Playstation 4

[Yantelope]

NES: two controllers, one game: $130 1986

SNES: two controllers, one game: $200 1991

N64: two controllers, one game $290 1996

GC: two controllers, one game one memory card $330 2001

Wii: two controllers, one game $310 2006

 

 

PS1: one controller one memory card: $330 1995

PS2: one controller one memory card: $330 2000

PS3: one controller with HDD: $500 2006

 

Xbox: one controller and HDD $300 2001

Xbox 360: one controller and HDD $400 2005

 

This is more a more fair linear progression of like costs of investment than master dex's post IMO. If someone wants to inflation adjust this that'd be fine by me.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Yantelope

[deanb]

If someone wants to inflation adjust this that'd be fine by me.

Kinda like the inflation accounted for in "MasterDex's rather lengthy post a couple pages back."

 

Regarding you poking 10 holes in it, why don't you bring out 30 years of iSupply breakdown data then? The reason why we go off MSRP, the same MSRP you've just used in your last post might I add, is because it's the easiest to compare because they all have an MSRP but only a couple have breakdown of cost.

 

Having consoles grouped in generations due to their release date is arbitrary? You do know what arbitrary means right?

Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

So for example a system of time, like the launch dates.

 

The PS4 is not "the first console to break the 5 year system". The 5 year thing, now that's arbitrary. It's also been known for a very very long time that this gen will last longer than those preceding. You can't delay something that never had a proper date in the first place. Nor can it be delayed on your misplaced assumption of a strict 5 year cycle.

[DocSeuss]

Ugh. I hope its 2014 or later. I think weve plateaued. Everything just gets shinier and rounder from here on out. Its not going to change gaming in any significant way.

 

Oh, I guess we can have 64 online players in our FPS like the PC...umm..yaaaaay. Ugh.

 

That notion seems highly prevalent amongst gamers (ie. that there's not much advantage beyond better graphics with next gen consoles). Better processing units and greater and faster amounts of memory will mean that we should finally be able to significantly advance certain aspects like AI, interactivity and overall complexity. The major hurdle right now, I believe, is that the industry and community at large still see better graphics as the sign of advancement and pursue better graphics as a result. Hopefully this generation, the industry can look past the graphics and make advances where they're truly needed.

 

 

This. A thousand times this.

 

Processing power isn't just used for graphics, and even then, we've got a long way to go. Look at games like Uncharted 2: It looks fucking UGLY at a distance (lots of simple buildings that are just blocks, really low-quality textures, etc) because it's incapable of handling both the insane amount of up-close detail as well as the stuff at range. Games like Halo: Reach manage to do both (not well, mind), but don't have as much detail up close.

Having played Rage... well, more power would allow better Megatexturing, which is why that game absolutely blows away every other game on the market in terms of games-looking-as-detailed-as-concept-art.

 

Then there's the AI issue: AI requires LOTS of ram and processing power, and most games just aren't capable of making kickass enemies, or, worse still,

 

Also, with more power, games could actually be produced more quickly, because you could begin to implement stuff like raytracing for lighting (thus not having to bake shafts of light into the map; just create a light source, and bam!), better procedural animations (meaning you don't have to mocap animations), and so forth. It also means better visual effects and can ultimately open up new ways of playing a game.

 

Consoles have incredibly bad physics--I refuse to play games like Mirror's Edge or Arkham Asylum/City on my consoles because their ability to simulate physics properly is so absolutely crappy compared to what my PC can do. Check out this stuff showing off how much better Arkham City is with physics on the PC.

 

Every time someone says we don't need more powerful, I feel like I oughtta smack 'em. I remember when Flight Simulator 1998 came out and the tagline was "as real as it gets." We're nowhere near as we could be, and it isn't just in terms of how shiny our textures or how detailed are character's faces are.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Hey wait, off-topic here, but what if you don't have a Nvidia card? Can I still get those physics for this specific game?

[deanb]

Also, with more power, games could actually be produced more quickly, because you could begin to implement stuff like raytracing for lighting (thus not having to bake shafts of light into the map; just create a light source, and bam!), better procedural animations (meaning you don't have to mocap animations), and so forth. It also means better visual effects and can ultimately open up new ways of playing a game.

 

Consoles have incredibly bad physics--I refuse to play games like Mirror's Edge or Arkham Asylum/City on my consoles because their ability to simulate physics properly is so absolutely crappy compared to what my PC can do. Check out this stuff showing off how much better Arkham City is with physics on the PC.

I wouldn't be getting too far ahead of ourselves. Raytracing is still very much in the realm of films only. Don't forget Intel had a shot with Larrabee for ray-tracing and had to scrap it because it was just so crap compared to the raster cards already on the market. You can do real-time ray-tracing if you game is nothing more than a ball moving around a room, but that's about it. rasterisation will pretty much always be ahead of ray-tracing for real time graphics.

 

 

Hey wait, off-topic here, but what if you don't have a Nvidia card? Can I still get those physics for this specific game?

Nvidia PhysX? It's very much their own exclusive thing. Havok is cross-platform though.

[MasterDex]

Hey wait, off-topic here, but what if you don't have a Nvidia card? Can I still get those physics for this specific game?

Nvidia PhysX? It's very much their own exclusive thing. Havok is cross-platform though.

 

And it's produced by an Irish company!

I was wondering something the other day when watching that Arkham City Physx trailer. Can an ATI user buy one of the old Physx cards and use it to get the good physics or are those unsupported now by new Physx games?

[deanb]

Unsupported as of a while ago.

[Chronixal]

The PS4 is going to be interesting to speculate on over the next few month/years. I'm not going to guess on matters of GPU/CPU and specifics like that as most of it goes over my head but I would hope to see the blu-ray drive to be significantly improved in terms of read speed. Either that or game installs will be even lengthier and more frequent than they are already.

 

Price is going to the stickler. I'm sure Sony are loathe to have a repeat of the $599 debacle and but are obviously going to need to cover the costs of parts and whatnot. My guess is likely between $400-500, being as close to the latter as possible without it appearing to sting too much. If they're liable to make too much of a loss on the production of each, is it likely we'll see free PSN being thrown out the window? It's possible, if unlikely being key leverage over Xbox Live.

 

Something I would like to see happen is Sony enforcing a strict 720p or higher standard for games running on the PS4. As Dean said above, even now there are a selection of games running at sub-HD resolutions even now and hardly any that run at 1080p (off the top of my head, Wipeout HD and...?). Improved 3D will be nice too. At present, resolution and framerates are sacrificed to make it possible - again going back to Wipeout, it goes from 1080p @ 60fps to 720 @ 30. Bit of a shame.

[deanb]

I would hope to see the blu-ray drive to be significantly improved in terms of read speed. Either that or game installs will be even lengthier and more frequent than they are already.

It's only slow because it was a generation 2X drive compared to a DVD 12X (though the speeds aren't comparative, a 52X CD is way slower than DVD 12X). Current blu-ray drives can do 8X speeds (so much faster than DVD max)

 

hardly any that run at 1080p (off the top of my head, Wipeout HD and...?). Improved 3D will be nice too. At present, resolution and framerates are sacrificed to make it possible - again going back to Wipeout, it goes from 1080p @ 60fps to 720 @ 30. Bit of a shame.

Actually WipEout HD chooses frame rate over resolution, it'll dynamically change the resolution in order to maintain 60fps.

[Mal]

Seems like most people are firm that the PS4 should be at most $499.

 

And I'm realizing how silly it is to discuss what's the hardware is going to be like since I really can't think of anything new the PS4 can bring to the table. Hardware improvements are expected. It almost sounds like talking about the new hardware of an iPhone...

[Strangelove]

I feel almost certain itll be under 400 dollars. I cant see ANYONE releasing a 500 dollar console nowadays, unless there are different models. But im sure a model of the PS4 will be under 400 or exactly 400.

[madbassman39]

Another thing that will be amazing on new hardware, that the current hardware can't do, is highly detailed objects from a far draw distance.

[Mal]

If what dean said of about 8GBs of RAM, being 6GB of RAM and 2GB of VRAM, for a 2013/14 PS4 is correct then yeah, we certainly can see that. Hell, during that time a $400-500 (If its under $400, it'll be at $395 or $399. How they jerk us so...) console surely can cram that in.

 

Be odd to see a console having roughly the same specs as my current PC though, of which I plan to have around in 2013/14, not sure if I will add in more RAM and new GPUs though..

---

A console, say the PS4, with 6GB of RAM and 2GB of VRAM should be able to do more with that than say my current PC, I would think. Reason being it has less stuff to run in the background. So improved AIs should show up too.

Edited October 24, 2011 by MaliciousH

[madbassman39]

---

A console, say the PS4, with 6GB of RAM and 2GB of VRAM should be able to do more with that than say my current PC, I would think. Reason being it has less stuff to run in the background. So improved AIs should show up too.

 

Thats what people seem to forget when it comes to consoles. People always say "Looks good for 5 year old hardware" when in reality when the system is doing nothing but one item at a time, it should be comparable to more modern specs than what they actually have in the machine. Sure the systems are getting a little aged looking now, but we still get some games that look phenomenal, regardless of it being a PC or PS3/360.

 

I'm getting ready for the next generation of consoles, I've had my ps3 for 5 years and my xbox (which I got for free) for almost 1 and a half years. It also helps that I had a taste of working full time in my field at great pay, so price will be less of an issue than the last generation was when I bought in. I know my case is exclusive to me, so my opinion may be a tad different than others, but I'm just saying I am ready. Until then, I have Skyrim, BF3, ME3, Uncharted 3, and a few other games that will tie me over.

Edited October 24, 2011 by madbassman39

[deanb]

Be odd to see a console having roughly the same specs as my current PC though, of which I plan to have around in 2013/14, not sure if I will add in more RAM and new GPUs though..

How "current" is your current PC though. Don't forget consoles tend to launch out the door a fair bit better than the average PC of the time. And the date pinned to the PS4 is 2014

[Mal]

My PC is going to be a year old in December. So its not that old but computer hardware runs on a whole different scale.

[Hot Heart]

will tie me over.

 

*tide

 

Sorry.

[madbassman39]

will tie me over.

 

*tide

 

Sorry.

 

No worries, I had no idea it was tide. Now I know and will be able to correct that in the future. Thanks.

[Thursday Next]

Long time since I commented on this... Sony's PS division was a product service, but that was years ago. Now there is PlayStation Network and PlayStation Certified devices. They have become as much a service operation as they are a hardware one.

 

I agree that physical media will be with us for at least one more generation, but I do think that there's a good chance we'll see the first streaming service come out on PS4 and Xbox 720. I also don't think an experimental PS4go is totally outside the realms of possibility (though it does seem pretty unlikely at this point).

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I agree that physical media will be with us for at least one more generation, but I do think that there's a good chance we'll see the first streaming service come out on PS4 and Xbox 720. I also don't think an experimental PS4go is totally outside the realms of possibility (though it does seem pretty unlikely at this point).

 

Please don't remind me of this horrible direction.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Shut up old man.

[Thursday Next]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw1XJbV2HK0

[TheMightyEthan]

I just skimmed this thread, so I apologize if someone else already said this, but one question that keeps getting asked is "What can better hardware do besides better graphics?"

 

We talked about that in the Xbox 720 thread. The answer is, we don't know what better hardware can do besides better graphics because until the better hardware is there for devs to play with no one is investing the resources in figuring out what they can do with it. It used to be that you could look at PC games to get an idea of what console games could do in the future, but that's no longer the case because almost every major release, the ones where they might really be pushing the tech available, is multiplat now and therefore limited by what the consoles can do.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

DX11 on consoles. That's one thing.

[deanb]

By the time they hit it should really be up to DX12 level(It comes out with Win8). And that's the important distinction. Only the 360, as an MS product, actually uses DirectX. PS3 uses a tweaked version of OpenGL, as does the Wii.