Sonic Generations

[excel_excel]

Sonic Generations has been getting some gooood reviews. And from the videos and demo's the Modern Sonic plays like Sonic Colours which means, greatness. In fact, the modern Sonic bits look to be.....better than the classic Sonic stuff.

 

 

Also some of the music is sublime, listen to this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fONa6Y2V3R0&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8bmRcO9bow

 

Getting it on PC as its supah cheap, what ya all think about it?

[Hot Heart]

I played the modern Sonic (first 3D one I've ever experienced) and thought it was dreadful. Probably takes a bit of getting used to though.

I've seen some later playthroughs and the 3D stuff looks a lot better there. They've even got more of the multiple path stuff going on, which was always integral to the series.

 

My main dilemma is figuring out which platform to get it on. PC is much cheaper but I don't like the d-pad on the 360 pad and I'd probably need it, whereas my PS3 seems to be crapping out now.

Not that I need to buy it right away though. I've got Bastion, VTM Bloodlines and possibly DCUO all lined up. Plus, Uncharted 3 once I sort my PS3 or get a new one, and then Arkam City very soon. Argh!

[excel_excel]

Well it works fine with the analogue stick, modern stages aren't even playable with a d-pad. I've got a big back log too.....but its sooo cheap!!!

[Hot Heart]

I'm not too concerned with the modern stuff and that probably works better with analogue. I think those sections where you have three paths is controller by shoulder buttons as well, right?

 

I've just always preferred the d-pad for 2D Sonic. Might have to give it a go with a thumbstick and see how I get on. If it's berarable, the PC version would be nice.

 

EDIT: OK, I gave classic a go with the thumbstick and it was alright; considering there is now a button dedicated to starting a spin dash so no need to press down on the d-pad. Not sure what you're on about the d-pad not even being playable with modern Sonic. It can be used but I don't think it's quite as responsive if that's what you mean.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Hot Heart

[CorgiShinobi]

If I didn't already have AC: Revelations and Skyward Sword planned for this month, I'd pick this up. The last Sonic game I bothered with was Secret Rings, which in my opinion isn't bad. It definitely had problems, but it was a good game for a while.

 

Generations seems like a true Sonic game rather than, "Random plot + hedgehog = Sonic!"

[Johnny]

So, I... acquired... Sonic Generations for PC last night. These are my first thoughts:

 

At it's best, Sonic Generations does with moderate success ape the classic games, going as far as taking sections of the level design, BGM and sound effects straight out of Sonic 2 and 3.

The Classic sections tries to emulate the controls and feelings of the originals, but fails at achieving the fluidity and momentum felt in those games. You go from stand-still to max speed at the press off a button and instantly from max speed to stop again if you let go.

 

Additionally, the level design does very little to break up the action or force players to be careful. It's all very easy and ends up feeling more than a little on-rails as a result.

Oh, and there's bugs. There was one part where the game just randomly dropped me through a floating platform, at which point I got fed up and quit out of the game.

 

I found the classic sections overall to be pretty boring and see no reason to play them instead of the original games. They serve only for nostalgia value.

 

 

 

Then there's the modern sections. This will be hard to explain if you haven't played a few of the other modern sonic games.

It feels like they took the level design out of Sonic Heroes, but made it more linear, made you only control Sonic, and put it in the horrible Sonic 06 engine.

 

Most of the time you will be simply asked to hold "forward" and press the A button as appropriate to do jumps and homing attacks. You can boost using the X button, but I only encountered one instance where this was useful for anything other than ending the pain of playing a modern sonic game faster. Sometimes they switch up the action by switching to a side-scrolling perspective, making you hold right instead of up on the control stick. Exciting!

 

The real problem comes in when you're asked to control sonic. One touch in a direction that isn't forward, and Sonic goes flying straight off the edge. He is completely impossible to accurately control, and if it weren't for the homing attack, which locks on to wherever you need to go and making the game even more on-rails, the modern sections would be completely unplayable.

 

Overall, and this is the reason this is a forum post and not a review on pressxordie, I played three modern and three classic levels of this and don't think I will ever want to touch this horrible game again. At it's best it's a weak imitation of Sonic 2, 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and at it's worst it's one of the least exciting games I have ever played. Save yourselves the money and play the classics instead.

 

Oh, and I don't have a clue what the plot is because I started skipping cutscenes as soon as I realized Sonic's dumb modern friends was in it.

[Cyber Rat]

Finished it. I'll have a review up after impressions settle in, but here are some preliminary thoughts:

 

A lot of work went into the level design and it shows. There's a very good balance between static and scripted elements, you aren't punished when you make a mistake, but rather, you jump on a new, lower path. If you fail multiple times, you'll eventually reach the "bottom" of the level after which it's death. In general, getting speed isn't a problem, but making the jumps is important. The levels are very fluid. I think the game shined especially in the Modern Rooftop Run level, as I everything went extremely smooth until I made a mistake and pretty much ruined my momentum.

 

Both Classic and Modern Sonic are alright, but, as expected, Modern Sonic still has handling issues. I had a lot of pitfall deaths for some stupid reasons, like lock on deciding the enemy I was going towards wasn't fun anymore and stops targetting it.

 

Story is alright. Nothing amazing, nothing awful. The "big reveal" was quite nice.

 

It takes a 4-5 hours to beat the main game, but I wouldn't be surprised if the challenges would rack it up to 10. There's just that many of it.

 

Oh, and you can unlock old Sonic music and play it in any level. That's an excellent touch.

 

All in all, it's not the return to glory. I don't think the "return to glory" will ever happen unless Sega gets into the console market again. But it's a very good platformer. As someone who has despised everything after and including Sonic Heroes, I can recommend it.

 

at it's worst it's one of the least exciting games I have ever played.

 

So, you've pretty much only played Half-Life 1 your whole life and never any other game I'm sorry, but the way you made it sound is quite overboard in negativity.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Cyber Rat

[Hot Heart]

Oh, and you can unlock old Sonic music and play it in any level. That's an excellent touch.

 

As in, any old Sonic music?

 

I'm sorry, but the way you made it sound is quite overboard in negativity.

 

You've met Johnny before, right?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Hot Heart

[Cyber Rat]

You can unlock Sonic music and then play it on any challenge or stage. Not sure whether it's every song ever, but I know there's stuff like Sonic Boom, Sonic 2 Special Stage, Emerald Hill...

[Hot Heart]

Sweet! I love the Special Stage music for Sonic 2. Can't imagine playing it for a whole level though.

 

This, however...

 

[CorgiShinobi]

As someone who has despised everything after and including Sonic Heroes, I can recommend it.

Ugh, don't remind me of Sonic Heroes!

 

Seriously, have I told anyone on PXOD (or previous) about how Sonic Heroes is the only game that has resulted in a broken controller through a raging Falcon Punch?

 

Yeah, that's how I lost my WaveBird. (Generations seems to have fixed the grinding, like, by TENFOLD!)

[excel_excel]

Well I haven't got far, but finding it fun, story is nicely scripted and some nice touches, particularly Classic Sonic's reactions to people. Modern Sonic is very Sonic Colours which I love, and classic 'feels' right. Its not like a perfect copy of Sonic 1 and its not trying to be, but its a fun 2D sidescroller. One thing....is way way waaaay too easy to get an S rank in levels. NOW TO PLAY MORE!

[Thorgi Duke of Frisbee]

Looks fun!

[Johnny]

*sighs* I'd appreciate it when I make a long-ass post that people explain what they dislike about it. A downvote without comment is the least constructive criticism imaginable.

 

So, you've pretty much only played Half-Life 1 your whole life and never any other game I'm sorry, but the way you made it sound is quite overboard in negativity.

I found the most on-rails sections to be horribly boring. Literally, one of the least exciting things I've experienced in a game. It is not an exaggeration of how boring I found it.

[Cyber Rat]

Here you go Johnny:

 

At it's best, Sonic Generations does with moderate success ape the classic games, going as far as taking sections of the level design, BGM and sound effects straight out of Sonic 2 and 3.

 

The level sections you are talking about boil down to trademark layouts usually at the start of the level. For example, the first bit of Green Hill Zone until you pass the two bridges with robot piranhas with Classic Sonic. After that, the levels are completely different. The BGMs are remixed songs, which makes sense considering it's revisiting old levels, while the only songs copied verbatim are the unlockable ones, which are selectable. As for sound effects, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they had changed it, people would complain how old Sonic's jump never sounded like that.

 

The Classic sections tries to emulate the controls and feelings of the originals, but fails at achieving the fluidity and momentum felt in those games. You go from stand-still to max speed at the press off a button and instantly from max speed to stop again if you let go.

 

Actually, there's an ability that lets you stop in your tracks. Otherwise, the only instance I found that happening is when Classic Sonic bugged out on slopes. It didn't happen that often, but enough for me to notice. I don't know it's because you haven't gotten that far or because you're bad at the game, but the level design is such that when you time it right, it does achieve fluidity. However, the physics are completely different, and I found myself running more than rolling compared to Sonic 1-3. Whether that was intentional or not, I don't know. It's neither good, nor bad, it's just different.

 

Additionally, the level design does very little to break up the action or force players to be careful. It's all very easy and ends up feeling more than a little on-rails as a result.

 

You played three levels, right? Aside from Sonic and Knuckles, even the classic games had piss easy starts. And we were kids back then. How many games do we have under our belt now? The later levels actually require you to pay attention, but like any good time-based game (since, when you've finished everything, it becomes a time trial game), it rewards you for good performance, rather than making you pause every single moment. The level design is excellent.

 

Oh, and there's bugs. There was one part where the game just randomly dropped me through a floating platform, at which point I got fed up and quit out of the game.

 

Yep, there's bugs. I didn't encounter falling through platforms, but I had some targeting issues with modern Sonic and some slope issues with classic Sonic. However, Sonic games were always big budget and they always had bugs, so if this is to prove how it's worse than the classic titles, it's kinda silly because games like Sonic 3 had way too many bugs. More than here. It was like Sonic Team's trademark.

 

I found the classic sections overall to be pretty boring and see no reason to play them instead of the original games. They serve only for nostalgia value.

 

So, when you played Resident Evil 1 (if you did), did you play 2 and 3? Because there's no reason to play those over the original, according to this statement. Because you have 3 levels from Classic Sonic's era, and everything else is from different games. IE, you have stuff like City Escape or Rooftop Run in a pure 2D layout made for Classic Sonic styled gameplay. That's not in the original games. If you don't care about levels, then just replay Emerald Hill on Sonic 2 to infinity? I mean, it's all the same game. Heck, just play Super Mario Bros.

 

Then there's the modern sections. This will be hard to explain if you haven't played a few of the other modern sonic games. It feels like they took the level design out of Sonic Heroes, but made it more linear, made you only control Sonic, and put it in the horrible Sonic 06 engine.

 

I played Sonic Heroes and this is a blatant lie. A complete and utter lie. I haven't played Sonic 06 (thankfully), but I know how unplayable that thing was, and I would surely have noticed that in Generations.

 

Most of the time you will be simply asked to hold "forward" and press the A button as appropriate to do jumps and homing attacks. You can boost using the X button, but I only encountered one instance where this was useful for anything other than ending the pain of playing a modern sonic game faster. Sometimes they switch up the action by switching to a side-scrolling perspective, making you hold right instead of up on the control stick. Exciting!

 

Starting levels are easy. Later on, you can't really abuse the boost button and have to actually 1) conserve it; 2) time it well. Again, it's the kind of game where you're rewarded for playing well, and the starting levels are easy.

 

 

The real problem comes in when you're asked to control sonic. One touch in a direction that isn't forward, and Sonic goes flying straight off the edge. He is completely impossible to accurately control, and if it weren't for the homing attack, which locks on to wherever you need to go and making the game even more on-rails, the modern sections would be completely unplayable.

 

I think they'll never get Modern Sonic handling right, but nigh-unplayable? No, it had some issues, a few which caused me to fall to my death, but it's not unplayable considering there's no real penalty in dying. On-rails though would imply there was only one way you could go. There are multiple routes. Far more than in old Sonic games.

 

Overall, and this is the reason this is a forum post and not a review on pressxordie, I played three modern and three classic levels of this and don't think I will ever want to touch this horrible game again. At it's best it's a weak imitation of Sonic 2, 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and at it's worst it's one of the least exciting games I have ever played. Save yourselves the money and play the classics instead.

 

Honestly, I think you went in with some expectations that Generations would attempt to imitate the old games with Classic Sonic. I went in expecting the most godawful disappointment of the year, but I didn't know what to expect from the gameplay. It was pretty obvious that this whole game is a tribute to the franchise, not an attempt to imitate the old titles. I think you completely misinterpreted it and just went with the "Let me compare it with Sonic 2 and 3, and if it's not better, it's awful." From that perspective, yes, it's awful. But with all the bloody insane re-releases of the old games, why would they make them again verbatim?

 

It's not an amazing game or return to glory. There are a ton of reasons why a return to glory won't happen. Sonic was a key franchise, a console mascot and a platformer, which was the same back then as today's shooters. Just the descent from console mascot to company mascot is enough to never put him back there. Heck, if Nintendo went the Sega route and only made games, I guarantee you people would stop holding Zelda and Mario in such high regard. They would soon become highly irrelevant.

 

But it's a very good. The level design is amazing and it has some kinks, but one thing it doesn't try is imitate the Classic games. If that's not obvious to anyone who played it, then I don't really know what to say.

 

But yea, I'm glad you didn't write a review of Generations for PXOD, Johnny, because you're way off the mark and talking complete nonsense. It's like Yahtzee's "review" of Mortal Kombat.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Cyber Rat

[Strangelove]

To be quite honest, Sonic games really need to stop starting out easy and they need to stop using Green Hill Zone as the first level. The last couple of Sonic games Ive played always start like that. Its not the same layout, but its the same level.

I never got the praise of Sonic Colors either. It felt like all I was doing was holding forward and sometimes jumping. Even Sonic & Knuckles wasnt that way. Shit, even Sonic 1 wasnt that way. I played the main Sonic games on my PSP last month, so its still fresh in my memory.

Out of all the Sonic games in the last few years, I still prefer Sonic Rush and even that one had its problems. Maybe the creators of these games have a hazy memory, but Sonic did platforming. A LOT of platforming. You actually had to stop to jump around and find your way through some of the levels.

 

And you know what? Yeah, ive only played the demo of Generations and I didnt even finish the second level of Colors, but that's not my fault. These Sonic games need to stop being so damn sad and linear in their first level. Sonic 1's Green Hill Zone had more platforming and overall needed more thought than any of the recent Sonic games. That to me is a problem. Holding forward isnt fun. Simple as that.

[Thorgi Duke of Frisbee]

"a blatant lie"? "a complete and utter lie"? I'm not sure if an opinion you disagree with could be called a lie...

[TheMightyEthan]

All in all, it's not the return to glory. I don't think the "return to glory" will ever happen unless Sega gets into the console market again.

It's not an amazing game or return to glory. There are a ton of reasons why a return to glory won't happen. Sonic was a key franchise, a console mascot and a platformer, which was the same back then as today's shooters. Just the descent from console mascot to company mascot is enough to never put him back there. Heck, if Nintendo went the Sega route and only made games, I guarantee you people would stop holding Zelda and Mario in such high regard. They would soon become highly irrelevant.

I'm curious why you seem convinced that somehow a character's relevance/the quality of their games is related to whether or not the publisher owns the platform.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I actually would like to know what you base that on.

[Johnny]

The level sections you are talking about boil down to trademark layouts usually at the start of the level. For example, the first bit of Green Hill Zone until you pass the two bridges with robot piranhas with Classic Sonic. After that, the levels are completely different. The BGMs are remixed songs, which makes sense considering it's revisiting old levels, while the only songs copied verbatim are the unlockable ones, which are selectable. As for sound effects, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they had changed it, people would complain how old Sonic's jump never sounded like that.

 

Not EVERYTHING about my post was actually critical. As I said, I thought this was when the game was at it's best. But I could swear that at least one of the BGM themes were identical to what was in the old game. Could be mistaken.

 

 

Actually, there's an ability that lets you stop in your tracks. Otherwise, the only instance I found that happening is when Classic Sonic bugged out on slopes. It didn't happen that often, but enough for me to notice. I don't know it's because you haven't gotten that far or because you're bad at the game, but the level design is such that when you time it right, it does achieve fluidity. However, the physics are completely different, and I found myself running more than rolling compared to Sonic 1-3. Whether that was intentional or not, I don't know. It's neither good, nor bad, it's just different.

 

Opinion, opinion. I didn't like it.

 

 

You played three levels, right? Aside from Sonic and Knuckles, even the classic games had piss easy starts. And we were kids back then. How many games do we have under our belt now? The later levels actually require you to pay attention, but like any good time-based game (since, when you've finished everything, it becomes a time trial game), it rewards you for good performance, rather than making you pause every single moment. The level design is excellent.

 

I played Sonic 3 last about a year ago. The first three levels of those are, in my opinion, far more challenging and interesting than what is in Generations. Even Green Hill zone did more to punish you for just rushing straight ahead than any of the levels I played in Sonic Generations. Yes, I only played the first three levels and my impressions are based on those. I couldn't exactly base it on levels I didn't play.

Opinion, opinion. I thought the level design was bad.

 

 

Yep, there's bugs. I didn't encounter falling through platforms, but I had some targeting issues with modern Sonic and some slope issues with classic Sonic. However, Sonic games were always big budget and they always had bugs, so if this is to prove how it's worse than the classic titles, it's kinda silly because games like Sonic 3 had way too many bugs. More than here. It was like Sonic Team's trademark.

... Well that totally makes falling through platforms excusable. When talking about bugs, I'm not measuring it against Sonic 2 and 3; I'm measuring it against what a game needs to do to be in my eyes a good platformer. Falling through platforms does not hold up. It would piss me off in any platformer.

 

 

So, when you played Resident Evil 1 (if you did), did you play 2 and 3? Because there's no reason to play those over the original, according to this statement. Because you have 3 levels from Classic Sonic's era, and everything else is from different games. IE, you have stuff like City Escape or Rooftop Run in a pure 2D layout made for Classic Sonic styled gameplay. That's not in the original games. If you don't care about levels, then just replay Emerald Hill on Sonic 2 to infinity? I mean, it's all the same game. Heck, just play Super Mario Bros.

 

I would not play a sequel to most franchises if I saw it as far worse than the original game. I would see that as pointless, unless the franchise itself is so amazing that other games do not compare even to the worst part of the series.

I wouldn't play the original Super Mario Bros. over Super Mario World or NSMB, because it lacks things I like from the later games. I think that's the crucial difference, that I actually LIKE the changes they made to Mario over the years.

 

 

Then there's the modern sections. This will be hard to explain if you haven't played a few of the other modern sonic games. It feels like they took the level design out of Sonic Heroes, but made it more linear, made you only control Sonic, and put it in the horrible Sonic 06 engine.

I played Sonic Heroes and this is a blatant lie. A complete and utter lie. I haven't played Sonic 06 (thankfully), but I know how unplayable that thing was, and I would surely have noticed that in Generations.

 

It's not a blatant lie that the level design to me felt like a more on-rails Sonic Heroes. And yes, I did think the 3D sections controlled abysmally bad any time you didn't push the control stick towards sonic's front. None of that was a lie.

 

 

Most of the time you will be simply asked to hold "forward" and press the A button as appropriate to do jumps and homing attacks. You can boost using the X button, but I only encountered one instance where this was useful for anything other than ending the pain of playing a modern sonic game faster. Sometimes they switch up the action by switching to a side-scrolling perspective, making you hold right instead of up on the control stick. Exciting!

 

Starting levels are easy. Later on, you can't really abuse the boost button and have to actually 1) conserve it; 2) time it well. Again, it's the kind of game where you're rewarded for playing well, and the starting levels are easy.

 

I find this continual criticism of my opinion on the early parts of the game, based on later parts I am not commenting on, to be highly confusing. I was not trying to provide an opinion on the whole game, but on the parts I played before I got fed up with it.

 

 

I think they'll never get Modern Sonic handling right, but nigh-unplayable? No, it had some issues, a few which caused me to fall to my death, but it's not unplayable considering there's no real penalty in dying. On-rails though would imply there was only one way you could go. There are multiple routes. Far more than in old Sonic games.

 

Opinion, opinion. I have high standards for controls. You've known me long enough that you probably know this. I found it to be frustrating and nigh-unplayable by my standards.

 

Honestly, I think you went in with some expectations that Generations would attempt to imitate the old games with Classic Sonic. I went in expecting the most godawful disappointment of the year, but I didn't know what to expect from the gameplay. It was pretty obvious that this whole game is a tribute to the franchise, not an attempt to imitate the old titles. I think you completely misinterpreted it and just went with the "Let me compare it with Sonic 2 and 3, and if it's not better, it's awful." From that perspective, yes, it's awful. But with all the bloody insane re-releases of the old games, why would they make them again verbatim?

 

It's not an amazing game or return to glory. There are a ton of reasons why a return to glory won't happen. Sonic was a key franchise, a console mascot and a platformer, which was the same back then as today's shooters. Just the descent from console mascot to company mascot is enough to never put him back there. Heck, if Nintendo went the Sega route and only made games, I guarantee you people would stop holding Zelda and Mario in such high regard. They would soon become highly irrelevant.

 

But it's a very good. The level design is amazing and it has some kinks, but one thing it doesn't try is imitate the Classic games. If that's not obvious to anyone who played it, then I don't really know what to say.

 

But yea, I'm glad you didn't write a review of Generations for PXOD, Johnny, because you're way off the mark and talking complete nonsense. It's like Yahtzee's "review" of Mortal Kombat.

 

I went in with the expectations that this would be another failure, actually. While Sonic Generations is certainly not the worst game in the franchise, I would never call what I played of it good.

Not because it's not Sonic 2 and 3. Ideally, I would not want them to make Sonic 3 again. I would like them to make a sonic game that does new things without fucking them up. Like, say, Mario has evolved over the years. I am comparing it to earlier Sonic games because those are the closest comparisons I can make.

 

But yes, I think, if you make a sequel to a franchise and can't top your 1994 game in the franchise in any category, that's pretty awful. Regardless of if it's Sonic or whatever else.

 

Quite frankly, I'm disappointed. That I have an opinion on the introductory parts of a game, which you disagree with, should not warrant such a venomous response.

[Cyber Rat]

All in all, it's not the return to glory. I don't think the "return to glory" will ever happen unless Sega gets into the console market again.

It's not an amazing game or return to glory. There are a ton of reasons why a return to glory won't happen. Sonic was a key franchise, a console mascot and a platformer, which was the same back then as today's shooters. Just the descent from console mascot to company mascot is enough to never put him back there. Heck, if Nintendo went the Sega route and only made games, I guarantee you people would stop holding Zelda and Mario in such high regard. They would soon become highly irrelevant.

I'm curious why you seem convinced that somehow a character's relevance/the quality of their games is related to whether or not the publisher owns the platform.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I actually would like to know what you base that on.

 

It's just the impression I got. People seem to be more involved with a franchise the more a franchise is one of the platform's "faces". All the Uncharted review score drama going around that got me thinking. People are so adamant to defend something platform-specific that it creates hype and, in turn, seems to create a specific atmosphere. Uncharted, Gears of War, Sonic while Sega still made consoles, Mario, Zelda, the point of those franchises, in addition to being entertainment, is pushing forward the system they're on. The moment Mario or Zelda were to start being available on PC, PS and Xbox, I think it would be a step down from the "relevant" category and people wouldn't care that much for the games.

 

tl;dr: I'm basing it on buyer's remorse and publisher hype. Sega has no motivation to hype Sonic games now beyond being Sonic games, and it was a mascot made to promote a console. It'll never reach such a level of relevance again, in my opinion, unless it creates some serious revolution in the platformer genre.

 

@Johnny: it wasn't meant to be venomous. Like I said on Steam, sorry if it came across like that, but I honestly don't agree with most of what you said (and I didn't say that the platform bug was ok).

 

And just because it's an opinion doesn't mean you can't be wrong.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Cyber Rat

[Johnny]

You're confusing opinions and facts, and for that matter misunderstanding the very webcomic you're linking to.

 

The guy in the black t-shirt in that webcomic is taking a factual statement and calling it opinion. When he says that it can't be wrong, he's wrong because he's not discussing a matter of opinion, but a verifiable fact.

When I'm discussing me finding the level design boring and on-rails, I am not discussing a matter of fact, but a matter of opinion and can therefore not be objectively wrong.

The webcomic is making fun of people who use "it's an opinion" to cover from faulty knowledge about facts. It is not saying "all opinions are objectively verifiable."

[Cyber Rat]

And, like I said on Steam, you are either lying or blind. The level design was good. It had more paths than the old Sonic games even. It rewarded good performance and mistakes didn't always result in death, but rather new paths. That's not even close to the definition of on-rails. So yes, you are wrong.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Cyber Rat

[Johnny]

Calling people who have different opinions than you blind and/or liars is extremely classy.

[Hot Heart]

A bit on Sonic level design.

http://www.vgthought.com/?p=335

 

I'm not sure if what I've seen of Generations is as complex as some of this, but I have heard to that effect (if you've seen Tiller ranting about it on Kotaku), and I have seen Green Hill Zone has at least three paths (when it doesn't funnel you into some more guided sections). Although I can't say the classic games always had entirely separate paths through levels.

 

Of course, a lot of this may not be apparent straight away but I encourage you to compare the playthrough by GamesRadar in the video here: http://www.gamesrada...rations/?page=2

(admittedly, he is using some kind of boost power-up to go even faster but that doesn't negate the fact there are different routes going on)

 

And something on YouTube here:

 

 

EDIT: Map of the original Green Hill Zone for reference: http://www.soniczone...ghz-act1map.png

Edited November 7, 2011 by Hot Heart

[TheMightyEthan]

All in all, it's not the return to glory. I don't think the "return to glory" will ever happen unless Sega gets into the console market again.

It's not an amazing game or return to glory. There are a ton of reasons why a return to glory won't happen. Sonic was a key franchise, a console mascot and a platformer, which was the same back then as today's shooters. Just the descent from console mascot to company mascot is enough to never put him back there. Heck, if Nintendo went the Sega route and only made games, I guarantee you people would stop holding Zelda and Mario in such high regard. They would soon become highly irrelevant.

I'm curious why you seem convinced that somehow a character's relevance/the quality of their games is related to whether or not the publisher owns the platform.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I actually would like to know what you base that on.

 

It's just the impression I got. People seem to be more involved with a franchise the more a franchise is one of the platform's "faces". All the Uncharted review score drama going around that got me thinking. People are so adamant to defend something platform-specific that it creates hype and, in turn, seems to create a specific atmosphere. Uncharted, Gears of War, Sonic while Sega still made consoles, Mario, Zelda, the point of those franchises, in addition to being entertainment, is pushing forward the system they're on. The moment Mario or Zelda were to start being available on PC, PS and Xbox, I think it would be a step down from the "relevant" category and people wouldn't care that much for the games.

 

tl;dr: I'm basing it on buyer's remorse and publisher hype. Sega has no motivation to hype Sonic games now beyond being Sonic games, and it was a mascot made to promote a console. It'll never reach such a level of relevance again, in my opinion, unless it creates some serious revolution in the platformer genre.

Ah, that makes some sense. Not sure I agree with you, but I see where it's coming from now.

 

Interesting that you picked GoW instead of Halo though.