Chewblaha Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Chew, I see you care more about events than characters. I loved nearly all of this book. Slow, uneventful (on the game of thrones level) Tyrion chapters included. Though Penny needs to die. I particularly liked Dany's chapters. When you finally gain a throne, it's not easy to maintain a kingdom. That'd be a good response if she actually DID something. This is what she consisted of: "Hey find out who killed the baby. Hey get my dragons under the thing. Hey lemme talk to these sick people. Hey protect the city. Hey, sticky your dick in my vagina. Hey, marry me because I'm fucking incompetent. Hey, you have an army of 50k people that will fight for me? Yeah go fuck yourself. Hey, you're CLEARLY a criminal and someone that just wants to marry me for power and had all these murders mysteriously stop after I told you? Yeah, lemme marry you. Oh. You're my main bodyguard? You know ALL about the land that I know absolutely NOTHING about but assume I know everything about and think I should have for myself? Oh, you can tell me stories about people and give me great information on powerful families there and how they could help me? Nah shut up, old man. Oh, by the way, lemme just go off and fly on this dragon here. Yeah take my kingdom back for me, too. Shut up still. OMFG YOU ARE A PERSON THAT ONLY I CAN SEE AND HEAR AND YOU'RE TELLING ME ALL THESE RIDDLES? I MUST MAKE MY EVERY PASSING DAY/CHAPTER DEDICATED TO BEING FUCKING PARANOID ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU TOLD ME. REGARDLESS OF THE FACT THAT AFTER I FUCK UP THE SITUATION WITH THE RIDDLE IN GENERAL THAT YOUR PROPHECY COMES TRUE, I WILL STILL REMEMBER EVERYTHING YOU SAY AS WELL AS THAT GUY WHO LOOKS LIKE JOHNNY DEPP WHOSE DICK I WANT IN MY VAGINA." There's a summary of Dany in Dance with Dragons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't share your views at all nor do I think your interpretations of what happened are anywhere near the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Yeah, I can't say I share your views on Dany's chapters either. From my perspective, it seemed Dany's chapters set her up to return to Westeros. Her last chapter is her realisation that she really was just a rash little girl and not the mother of all she deluded herself into thinking she was. She wanted to relax and play which is why she remained in Mereen but she deluded herself into thinking it was for the people. She never considered the consequences of her actions, forgot she was a Targaryen and couldn't make the tough decisions she had to. As a result, her queendom fell apart. Like a little girl, she let her heart lead her rather than her head and despite remembering and oft repeating the prophecies, she never really heeded them. Her last chapter strips her of everything but Drogon allowing her to remember who she is and what she has to do, setting her up for a return to Westeros in the next book. I enjoyed reading of Cersei, Tyrion and Jamie as well. The former chapters highlighted the downfall of the once-great Lannister family while Jamie's chapters concluded his transformation from a cocky, contemptible, incestuous sword into what many people would call a better man. Running off with Brienne wasn't all that shocking. Her absence made him realise how much he actually loved her and how little he really cared for Cersei beyond her flesh. When she appeared, running off with her seemed like the only sensible conclusion to his chapters. It'll be interesting to see what happened with Jon in the next book. Personally, I think he'll live and his stabbing will have ignited the flames between the wildlings and the knight's watch with the old racism being cast aside in favour of honour and unity. Martin has made a point of highlighting how the wildlings choose their leaders so I see them fighting for and saving Jon leaving the path to strengthening the wall in preparation for the arrival of the others open. I think Lady Stoneheart is going to be the threat from the inside as far as the others go and Jon will be forced to confront her as the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Gendry, I believe will be the one to wed Dany and their marriage will heal the old wounds of the usurping while strengthening the kingdom. His low birth will allow him to be the voice of the people while Dany's dragons will allow her to be the hand. Edited October 24, 2011 by MasterDex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewblaha Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 You mean you enjoyed Tyrion getting drunk/finding out about/saving Aegon (two chapters) on the poleboat and then getting captured by Jorah and then becoming a slave with Jorah in which then Tyrion finds Ben Plumm and THEN does something ELSE in his story? Or how Jaime's whole one chapter has an incredibly lame plot twist at the end? Or how Bran, whom I waited nearly eleven years for, got a whole *THREE CHAPTERS* in which he DID SOMETHING in EVERY ONE of those chapters. Same with Davos, who got FOUR. Yeah, I forgot. Dany/Tyrion get around 24 where you can read a combined five and know what they did for the entire book, though you get SEVEN from two characters who also weren't heard from in eleven years. That's fucking great. Tyrion/Dany were the worst POV's of the book, and IMO, stunk the portion of the book up. I talked with Brain about it. In Barristan's first POV you see him hint that maybe he should've noticed that Aerys was insane and he should've done the deed of killing him. I think he might end up doing that with Dany. We have never seen a live POV watching Dany rule. We think she's fine and dandy from seeing her through her, because her brain rationalizes it to make sense, but I want to see someone watching her. From another perspective. What THEY think of her. I think in the end, Dany will end up being just another Aerys and that only Rhaegar was the one who wasn't touched by his madness. Another thing about prophecies: I get that some people are so intertwined into prophecies about Azor Ahai, the Prince who was Promised, and all the stuff in the house of the undying. Wouldn't the best thing about a prophecy (that so many have claimed they understand already) is that it does not come true in the end? Out of nowhere would be great. All your years of thinking you had it made out like it was supposed to be undone by a single page. I think that would be a fitting end, because in this series, you never know what to expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 You mean you enjoyed Tyrion getting drunk/finding out about/saving Aegon (two chapters) on the poleboat and then getting captured by Jorah and then becoming a slave with Jorah in which then Tyrion finds Ben Plumm and THEN does something ELSE in his story? Or how Jaime's whole one chapter has an incredibly lame plot twist at the end? Or how Bran, whom I waited nearly eleven years for, got a whole *THREE CHAPTERS* in which he DID SOMETHING in EVERY ONE of those chapters. Same with Davos, who got FOUR. Yeah, I forgot. Dany/Tyrion get around 24 where you can read a combined five and know what they did for the entire book, though you get SEVEN from two characters who also weren't heard from in eleven years. That's fucking great. Tyrion/Dany were the worst POV's of the book, and IMO, stunk the portion of the book up. I talked with Brain about it. In Barristan's first POV you see him hint that maybe he should've noticed that Aerys was insane and he should've done the deed of killing him. I think he might end up doing that with Dany. We have never seen a live POV watching Dany rule. We think she's fine and dandy from seeing her through her, because her brain rationalizes it to make sense, but I want to see someone watching her. From another perspective. What THEY think of her. I think in the end, Dany will end up being just another Aerys and that only Rhaegar was the one who wasn't touched by his madness. Another thing about prophecies: I get that some people are so intertwined into prophecies about Azor Ahai, the Prince who was Promised, and all the stuff in the house of the undying. Wouldn't the best thing about a prophecy (that so many have claimed they understand already) is that it does not come true in the end? Out of nowhere would be great. All your years of thinking you had it made out like it was supposed to be undone by a single page. I think that would be a fitting end, because in this series, you never know what to expect. I've only recently read the books so I can't begin to understand your level of disappointment with such a long wait but at the same time, I think what you want and what the story calls for are two entirely different things. Reading the books in quick succession, I really enjoyed ADwD. I get where you're coming from though. I'd love to have had more chapters about Bran and Jaime but I don't think the book was necessarily any worse for the exclusion. I really like the idea of a POV chapter from Barristan watching Dany rule. It'd certainly provide a good insight into her mental state since Barristan likely knows better than anyone of Aerys' madness. The Azor Ahai prophecy seems to be wrapped up in too nice of a bow to come completely to fruition but the power of foresight that the red priests seem to have throws doubt into that. I certainly don't think Stannis is the promised prince however. Which reminds me. I meant to comment on this in my last post but it slipped my mind. I believe Stannis is still alive, still holding out and yet to attack. I believe what happened was that Ramsey or Roose did actually capture Mance and kill the spearwives that travelled with him but Stannis never attacked. It'd be a shame if Stannis did actually attack and we were never privvy to any of the events of the siege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewblaha Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 I am positive that Stannis did not attack. It all seems too out of the blue to make the attack. I am 90% sure that Ramsay, in a fit of rage and out of the knowledge of his father, sent the letter to Jon as the threat after he found out both his female and male plaything went missing. I honestly think Ramsay has some kind of sick, twisted, romantic love for Theon. He obviously hates him, but I think he has a weird love for him as well. Calling him stuff like "my Reek" and all of that. Maybe not for Theon in particular, but for anyone that was granted to be his plaything, including Jeyne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 I knew I wasn't just imagining that! He definitely has some pervy hard-on for "Reek" stemming from his sadistic perversions and his closeness to the original Reek - who I think was the reason he became the sick fuck that he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewblaha Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) I think it's obvious he made Theon into a eunuch and maybe he did a few things with "Reek" (anyone that's gone by that title). It doesn't seem that Ramsay has much contact with women (aside from the ones he hunts and Jeyne, though Jeyne really is just a girl) and probably made Reek into his "woman." Edited October 28, 2011 by Chewblaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 He doesn't seem driven by sexual pleasure though. Just a little bit, but the torture and weirdness comes first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewblaha Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 From what we saw of him, true. Admittedly, we did see him a lot as well. Though we don't know for sure what goes on beyond those closed doors. Apparently he makes Jeyne do...unmentionable things. Which is really creepy for the actress playing Jeyne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Jeyne mentions dogs and stuff... and we also know Theon was involved from time to time... which is why I'm saying it's not Ramsey himself doing anything. His pleasure is far more twisted than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Assuming now that Chewie is done reading we can dispense with spoilers? For a while I was convinced that Beric Dondarrion was Azor Ahai, he had the proper flaming sword and was undying until he passed the gift onto Cat/Stoneheart. Now I wonder if with Jon's future not looking too rosy if Melissandre will revive him the way the Red Priest did Beric, either that or if Cat will pass the gift on to Jon (seems unlikely given their history) either way, it would see Jon possibly as the true Azor Ahai. I'm surprised that no one has drawn the parallel between Cersei taking a walk and being broken and Dany taking a walk and being forged anew. Surely this is the prophesied "Younger and more beautiful queen"? I think the Tyrion chapters were drawn out to give you an idea of the sort of distance he has travelled, it would sort of lose the sense of scale if Tyrion just popped up with Jorah outside Mireen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewblaha Posted November 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 But everyone KNEW the journey was long from the beginning. Pentos to Mereen is FAR. We know that because it took Dany three books to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 But, a lot happened on Tyrion's journey. Meeting Young Griff, finding out he is Aegon. The meeting with the greyscale fellas which raises suspicions of Tyirion being a Targaryen bastard, getting apprehended by Mormont, his character development while with Penny, and then coming to Mereen as a slave. That's a lot to fit in that would be missed if he just appeared in Mereen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 There are suspicions of him being a Targaryen bastard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) I don't have ADwD to hand, but at one point near the end Tyrion muses as to whether his immunity from the greyscale means he is a Targ. There's also the comment "All dwarves are bastards." And Tywin saying "I wish I could prove you are not my son." (rather than "I wish you were not my son"). He's also described as having "white-blonde" hair, possibly alluding to the white hair of Targaryens. Oh, and he dreams of Dragons, and the way the Direwolves react to him is odd. Edited November 14, 2011 by Thursday Next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 Interesting. Interesting. Not enough evidence to be compelling as some other theories I've read though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainHurtBoy...2 Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 My favorite theory is that Varys and Illyrio are Blackfyre loyalists, Aegon is a Blackfyre heir and Illyrio or his wife were (possibly) Blackfyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 I've heard the Aegon part of that... but not with those two. Hmmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewblaha Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I thought the rumor was that Cersei/Jaime were supposed to be Targaryen bastards. It makes sense when you see Genna talking to Jaime in AFFC where she mentioned to Tywin once that Tyrion was his true son and not Jaime and that Tywin did not speak to her for half a year after that. She starts listing that Jaime is a lot like Tygett and Kevan, but not Tywin and that only Tyrion is the true son of Tywin. If I remember correctly, the passage in ADwD states that Aerys as so infatuated by Joanna that there was some hint that he had her for the first night, like a sort of prima nocta or something. It really insinuates that both Jaime and Cersei were conceived as the bastard children of Aerys, though it was never proven. I think the weird duality here is that if this stupid fucking plot twist is in fact true, it would make it something along the lines of Tywin having a "son" in Jaime (When it's really not his) and a son in Tyrion (whom he absolutely despises). Edited November 15, 2011 by Chewblaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I thought the rumor was that Cersei/Jaime were supposed to be Targaryen bastards. It makes sense when you see Genna talking to Jaime in AFFC where she mentioned to Tywin once that Tyrion was his true son and not Jaime and that Tywin did not speak to her for half a year after that. She starts listing that Jaime is a lot like Tygett and Kevan, but not Tywin and that only Tyrion is the true son of Tywin. Who the fuck takes that literally? Though I guess you're right with that second paragraph in terms of finding some support for it outside of mere words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 You can also add in Tywin's behaviour toward Tyrion. Even after everything that happened, with Cersei, with Jaime, with Tyrion proving himself in battle and in Kings Landing. After all that Tywin still will not give Casterly Rock to Tyrion. A possible explanation could be that he knows Tyrion is not his son and so will not suffer him to hold Casterly Rock. It's been speculated that Tyrion was the result of Aerys raping Joanna, that when Tywin found out he tried to have the child aborted with moon tea, but because of the hardiness of Targs, Tyrion survived, alas Joanna did not. As a result Tywin blames himself as much as Tyrion for the death of his love and couldn't bring himself to murder Tyrion as he is the last piece of Joanna he has left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I loved ADWD. I have a hard on for anything involving Tyrion, so there was nothing wrong with his chapters imo. Ditto Dany. I enjoyed all the new characters too. I need to re-read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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