Game Development: College Education

[GunFlame]

I'm curious to find out what those taking part in College/University Game Development courses actually think of them. Obviously it's a little tough to answer on some aspects because there will be scenarios where you don't know how useful something will be, because you don't have first hand development experience.

 

But, there are somethings you may be able to answer:

 

- With the knowledge you build outside of your schooling, are you finding that some aspects of your course seem to contradict, sugar-coat or over-exaggerate aspects of development?

 

- Do you think that the courses are focused enough?

 

- Are the professors knowledgeable and how do they expose their background to it?

 

- Are the legal and business aspects revealed to you?

 

This is mainly out of curiosity. But I know some lecturers and I have interviewed some candidates who seem to have 'odd' levels of knowledge. But a percentage of this would be due to the transparency and speed of the industry's growth.

[RockyRan]

If you wait until NEXT May I'll be able to tell you

 

I'm taking a class in computer graphics this semester so that I can take a game development class on the next. Until then, well...

 

[GunFlame]

I see. Does your school offer information on the lecturers, were any of them familiar to you?

[UnstableArk]

I've taken focused game courses for 1 year at my previous college and just started programming again in my new semester here and took a game history class back in the spring. I'm not sure how accurately I can answer your questions, but I'll give it a go. But I should let you know right now that I have not built my skills enough to begin a game, nor do I have professional experience, so this is just words from a student. Also, I trained mainly in the field of programming with only minor student experience in design, so...

 

1) Folks still have it in their minds that games build themselves, even newer students. Most orientations tend to over-exaggerate what actually is in store to make it seem more appealing than it is. The work is pretty mundane most of the time and it takes a large amount of time to actually get anything done, all before you start using more sophisticated tools. I'm having a bit of trouble answering the first question, so if you could specify it a bit more, I could probably offer a better answer for you there. Sorry.

 

2) For the most part, the classes are very focused. Actually, they're incredibly intensive most of the time. In design, it can be pretty simple to learn, but most of it is "learn by doing" and requires a large team dynamic. Programming is more solo work, and thus becomes a great pain in the ass if you have little knowledge concerning whatever programming language you're using. Sometimes it seems that most of the classes force you to learn on your own time since most of the material they cover during a class lecture is very fast paced. If you're learning programming without experience, this can be hell since they throw A LOT of different terms at you with the expectation that you already know what's being discussed. Be prepared for that.

 

3) Most are, especially the design based professors. They usually begin a semester by explaining what type of projects they've worked on and how long they've been in the industry. Programming instructors are somewhat different and act a bit more technical. Sometimes they have no gaming experience, which really doesn't matter all to much in programming, but still share where they gathered experience. You can usually tell right off the bat if they're a gamer or not. It can be helpful, especially if they can hint and reference more popular game mechanics into a project. But then again, they can be tough to work with. I've met quite a few instructors who force you to teach yourself or scoff at your programming techniques.

 

4) Yes, you learn a lot on the side of legality and business. Most of it you may already know before taking classes, like the relationship between publishers and developers. Others include copyrighting and plagiarism, especially on the coding side of things. Other stuff like licensing and marketing are also taught, mostly off hand. These aren't main focuses of most courses, so just be aware of that. Most of the time they only teach you about team and time management and how employers might find you and your work and your expected time of employment. Programmers, while paid a lot, are the most expendable people in a development team, as said from multiple sources...lucky me.

 

Sorry if my writing isn't all too cohesive right now. That's all I got at the moment, so hopefully that helps. If not, sorry that I butchered your thread. If you got any other questions, I'd like to help, but I can't guarantee a great answer.

Edited August 29, 2011 by UnstableArk

[GunFlame]

That's odd, I always find that programmers are the least expendable because of the short supply. And good ones are really hard to get a hold of. That's been the case with the companies that I have worked at.

 

Designers, Artists and Producers - if good - are usually kept, but there are contracting options and for artist, freelancers are everywhere. It's strange that you would say that...

 

I appreciate the answer. You pretty much covered most of what I was interested in.

 

I often interview people who have gone through school, and then they find it a little disheartening to find how monotonous and mundane development can actually be. This is especially the case for designers. They seem to get deflated when the find out that their creative input us limited, and it's more or less a balancing kind of job. Tweaks and changes that follow the grand design.

 

I also believe that a lot of people overlook aspects too. Like you mentioned. Everything in a game has to be made or designed. Take an RPG for instance, the experience, gold and damage formulas have to be designed, and then all of the item and weapon ratings need to be configured. And that is very trial and error. Even something like the pathing of NPC's, if they use AI, then that's lucky.

 

A junior designer's first job may be to balance the attack and defense ratings on the equipment statistics for example.

[Yantelope]

I took several classes at my university as advanced free electives including game design, and some 3D modeling. Most of the people I met in there were just engineering wash outs who thought arts and technology would be easier. We had a lot of guest lecturers come in and talk to us from lots of different studios including Relic, EA, Gearbox and a few others. The one question that I asked all of them was "do you need a degree in this to get a job?" and they all pretty much said "No". From what I understand it's best to get really really good at one thing whether it's animation, lighting, texturing, whatever and then focus really hard on that and then learn a little bit of everything else. Put together a really nice portfolio of all the work you've done and you'll get in. It doesn't help to be okay at everything because most people have very specialized jobs in game development.

[UnstableArk]

That's odd, I always find that programmers are the least expendable because of the short supply. And good ones are really hard to get a hold of. That's been the case with the companies that I have worked at.

 

From what I've been told, programmers usually have to follow certain programming conventions the company may have in place. That way, if they need to get rid of you, your replacement can easily pick up and continue whatever work you didn't complete. Of course the good ones can stick around, but you'd really have to impress the employer and convince that the work is done efficiently and quickly. The last thing they want to do is pay for more time than you're worth, which is why learning a good amount of keyboard shortcuts and making use out of macros are so important.

 

Game programmers are among the best around. They can easily trump the work of a procedural programmer under the employ of a non gaming company, so maybe that's why they're valuable. Still, there's a lot of competition in the game industry, so standing out of that crowd is pretty damn difficult. But it's nice knowing that there are some outside places that can hire you just the same.

[Yantelope]

There is a ton of competition which means long hours and little pay. That's pretty much what killed my desire to work as a game designer.

 

Additionally a lot of the designers said they don't play games anymore because after working a 10 hour shift programming games they don't want to go home and play games. This made me want to become a game dev even less.

[deanb]

Tom is going into final year on a Games Design course next year. The course has had a slight tweak the past year where they've had the various related courses (Games Design, Games Art, Games Programming) work together on building a game in UDK. He hasn't got a lot of respect for the games art student, said they help em up a lot. He has the game but not compiled. I should rag on him some more for it. Been meaning to get him to do a write up for PXOD.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Do you think that the courses are focused enough?

 

"General" game design courses generally don't cover enough of any aspect of design in particular. While it's better for certain positions, it doesn't really train you well for any position in particular. Though it does help that the general courses usually introduce you to design documents and pitching. It's good to know a bit of everything, but the courses often stretch you too far without specialization.

 

Are the professors knowledgeable and how do they expose their background to it?

 

That's just going to depend on the professor.

 

Are the legal and business aspects revealed to you?

 

There are "Game Design and Entrepreneurship" courses that cater to this.

[GunFlame]

There is a ton of competition which means long hours and little pay. That's pretty much what killed my desire to work as a game designer.

 

Additionally a lot of the designers said they don't play games anymore because after working a 10 hour shift programming games they don't want to go home and play games. This made me want to become a game dev even less.

 

It depends of the passion really. I remember when I first started working in games as a tester, and even though we did 12-15 hour shifts, I never lost any lust for gaming.

 

There was one period where I played Suikoden V during this session of employment. I would make an effort each night to go home and play for about an hour on a game of my choice. It worked. It kept me happy. I also thoroughly enjoyed playing Suikoden V, and it has come to be one of my favourite JRPG games.

 

As I have continued to work (QA Manager and Design Consultant), I have only ever become more and more passionate about games. It's a hobby that I have done for 22+ years and I enjoy it as much now as ever. I don't get as much time to play, but that is the same with all hobbies as work starts to build up and other of social aspects of life develop.

 

There was a phase during the first 2 years in the industry, where I started to see bugs in games that I bought and dissect them rather than just play them. But I have now long matured past this point. I have come full circle and now more than ever, enjoy each gaming experience that I can afford.

[GunFlame]

From what I've been told, programmers usually have to follow certain programming conventions the company may have in place. That way, if they need to get rid of you, your replacement can easily pick up and continue whatever work you didn't complete.

 

This is true, but it's only really on a project to project basis. But regardless, game programmers are still hard to come by. Especially good ones. Programmers are the only ones that need a degree to get a job, but that exception actually helps them because once they have it, finding work should not be a problem.

 

Game programmers are among the best around. They can easily trump the work of a procedural programmer under the employ of a non gaming company, so maybe that's why they're valuable. Still, there's a lot of competition in the game industry, so standing out of that crowd is pretty damn difficult.

 

Yeah, it is hard to stand out. And this industry is a prime example of that. But programming is by far the safest way to get work in games. Like I said before, Artists and Designers are everywhere. And most companies will only want to hire those with a track record. Because regardless of qualifications, the experience in the environment isn't there. They aren't proven. But this isn't so much the case with programmers. The skills that they have picked up through school are the ones that they will be using for employment. Sure, some training and learning is still needed, but the individual can be an instant asset.

[toxicitizen]

Very interesting thread considering I'm planning to apply for a computer science degree next year. My plan is to do the 3 years bachelor's degree in CS and then go for a one year degree on game design that my uni offers.

 

There's also a new minor this year that focuses on video game study. Seems interesting enough, but it looks like it's more relevant if you're aiming to become a critic rather than working in the industry. So I'm not yet sure if it's worth adding another year for it.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

This is true, but it's only really on a project to project basis. But regardless, game programmers are still hard to come by. Especially good ones. Programmers are the only ones that need a degree to get a job, but that exception actually helps them because once they have it, finding work should not be a problem.

 

This is where the non-centralized programs become effective. There are many jobs in the video game industry that require knowledge intrinsic to the industry itself. While you can go out and learn C# or Maya, those positions are the most highly sought after and the most limited. You aren't going to end up in a hybrid position like Technical Designer by just learning one or the other.

[DocSeuss]

- With the knowledge you build outside of your schooling, are you finding that some aspects of your course seem to contradict, sugar-coat or over-exaggerate aspects of development?

 

No.

 

- Do you think that the courses are focused enough?

 

Yes and no. They teach for 16 weeks, three hours a day. I think they'd benefit from regular 3-day-a-week @ 50 minute classes.

 

- Are the professors knowledgeable and how do they expose their background to it?

 

I'd say so.

 

- Are the legal and business aspects revealed to you?

 

Not so far.

 

----

 

My current problem with my program is this: it's a two year program and many of the classes seem a bit strange for game design. Why am I taking Engineering Graphics and AutoCAD? Well, it's because the board of regents for our state has decided that we need something to "legitimize" the program and keep jobs (of which there are many engineering jobs to be had) in-state.

 

While I could be learning something useful, I'm stuck with something that's interesting but not used by the industry, because of some crusty old men and women who are worried about keeping people in their state.

 

 

They were going to teach, at one point, mapping in the old Tribes engine. I was going to learn scripting and modeling in Second Life, as well as take a course in Second Life, because apparently a bunch of people in the department are obsessed with it. Fortunately, those courses are being scrapped, and I know of at least two new courses that are being implemented to replace them. One of them is with sprites and learning flash/action script for making simple 2D games (not sure how useful this is for anything beyond indie games, but since I am interested in making at least one indie game, I plan on taking it). The other is Cryengine 3.

 

Basically, I'm getting a two-year overview on the different ways to make games (there's a texturing course, for instance, that I'll be doing later), and some of the courses, like digital video editing, engineering graphics, and digital audio editing, don't seem particularly useful. Digital audio editing might sound cool at first, but mostly, we're learning how to make music. I'd hoped to have learned how to do sfx and stuff, but instead, it looks like I'll be cranking out some psytrance instead, which is cool and all, but not super useful for making games.

 

I'm working on creating a games narrative class to submit to the department, since the department head really wants one, but his department can't figure out how to do it without requiring OODLES of reading.

 

It's not all bad: I'm learning 3D animation and limited modeling in Lightwave kinda simultaneously, and will be learning more next fall, so, at the very least, I'm apparently going to have basic animation skills. Next semester, I'll be learning a little bit of Maya and 3DS Max. I'm also going to take a Progamming in C++ for Games class, but, again, it's only a semester. They're replacing the level design class with the CryEngine 3 course at my suggestion (he got so excited after I told him). My main worry is that due to this sort of shotgun approach to the program (there's no introduction to game design and game design fundamentals course, which I might propose later), I won't be a good hire for game developers, much less able to transfer into a four year school and get a Bachelor's, then master's degree. Maybe I don't need that. I don't know.

 

I don't really know what I need. Wish I did.

 

It'd be really nice if some developer out there could say "this is a list of things I want to see in my applicants. They should have a general knowledge in these fields and this software" or whatever.

 

Also, apparently our art department thinks games are not art, so they refuse to help with an "art for games" course.

[GunFlame]

So it seems as though the main purpose of the course is to give you the basics in creating your own game, rather than preparing you to work with a company or team. I'm sure you'll be doing some team based projects though, but it's basically to equip yourself will all of the tools to stand alone.

 

Also, it really seems as though schools are just trying to get to grips with the whole system too. I mean, go back maybe 6 years, and courses for games were very, very sparse. It's understandable though, with the speed that the industry is growing, how do you teach? There isn't really any uniformity, and it changes from company to company. But, it's positive that schools are at least trying. This is great.

 

It'd be really nice if some developer out there could say "this is a list of things I want to see in my applicants. They should have a general knowledge in these fields and this software" or whatever.

 

I won't claim to be an expert. But I will share what I know. I've been involved in the development field for coming close to 6 years now, so I'll try and share what I know in regards to criteria. But the main thing to remember, is that there really is no standard. The position, country, company are all factors. This is the case with all jobs, but more so with games because it is still a new industry.

 

Artists, Animators, Concept Artists, Modeler etc -

 

It's unfair to lump all of these roles into one position, because they can be very specialist. But fortunately, they share very similar requirements. Depending on the country, the qualifications may or may not be a factor. Some companies filter via qualifications, but many ask then as more of a routine thing. Qualifications are more important if you are new, because they are your only experience.

 

For an artist, the portfolio is the main tool used for judging. So it is where the artist's focus should be in terms of where they can sell themselves.

 

With the portfolio, they should also show there strengths, but also diversity. Lead with what you are best at, but make sure there is a mix of all kinds of styles, effects, environments, characters, sketches and models. Also, a major factor with art, is the time it takes to complete the work. Someone may be an amazing artist, but if it takes 3 weeks to complete a model, then that's not going to work very well in an environment where you may be asked to model 10 characters in 3 months.

 

The most common software that I have seen being asked for, is Photoshop and Maya. Which is okay, because these are two tools that are widely available and used through schools and enthusiasts.

 

Designer, Level Designer -

 

Hardest position to get. No doubt. The only easy way, is if the company needs people, and people with experience are too expensive or just not available. That way, the guidelines loosen a little, making things a bit easier.

 

There's no qualification that is a guarantee, just proof that you can do it, or have the knowledge that can get you a junior role. This can happen with schooling, but it's a rarity. Solid experience and physical proof is the best way to get a role, which is a catch 22 considering that would actually mean that you already have to have had a job doing it anyway.

 

For game design, indie is the best way for it or mods. If you have built decent mods, or worked on small indie projects that show your design, then the chance increases a lot. There is a route in through QA, but this requires the slim chance of being a studio QA, and then that they have an opening for a junior position. It's tough.

 

Software wise, there really aren't any specific tools. A lot of games have their own editing suites built with the game engine and refined for the job, so it's different each time.

 

Programming -

 

There are loads of areas of programming which fortunately, open up after initial employment. You may begin to specialize after you have been doing it for a while. Perhaps specializing in engines, AI, physics, or network code. This all depends on the languages you know, but again, most are learned by doing, and can be done through employment.

 

Most of the main languages that I see, are Java and C++. C++ especially for large studios. And then there is Objective C, for those that want to take the App route into development.

 

It's the easiest way to get a job, because it is really the only role where you really need to have gone to school. But Game Programmers are tough to find, especially good ones. A lot more juniors are coming through school now though, so this may change in 3-5 years.

 

There are other job roles, loads actually. But these are the core roles that do the building. There is also audio engineers/designers and composers, but my experience isn't that great in that aspect. It's another tough way to break in though. Usually companies keep the same team of sound engineers and definitely composers. Plus there is a lot of outsourcing done in this area too.

 

As I said, I'm far from a veteran. But this is what I know.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Designer, Level Designer -

 

Hardest position to get. No doubt. The only easy way, is if the company needs people, and people with experience are too expensive or just not available. That way, the guidelines loosen a little, making things a bit easier.

 

There's no qualification that is a guarantee, just proof that you can do it, or have the knowledge that can get you a junior role. This can happen with schooling, but it's a rarity. Solid experience and physical proof is the best way to get a role, which is a catch 22 considering that would actually mean that you already have to have had a job doing it anyway.

 

For game design, indie is the best way for it or mods. If you have built decent mods, or worked on small indie projects that show your design, then the chance increases a lot. There is a route in through QA, but this requires the slim chance of being a studio QA, and then that they have an opening for a junior position. It's tough.

 

Software wise, there really aren't any specific tools. A lot of games have their own editing suites built with the game engine and refined for the job, so it's different each time.

 

I think this is where DocSeuss' program would most pay off; its broad coverage is more suited to a designer position. Something like a games integrator — level designer, game designer, perhaps even technical artist. And it should provide the training and fundamental scripting knowhow to branch what he's learned into a system like Unity or UDK. Albeit, I would suggest he go ahead and dive into a couple engines on his own time for the sake of familiarity.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Saturnine Tenshi