The day I stopped loving Nintendo

[Yantelope]

Or rather, the day Nintendo stopped loving me?

 

I'm just wondering, I know there are probably other people out there too, who grew up on Mario, Zelda and the other franchises but who now play more Playstation, Xbox or PC games. I'm just wondering if you still consider yourself a Nintendo fan or if you've moved past that. I'm not saying you don't play Nintendo anymore, but their place as the king of your videogame world is a distant memory.

 

I'll add my own story a little later, got work to do now.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Yantelope

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I waited fourteen hours for the Wii. Worst gaming decision of my life. Been an adamant fan since the NES, only to have any faith shattered by what was a poor launch and what remains — with few exceptions(x: HH) — a poor library. Nintendo did their thing with sufficient marketing to casual players, and that's fine. The trouble is that the salvo of casual games alienated most "gamers" which alienated most non-casual developers which alienated me.

 

And really, the motion controllers(Wii Remote, Kinect and Move) are all needless and mostly poorly realized crap anyway.

[TheMightyEthan]

I think a tweet of mine from 2 days ago sums up my feelings.

[Johnny]

I pretty much agree with Ethan's feelings on the subject.

[Yantelope]

Man, that's how I feel too right now. Great point. Of course, the sad fact is that SEGA's old core games suck now...

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, but Sonic kind of floundered around the transition to 3D and never really recovered. Mario and Zelda have both already successfully made the transition (depending on who you ask, anyway), so there's no reason they wouldn't be able to continue to have the same quality level on other consoles.

[excel_excel]

Eh, for me Nintendo is still the king. There's a magic to their games that hasn't disappeared, the gameplay is always rock solid in any of their titles, its never based on engines or to look the best. I never want them to go the way of Sega. If all you play on a Nintendo console in Mario and Zelda then whats the point? They have other games on their hardware you know.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Not going to argue preference, but I put forth a damn genuine search. There were games like Elebits, Metroid, Rune Factory(sorta), Sin & Punishment, Kirby's Epic Yarn and Twilight Princess(sorta). Still, I shouldn't need to go spelunking to find a decent video game.

[FredEffinChopin]

They haven't been king in my eyes ever since (and during) the N64. They don't seem to care much about anything else once they get their Marios and Zeldas in line, and while those series have spawned some of the greatest games ever, I need a real library on my console. I shouldn't be able to afford every single good game a system has to offer. Losing the FF franchise really was the beginning of the end for them, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'd love for them to reclaim that crown, or at least put up a good fight for it, but the WiiU seems to indicate the opposite. They want to create another sales phenomenon by wowing people with that half-baked tablet monstrosity instead. Next gen isn't that close, but it's already looking like I'll be in the Sony camp again, or possibly MS if Sony manage to piss me off enough between now and then.

[TheMightyEthan]

Eh, for me Nintendo is still the king. There's a magic to their games that hasn't disappeared, the gameplay is always rock solid in any of their titles, its never based on engines or to look the best. I never want them to go the way of Sega. If all you play on a Nintendo console in Mario and Zelda then whats the point? They have other games on their hardware you know.

That's kind of my point though: the only games worth playing on Nintendo consoles are Nintendo games. I'm not saying Nintendo doesn't make great games, I'm just saying I wish I didn't have to buy a whole separate console just for them.

[Strangelove]

This is kind of a shitty thing to admit, but Ive never actually owned a Nintendo home console until the Wii. Why? For the same reason Ive never owned a 360 - everyone else I know has one. And no, its not elitism, its getting to play the best other systems have to offer for free. I love the first Halo as much as people who actually owned it because I used to go to my friends house and play it almost every day for about 2 months.

I always chose the alternative - Genesis instead of SNES, Playstation instead of Nintendo64, and PS2 instead of Gamecube.

So far i feel ive made the best choices. My real love for Nintendo is in it's handhelds. Ive owned every single iteration of the GB and GBA. I got the DS, then the DSlite, then I stopped. I got older and had my own job and had to pay for my own shit and realized how much of a waste getting these Nintendo handheld "upgrades" was. The 3DS has only sunk them deeper into mediocrity in my eyes. Theres just so many things wrong with that system.

That being said, the Wii is awesome and the games are either amazingly great, mediocre and probably better on another system, or awful. There are no inbetweens in WIi games. And guess what? The Nintendo franchise games are the great ones. Third party developers just leave scraps for Wii owners. We play RE5, Wii owners play those ok Chronicles games, we play Dead Space 1 and 2 and Wii owners play Extraction(Which I actually love, but not as much as DS1 and DS2), and shit like that just keeps going on.

 

The saddest part is that a lot of good games get brought up to great status by the fanboys because its on the Wii and maybe they dont own a 360 or PS3 and dont know any better. I dont know what their deal is. I guess starvation can make a dirty boot taste like pumpkin pie. I personally hate this because they try to convert people and convince them into buying a system with a listful of great games, when in reality that list could probably be cut in half.

By the way, I actually like the Wiimote. I own Move too. Im actually onboard these "motion gimmicks". So yeah, I dont know what to think of it either. Except that the WiiU isnt being bought anywhere near launch day by me.

 

 

Id also like to say that to me they havent really represented gaming as a whole since the SNES. The Playstation 1 was when I truly become a gamer, when I realized that it was one of my passions in life. While people were playing Mario 64 I was playing MGS, something I had truly never seen before in my life or even imagined. Mario in 3D? Not that big of a stretch to me. Though even with Galaxy 1 and 2(which are awesome), i dont think Mario has ever been as great since his 2D platforming days.

Nintendo pushes a lot of neat innovative things and other people copy them, but I doubt theyre the future of this medium.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Strangelove

[RockyRan]

Anyone who read my gigantic rant a few months ago on this forum (or read any of my Nintendo-related posts, really) should know where I stand on this

 

Basically, yes. I stopped giving them a free pass a couple of years ago, and since then I continue to be amazed how much people judge Nintendo games in a vacuum, being irrationally excited at specific features or games that other games on other systems clearly do better. Take the crafting system in Skyward Sword, for instance. People are creaming their pants over it despite crafting systems being as old as dirt and just as overused these past 10 years. But it's in Zelda now so OMG BEST GAME EVAR

 

I re-bought an SNES this summer and I was actually surprised just how in tune Nintendo was with everything, from the games themselves to the hardware design (especially the hardware design). They were truly the masters of pushing hardware limits and gameplay innovation at that particular point in time, whereas today it's simply about regurgitating more trite sequels with one (MAYBE two, if we're lucky) new features as the focal point in their marketing. Take Yoshi's Island on the SNES, for instance. I can list about 20 different game mechanics introduced in that game that made it incredibly different from anything Nintendo had ever done to that point. Had that game been done with today's Nintendo those 20 mecahnics would've been spread out over 20 different games, much like NSMBWii being a generic copycat of the Mario Bros formula but with the one additional mechanic of 4-player co-op as the only thing it really brings new to the table.

[TheMightyEthan]

much like NSMBWii being a generic copycat of the Mario Bros formula but with the one additional mechanic of 4-player co-op as the only thing it really brings new to the table.

Don't forget making you use the Wiimote on its side instead of letting you use the Classic or Gamecube controller. Noooo, that would just make TOO MUCH GODDAMNED SENSE!

[Yantelope]

For me the day Nintendo truly faded was about a year or two into the Gamecube era. I bought the Gamecube out of the gate under promise of tons of great games, not the least of which was Perfect Dark. This trailer had me very excited.

 

 

The N64 may have lost some ground to Sony in volume of games but the best experiences like Goldeneye were still on the N64 and the hardware was clearly superior. What ended up happening with the Gamecube broke my heart. Nintendo ditched Rare, the Zelda game that was demoed didn't get released and Wind Waker didn't come out for a few years and by then it was rushed to market. 3rd party support never picked up because of Nintendo's strange format and the whole system fizzled. I think it was the Gamecube where Nintendo first decided it didn't want to keep making Goldeneye but they had long before that abandoned all other 3rd party franchises I cared about and as a result the GC era was when I finally woke up and realized how long ago Nintendo had stopped loving me.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Yantelope

[CorgiShinobi]

I've never loved a company. That's a little extreme and will only bring trouble once said company begins to shy away from your expectations. No one was abandoned, so yeah, quite frankly I get a little annoyed when people refer to Nintendo as if it were an uncaring father or mother.

 

I don't want Nintendo to go the way of Sega. Even if you argue that Mario and Zelda could sustain themselves on a Sony or Microsoft console some odd years into the future, you lose a lot more. Yes, there is a lot more to Nintendo than just those two series. Quite frankly, in my opinion, Kirby could only survive through Nintendo. Take away the company devices and you're going to see the failing attributes of Sonic. I mean, we're talking about throwing out the cost of buying a home console with the cost of losing so much as to become Sega. Perhaps you're only referring to the process of becoming a "Sega," but look where Sega is now.

 

Seriously, the next Sonic game is heavily relying on nostalgia of practically every significant last game to sell you one Sonic game.

 

Aside from all of this, what Sony and Microsoft don't have is a legacy. Microsoft is still relatively new to the industry and really owes a single franchise, Halo, for it's chance to repopulate into the seventh generation. Sony is a great contender, but they didn't enter my life until I was about 8 years-old. Now they had to compete with Nintendo in my decision for a home console. Nintendo had been around since I could form any tangible memories. Sure, I've played anything "PlayStation," but I've only owned a PS3 and PSP.

 

Yeah, and I know I've mainly talked of "old" Nintendo, but they still have great influence in the industry. All you have to do is look at your Move controller, the "lollipop" Sony said it would never make. Still, I understand people's concerns fully when they talk about getting a console for a few games. I mean, that's what I would be doing if I were going to (finally) get an Xbox 360. See, that's why I do appreciate the Wii in that it's unique in comparison to the other two. For anyone who went PS3-360, one of the two must have been sitting back while you focused more on the other, but only when there were no exclusives.

 

To close, eh... I guess Nintendo's not the "King," but in my opinion, there hasn't really been a King for nearly a decade. Each company does what the other doesn't. There's always a fault you can point out, just as there are qualities.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Atomsk88

[Yantelope]

I've never loved a company. That's a little extreme and will only bring trouble once said company begins to shy away from your expectations. No one was abandoned, so yeah, quite frankly I get a little annoyed when people refer to Nintendo as if it were an uncaring father or mother.

 

Well, it's not an entirely unfair comparison. You do have many good memories spending time with Nintendo and many of us were children so those rose colored glasses shine bright. You kind of form an emotional attachment from all the great times and it sucks when Nintendo is still around but the good times are mostly gone.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Yes, Nintendo does what other companies do not. And that's why it's bothersome that the Wii has such poor library composition. : \ Even considering that many good titles on the PS3 and 360 are multiplatform, having one of those yields more than the Wii. Arguably with exclusives, too.

[CorgiShinobi]

I've never loved a company. That's a little extreme and will only bring trouble once said company begins to shy away from your expectations. No one was abandoned, so yeah, quite frankly I get a little annoyed when people refer to Nintendo as if it were an uncaring father or mother.

 

Well, it's not an entirely unfair comparison. You do have many good memories spending time with Nintendo and many of us were children so those rose colored glasses shine bright. You kind of form an emotional attachment from all the great times and it sucks when Nintendo is still around but the good times are mostly gone.

Yeah, but I'm an adult now and I realize that Mario isn't the President (or Repairman) of Nintendo, along with Vice President Kirby and Assistant Executive Samus Aran.

 

I dunno, think of how one might view Disney as a child, and then as an adult. I'm sure if someone talked to their parents, they could tell them the nitty-gritty of Disney while they, as a child, were fascinated with talking animals and magic.

 

EDIT: After all, when Nintendo "cared" about gamers, Hiroshi Yamauchi was the one in charge and he was the one who touted he never played a video game. I'm sure I've gone on about the guy somewhere before, but in short, the guy was a hardass... a scary hardass.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Atomsk88

[Yantelope]

The problem is that many gamers like myself used to love Nintendo and we wish we still could and it's hard letting go of that.

 

Nintendo shifted its business focus so in a way it did leave me.

 

I'll go back to this quote:

 

No one was abandoned, so yeah, quite frankly I get a little annoyed when people refer to Nintendo as if it were an uncaring father or mother.

 

That's not really true when Nintendo themselves said they're not targeting the core audience they used to target anymore.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Yantelope

[TheMightyEthan]

I don't want Nintendo to go the way of Sega. Even if you argue that Mario and Zelda could sustain themselves on a Sony or Microsoft console some odd years into the future, you lose a lot more. Yes, there is a lot more to Nintendo than just those two series. Quite frankly, in my opinion, Kirby could only survive through Nintendo. Take away the company devices and you're going to see the failing attributes of Sonic. I mean, we're talking about throwing out the cost of buying a home console with the cost of losing so much as to become Sega. Perhaps you're only referring to the process of becoming a "Sega," but look where Sega is now.

When I said "go the way of Sega" I just meant I wanted them to move from a system manufacturer to a pure publisher.

 

I know there's more to Nintendo than those two series, but I don't see why publishing on other people's hardware would automatically mean their games would have to suffer. When you get right down to it, from a game development perspective what difference does it really make whether the studios are developing for a Nintendo owned platform or some other company's platform?

[CorgiShinobi]

The problem is that many gamers like myself used to love Nintendo and we wish we still could an it's hard letting go of that.

 

Nintendo shifted its business focus so in a way it did leave me.

 

I'll go back to this quote:

 

No one was abandoned, so yeah, quite frankly I get a little annoyed when people refer to Nintendo as if it were an uncaring father or mother.

 

That's not really true when Nintendo themselves said they're not targeting the core audience they used to target anymore.

This is gonna sound immensely rude, but you kinda have yourself to blame if you take it personally for Nintendo expanding their target audience. Look at my sentence before that one you've quoted.

 

"That's a little extreme and will only bring trouble once said company begins to shy away from your expectations."

 

Your expectations. A company doesn't technically do what's best for their customer, but what's best for them. That's a business and while it sounds apathetic, it's the true nature of any profit-based industry. Again, Nintendo isn't someone's mother who reaches out with a loving arm; it is a corporation that sells you electronics.

[Yantelope]

See, there's where you're just flat out incorrect. Nintendo didn't expand their audience. Their stated position was that they were targeting only those who didn't ever play games or people who had stopped playing games of which I am neither. They clearly stated that they were no longer targeting the core audience.

 

(I'm going to have to do some scrounging now to back this up... )

Edited October 19, 2011 by Yantelope

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Replace "loving Nintendo" with "buying Nintendo's shit".

[CorgiShinobi]

I don't want Nintendo to go the way of Sega. Even if you argue that Mario and Zelda could sustain themselves on a Sony or Microsoft console some odd years into the future, you lose a lot more. Yes, there is a lot more to Nintendo than just those two series. Quite frankly, in my opinion, Kirby could only survive through Nintendo. Take away the company devices and you're going to see the failing attributes of Sonic. I mean, we're talking about throwing out the cost of buying a home console with the cost of losing so much as to become Sega. Perhaps you're only referring to the process of becoming a "Sega," but look where Sega is now.

When I said "go the way of Sega" I just meant I wanted them to move from a system manufacturer to a pure publisher.

 

I know there's more to Nintendo than those two series, but I don't see why publishing on other people's hardware would automatically mean their games would have to suffer. When you get right down to it, from a game development perspective what difference does it really make whether the studios are developing for a Nintendo owned platform or some other company's platform?

Here's the thing, and I get the feeling when people discuss the "Sega Route," they forget why Sega even went pure development.

 

For Nintendo to become a simple third party for, what would essentially become "The Big Two," something financially troubling and dangerous would have to occur. No reasonable business is going to sit back and go, "You know what? We should downsize and completely renovate our entire strategy so we only sell games!"

 

It's wishing for disaster. For Nintendo to become another Sega should only be wished upon if something terrible happened prior to their decision of being a game development studio. There's that too, Nintendo wouldn't be itself "only smaller." Something would be lost, there's no way of working around it. Also, people talk about how Nintendo treats third parties; how about how Nintendo would be treated as a third party?

 

Not to deride anyone's opinion, but I strongly hold to the practice of "Be careful what you wish for!"

 

Replace "loving Nintendo" with "buying Nintendo's shit".

That's your love, but given fanboyism, it's not always that "love.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Atomsk88

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Not sure I get you there, Atom. Initially, I thought it was understood that we didn't actually "love" Nintendo. Then I saw that some people did. Which is fine. I'm just clarifying my position.