Thursday Next Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I would like to know why Dragon Age is still on Steam when it has its own DLC store in the game. Maybe a legacy thing? Dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Ok... First off. EA have not pulled any content. Valve pulled the content because after the change to Valve's terms. Valve decided it didn't like EA directing customers away from Steam to buy DLC. This has been stated publicly, Valve are far from altruistic in this. BFBC2 and Burnout Paradise served a lot of content to consumers at no extra charge and for a considerable time after the games release. EA are not the all about squeezing you for horse armour. Gabe's quote said that severing the link to between developer and consumer only benefited the middle man, the one who controls the closed platform. In the change from EA --> Consumer to EA --> Valve --> Consumer who benefited? Not the consumer, cos they either could no longer buy the EA product on Steam, or saw no change at all, not EA either, only Valve benefits from this. I'm sure EA is no more happy dancing to Apple's tune than they are Sony, Microsoft or Valve's. However, EA are not the ones bleating about the tyranny of closed systems. Valve is. If closed systems like Steam are so grand, why is Gabe so bummed about everyone else's? Could it be because he does not like playing by Microsoft's rules? I'm stunned that you can't see the hypocrisy in moaning about closed systems when operating one yourself. As has been stated publicly by EA. The actual terms that EA violated are still unknown to the public at large (hence me asking). It just seems really damn odd that Valve would change the terms in such a way that it specifically affects only the titles of their console publishing partner. Whereas EA have been shown to make games that won't work with Steam in any way shape or form (see previous BF3 example). Yeah Burnout had a fair amount. Unsure on BFBC2. Isn't that the one with the DLC on disc/their trial run of Project $10. You're not counting that are you? It's not the consumers fault that EA wanted to have you buy the game on Steam then buy the rest of the game elsewhere. Not really sure how that would be of any benefit to anyone but EA actually. And as mentioned before Steam provides numerous ways for the developer to get to know their customers. (Also EA are the publishers, which act as a further middleman between the developers and customers). I don't think anyone is happy with MSs rules. Even EA. MS rules are you must use MS as a publisher when making an XBLA/XBLIG game (one of the two), Microsofts rule is you must use their servers (unless you're EA or Final Fantasy), Microsofts rule you must pony up in order to use free services or services provided by other companies through separate subscriptions. It's about as closed and "hurts everyone" as they come. The forum is relatively open, even got twitter connect. I'd do Facebook connect but that comes with many nasties. And the database is free and able to move wherever. Compared to the old-old forum. Oh come on. You know this isn't true. Which is of course why I asked the question. Because I knew the answer. You have a habit of saying "you know that isn't true" a lot btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSeuss Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I do? I used the phrase because you said "let's be honest," and if we were being honest, well... then no, the suggestion that EA engineered this just doesn't work. EA wanted to continue business as usual, and Valve wanted to implement draconian policies. Unless EA had been planning this since before they appeared on Steam (iirc, the Mass Effect 1 DLC you had to pay for had always been available through EADM only) That's the truth. For what it's worth, "you know that isn't true" is a phrase I can't recall having used. I've quite likely done so, because it's a common enough phrase, but I'm baffled that you would suggest it's something I use a lot. I am kind of frustrated by the insistence that EA's the bad guy in this case; I know Valve's built up a shit ton of goodwill, and EA's been screwing up ever since Mass Effect 2 managed to sell really well (because, hey, remember when a lot of people were coming around to the notion that this new EA that was making Dead Space, Dragon Age, and Mirror's Edge was pretty cool?), but if you've been following this case, you know EA's just trying to do the thing they've always done, and Valve's been changing things to make things more profitable. Honestly, Valve's going the route of Blizzard. It's starting to get worrying. Isn't that the one with the DLC on disc/their trial run of Project $10. You're not counting that are you? The prototype was DAO (with Shale), and the first "official" Project $10 was, I believe, Mass Effect 2. It just seems really damn odd that Valve would change the terms in such a way that it specifically affects only the titles of their console publishing partner. The reason for this is because most developers have released their DLC, traditionally, through GFWL or not at all. There's been an increasing shift to Steamworks, since it's the ideal DRM, but, in addition, Valve and Microsoft appear to have worked out a deal similarly to Gamestop's DLC sales thing. Basically, Valve sells you a code which you then register on Xbox.com, and can download through the GFWL Marketplace. That's how I got Fable 3 and the DLC (in part because I'm hoping good sales of Fable 3 on Steam will encourage Microsoft to put their not-inconsiderable library of old PC games up there, and maybe Alan Wake. Yay pipe dreams.) this last week, for instance. Basically, Microsoft and the GFWL DLC providers don't really suffer, because this infrastructure is already in place. EA prefers not to do the middleman at all. Plus, it's cheaper to cut out the middleman, and it's also cheaper to avoid having to work out the infrastructure required to support buying DLC from Valve. I mean, they'd have to rework a bunch of these games' DLC systems from the ground up, and at least two of these games, Crysis 2 and DA2, were released well before Valve's policy change in June. Last I checked, you can't buy EA DLC from Gamestop either, except for, maybe, 360/PS3 codes that work for those platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Perhaps they only worked on Portal 2 on the PS3 grudgingly. Also, Gabe may be the top man at Valve but he is not Valve as a whole. That's always one thing that people don't differentiate when quoting these sorts of people. They have their personal opinions (which of course can change what the company does) and they have their business decisions (which can be different than what their personal opinions would lead them to do.) I read in an interview that it wasn't a business decision to go onto PS3 at all. A few of the workers at Valve had some experience with PS3 and independently got Portal 2 code working on the platform just for kicks, and they went ahead with it because the guys were passionate about it. That led to Steam support and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSeuss Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 That's cool, and one thing that makes Valve's business methodology awesome. The flip side is, of course, no phone support for Steam and only one SP game in the past three years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 See I've not bought any GFWL games off Steam. I own Fallout 3, but that was bought on disc so Steam never got involved and New Vegas shifted to Steamworks. Same kinda happened with Dawn of War II. I didn't know the DLC was just a GFWL code despite being sold through Steam. Kinda throws more stuff on the "why just EA effected?" pile. Portal 2 is SP and came out just over 6 months ago. btw any of you guys know the average time it takes from joining the forum to realising why most of these types of question are directed at Thursday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Took me 6 months, Dean. And yeah, Portal 2 was not only singleplayer but also one of the best games I've played in a long while. L4D1, 2, and Alien Swarm can all be played singleplayer as well (though I don't particularly recommend it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I got GTA IV, Flatout and SFIV which are GFWL titles on steam and have had no issues with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4: Gritty Reboot Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 My copy of Bioshock 2 wouldn't validate for a while on GFWL through Steam, really frustrating because it wouldn't let me save a singleplayer game. Arg. It straightened itself out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSeuss Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I didn't know the DLC was just a GFWL code despite being sold through Steam. Kinda throws more stuff on the "why just EA effected?" pile. ...ex...cept for the fact that Microsoft implemented this infrastructure due to a deal with Gamestop on the 360. Portal 2 is SP and came out just over 6 months ago. Congratulations, you've just named the game I was referring to! What, exactly, were you trying to say by pointing this out? I said Valve has made only one SP game in the past three years. That game would be Portal 2. Four years ago was Episode 2, which wasn't even a full game. And yeah, Portal 2 was not only singleplayer but also one of the best games I've played in a long while. L4D1, 2, and Alien Swarm can all be played singleplayer as well (though I don't particularly recommend it). It sounds that you, like dean, are smugly suggesting that I missed a game... Too bad Portal 2 was the game I was referring to, right? I got GTA IV, Flatout and SFIV which are GFWL titles on steam and have had no issues with them. Personally, I've had issues with Fallout 3 and some RTS game that sucked. Other than that, Steam and GFWL tend to work pretty well together. How did we get on this tangent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted October 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Because you decided to respond to questions not aimed at you? Which going off P4 could carry on for another 4 and a half months :/ Also they've only released 1 MP only game in like 4 years. Everything else they've made is Single player or both. Also this one is directed at you: What does gamestop, the 360 and MS have to do with anything Steam/EA related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSeuss Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Hey, forums are public discussions, no? If they're not, that would make PXoD a bit of an anomaly. Unless the questions are like, "Hey, person, how do you feel about this thing," and definitely personal, what's it matter who answers? Also they've only released 1 MP only game in like 4 years. Everything else they've made is Single player or both. In the past three years, Valve has released three games. Of those games, two are multiplayer games with bot support for solo play, those being Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2. They are no more single-player than Unreal Tournament was. That leaves Portal 2. In the past four years, yes, they also released Portal 1 and Episode 2, neither of which were full games, but that's besides the point, because the Orange Box is still easily the greatest gaming deal I've ever seen. Also this one is directed at you: What does gamestop, the 360 and MS have to do with anything Steam/EA related? (I realize that my paragraphs can be dense at times, so I'll spread them out in order to avoid going off onto tangents. Hopefully I'll write less dumb.) Right, so, you know how Gamestop wanted to sell DLC? They worked out an agreement with Microsoft and Sony. Microsoft, as you know, has Games for Windows. Prior to Fallout: New Vegas's shift over to Steamworks, most games used GFWL for their DLC (Bioshock 2, Fallout, etc). After New Vegas went Steamworks, a lot of games started using Steamworks. DLC is all digitally distributed, and games published on the PC didn't have a unified platform for DLC distribution, the way that the 360 or the PS3 had. As a result, most publishers went with GFWL. When Gamestop worked out this DLC arrangement, Microsoft had the infrastructure for allowing others to sell DLC (through the whole "add code" business) in place. So, I can walk into Gamestop, buy a code, and get DLC for a game using Live (360 or PC) easily. Basically, it's really easy for most publishers to sell their DLC on Steam now, because they either use Steamworks or can sell it through the previously dominant PC DLC delivery platform, GFWL. That requires the least amount of work. Things are different, however, for EA. For the most part, EA did not use GFWL (Bulletstorm is an exception), they used their own distrubution services. Most of their DLC wasn't on the PC at all (Dead Space 2). When they did extensive PC DLC, it was done almost exclusively through the Bioware store. EA's PC DLC infrastructure is set up to use their own systems. GFWL's DLC is set up to be purchased elsewhere. Thus, it was easier for GFWL to adapt to Valve's abrupt TOS change in June than it was for EA. Valve made the change in TOS to avoid F2P gameplay providers offering DLC outside of Steam (the kind of "greed" that most people enjoy accusing EA of). They basically tried to render competition impossible and force everyone to do DLC through Steam; EA wasn't equipped to make that change without incurring great cost, so they instead just moved everything to Origin. Valve's TOS was altered after Origin's announcement, and that TOS is why Crysis 2 got removed. EA hasn't changed the way they do business, Valve has. If anyone engineered this situation, it's Valve. As much as I love using Steam, I really dislike what they've done here. Interestingly, a large number of people said that competitors ought to shut up when Steamworks-powered games were removed from stores like Impulse. The idea of businesses removing products that advertised their competitors was somehow objectionable when Steam was the target, but now that Steam is the perpetrator of such actions, EA's the one getting all the shit, and it sucks. Fanboyism ought to go die in a fire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/01/31/wait-what-valves-games-now-on-impulse/ Valves games are on Impulse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffles Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here's hoping they get put on Origin and make EA look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 lol, it's not like they can put it on Origin without EA's permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/valves-gabe-newell-talks-wearable-computers-rewarding-players-and-whether-w So "Penny Arcade Report" is now active, and brings an interview with Gabe Newell. Got him talking on his role in Valve, how Valve works, game development, and my favourite: hardware development. This is part of their work on the bio-rythmics stuff they've been talking of in the past as well as them looking at "wearable computing". Seems they want to expand into that a bit, but trying not to have to go into hardware business side of things themselves. Also talk of being aware of folks frustration at lack of word on HL3/Ep3/L4D3. Just read it okay, there's like 3 pages to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorrrr Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 People are annoyed about a lack of L4D 3? We all know that if Gabe came out and announced that tomorrow people would start a very angry mob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDex Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 I think that was just an example to avoid mentioning HL:E3 on its own. I hear what you're saying though, people would be very angry if the first Valve franchise to get a second sequel wasn't Half-Life. That was a great interview though...Granted, Gabe didn't really say anything that he hasn't really said before but it was nice to get an updated look at his thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Anyone heard about the sign-language stuff? My flatmate just came in, and as I was telling him the goss about AC3, he said apparently for HL3 they're doing work on animating sign language into the game, getting professional signers and stuff to do mo-cap; Alyx Vance's friend is deaf or something in the game. If true: ingenious. The way they innovate communication with the player in that series is just stunning. Edited March 2, 2012 by kenshi_ryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 That's pretty old news. I remember reading about it years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Pah, trust him to have old news. I haven't been keeping up to date on anything in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I hadn't heard it before. Sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Rat Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/2/2840932/exclusive-valve-steam-box-gaming-console It all makes sense now... They want Half-Life 3 to be a console launch title! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 So my reaction at the end of reading that article was: I don't necessarily doubt that Valve might be coming up with such a ...device*. Just that throughout the entire article they never once mentioned that the "Steambox" is a...... . Intel Processor - check 8GB of RAM - check Nvidia GPU - check Runs Steam - check Runs Origin and others - check USB controllers - check** Outputs to TV - check Open platform with no license fees - check. Plays PC games - check. Then again the way many talk of PC gaming they probably don't realise that PCs come with HDMI ports (or that HDTVs tend to come with DVI/VGA), and that you can use a 360 pad (and many others with some tinkering) perfectly fine on a PC. *I do highly doubt it though. It's not an outright impossibility, but it is stupid. It'd make much more sense to have something like "Steam certified PC". Bit like the Windows Logo Program and the (planned and failed) GFW certification. Put a sticker on the side of the Dell and have it pre-installed with Steam n TF2 or something. As Verge quoted from the PAR article, there's much better companies suited to hardware design. In this case the many OEMs that already make desktops and laptops that run Steam and PC titles already. **Doesn't that controller they show already exist? *Googles* Yep. http://www.engadget....ppable-thumbst/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 It's a Steam branded PC with Valve software is what I'm getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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