless Nintendo is REALLY stubborn about friend codes and sticks them in alongside Origin. Anyways, this is all speculative, but I hope I've brought you up to speed about what we already know about how these services work currently. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ima go back a bit. They were showing off PS3 and 360 games in their "Third party support" because the PS4 and NeXbox aren't out yet. It has been stated to be a fair bit more oomph than the current gen stuff though, just no quantifiable amount atm. This makes sense, but then why weren't they showing off footage from high-end PCs instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Which games would you suggest? I can't really see Witcher 2 heading towards the Wii U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Battlefield 3 and Crysis 2 come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Two PS3 and 360 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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