US Politics

[deanb]

So what does it take for people to care? Does he personally have to punch a hadicapped person while urinating on the American flag? It just seems like nothing he does bothers his supporters.

 

[Thorgi Duke of Frisbee]

Does he personally have to punch a hadicapped person while urinating on the American flag?

That would probably make him more popular. YouTube sensation!

Edited March 15, 2012 by DukeOfPwn

[Thursday Next]

Not sure that fudging your budgets counts as lying. He's guilty of being blindly optimistic, but that's about it. What's he supposed to say? "We've been quoted $900b but we all know that's crap so we've set aside $2t."? All that would do is guarantee that you'll hit your $2t and then some because your contractor knows what their real budget is.

[Yantelope V2]

Not sure that fudging your budgets counts as lying. He's guilty of being blindly optimistic, but that's about it. What's he supposed to say? "We've been quoted $900b but we all know that's crap so we've set aside $2t."? All that would do is guarantee that you'll hit your $2t and then some because your contractor knows what their real budget is.

 

It wasn't exactly framed that way. It was more like this:

 

Republicans: There is no way to pay for this bill

 

Democrats: It's only going to be $900B and we are replacing $900B through cuts in medicare.

 

Republicans: No, it's going to cost 2 trillion dollars we can't pay for this.

 

2 years later, CBO: The actual cost is really 2 trillion.

 

Republicans: There is no way to pay for this bill

[TheMightyEthan]

We could raise taxes on the wealthy. Or at least close loopholes so Mitt Romney is paying less than me.

[Battra92]

We could raise taxes on the wealthy. Or at least close loopholes so Mitt Romney is paying less than me.

 

Wow, you paid more than $6.2 Million dollars last year? Dude, can you spare me a few dollars until payday?

 

I really don't get why you're stuck on the "Tax the rich! They can afford it!" meme. Even if the government took all the wealth of the top 1% it wouldn't pay for our government. Serious spending cuts MUST happen!

[deanb]

[Yantelope V2]

Yes, tax the rich, nobody cares that 45% of americans pay nothing. Apparently that's "their fair share". At any rate, there's currently no way to pay for Obamacare and it is going to result in higher taxes unless repealed. It's already resulting in higher health care costs across the board and as a result it's grand total achievement is lower standard of living for every american from worse healthcare and higher tax burden. Great policy making at its finest.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Yantelope V2

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Worse healthcare? How does it get worse than none?

[Battra92]

Worse healthcare? How does it get worse than none?

 

No one in America has no healthcare.

 

Some may not have health insurance but everyone has access to some form of health care.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yes, tax the rich, nobody cares that 45% of americans pay nothing.

 

You know that's not even true right? http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

 

45% of Americans paid no federal income tax in 2010. They still paid state taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes, etc.

[Yantelope V2]

Yeah, nobody bleeds to death dying the streets here. The other great thing in america, not having to wait 19 weeks for a simple referral like say Canada.

 

http://www.washingto...th-care-reform/

 

"Because doctors would receive a flat annual fee for each patient, they’d have a direct financial incentive to keep their patients healthy - or more cynically - to limit the care they provide.

 

That’s exactly what has happened in Canada, which implemented such budgets in the 1970s. Last year, Canadians were waiting to receive more than 941,000 procedures. The average total wait time between referral from a primary care physician and treatment by a specialist reached 19 weeks in 2011. That’s more than double the wait time in 1993."

 

I seriously think that you UK residents and Canadians love your healthcare because you don't realize how bad you have it.

 

@Ethan: Property taxes, sales taxes, state incometaxes and all of the other things you mentioned are not going to go to pay for this Obamacare. Federal projects are funded by federal income tax.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Yantelope V2

[TheMightyEthan]

As for the Romney thing, you know damn well I meant that he only paid 13.5% income tax rate. Oh no, he paid $6.2M out of his $50M income! Now he only has $43.8M to spend on whatever he wants! Cry me a fuckin river.

[TheMightyEthan]

@Ethan: Property taxes, sales taxes, state incometaxes and all of the other things you mentioned are not going to go to pay for this Obamacare. Federal projects are funded by federal income tax.

 

Oh no, I understand that, I just wanted to point out that it's VERY misleading to say that they paid no taxes.

[Yantelope V2]

As it pertains to balancing the federal budget it is entirely accurate to state that almost half of people pay nothing especially as it pertains to raising taxes on the rich.

[Yantelope V2]

As for the Romney thing, you know damn well I meant that he only paid 13.5% income tax rate. Oh no, he paid $6.2M out of his $50M income! Now he only has $43.8M to spend on whatever he wants! Cry me a fuckin river.

 

As you're talking about federal taxes. Clearly you didn't factor in all the other taxes he paid? Clearly that is not his total tax burden.

 

 

Update: Found a good rebuttal online

 

http://www.tnr.com/b...ouble-price-fox

 

Makes me wonder exactly how the number work out. I really don't want to bother actually reading the CBO's report.

 

Update 2: Hmmm, This is directly from the report "Offset in part by about $0.4 trillion in receipts from penalty payments, the new excise tax on high-premium insurance plans, and other budgetary effects (mostly increases in tax revenues)." So they've added $400 billion in extra taxes. Yikes. Didn't remember them touting that loudly. I'm sure that wont have any kind of negative impact on the economy.

 

Update 3: more talk about other revenues are coming from elimination of tax credits. That's an effective tax increase too, so basically there's a ton of new taxes in here to pay for the $2 trillion dollars of additionally spending.

 

Update 4: I think it's also worth noting that we're spending 2 trillion dollars to bring the % of insured people up 10% to 90%

Edited March 15, 2012 by Yantelope V2

[TheMightyEthan]

Update 4: I think it's also worth noting that we're spending 2 trillion dollars to bring the % of insured people up 10% to 90%

 

And I know this is a value judgment, but imo every penny is worth it.

 

Oh, and just so you don't think I'm ONLY saying tax the rich, I think my taxes could stand to go up too, and I am definitely not rich.

[Battra92]

Update 4: I think it's also worth noting that we're spending 2 trillion dollars to bring the % of insured people up 10% to 90%

 

And I know this is a value judgment, but imo every penny is worth it.

 

Oh, and just so you don't think I'm ONLY saying tax the rich, I think my taxes could stand to go up too, and I am definitely not rich.

 

 

Alternately, my sister ended up owing to the IRS so I'm sure she'd be happy if you paid her taxes.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Deanb

[deanb]

Question:

I know in the US "The rich" get's the euphemism of "job creators", is there any tax related incentives for these "job creators" to actually...create jobs. Or is it more of a "we have the funds to get many people into work, but whether we actually use those funds to do that or not doens't actually matter".

 

Cos that seems a fair deal to offer something like that. Don't necessarily pay higher taxes, keeping your cash from the money grubbing gov't and unwashed masses, but getting to direct your funds into worthwhile society building endeavours at your own discretion. If your paying your cash as a salary to those that were unemployed instead of as taxes fudning those out of work then it cuts down multiple issues:

• lowers unemployment
  
• stops you from having to fund jobless degenerates
  
• employed people can pay shit for themselves n carry their weight
  
• no need to put your cash directly to inefficient gov't
  
• keep your lower tax rates.
  

edit:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303863404577281483630937016.html

$100 to use the TSA express lane for frequent flyers.

[TheMightyEthan]

Alternately, my sister ended up owing to the IRS so I'm sure she'd be happy if you paid her taxes.

 

We've been over this: I don't want to pay more for the sake of paying more, I'm willing to pay more to contribute more to society. Me contributing more so that your sister can contribute less defeats the purpose.

[Mister Jack]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/15/american-isps-to-launch-massive-copyright-spying-scheme-on-july-12/

 

Seriously, what the fuck?

[TheMightyEthan]

Already brought up in the piracy thread, doesn't seem to bad to me. I mean it's obviously not perfect, but it is several steps down in the level of insanity from previous content industry approaches. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out in practice to see if the EFF's fears are justified.

[Mr. GOH!]

The rich financially benefit more from living in an ordered society provided by government. It makes sense that, as they accrue more benefits, that they pay more taxes. I do not see why this is hard to understand. and taxing folks who cannot afford to pay is fucking retarded, Yant.

[Thursday Next]

"Spying" pah. Like how the police "spy" on me when I'm in the privacy of my own car breaking the speed limits so they can "catch" me in the act.

[Yantelope V2]

The rich financially benefit more from living in an ordered society provided by government. It makes sense that, as they accrue more benefits, that they pay more taxes. I do not see why this is hard to understand. and taxing folks who cannot afford to pay is fucking retarded, Yant.

 

I don't believe that 45% of americans cannot afford to pay any taxes.

 

How do the rich financially benefit more from society than any other person who lives in society? What benefits do they accrue? If you're talking about money then what should be fairly obvious is that as people provide goods and services to society. The only idiotic thing would be to punish people for providing goods and services to society. How is that not obvious?