Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 IE: people are not rational. Proabably still a durr but it cuts both ways, even to those who only believe in science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Just to get back a bit but you don't "believe in science". That's not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 Well, we're going back to an old old argument but I'd argue that's exactly how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I "believe in science" in the sense that I believe that a rational, methodical, objective approach to studying the universe will bring greater understanding of how it works. But yeah, that doesn't mean that any given theory is true (edit: or that any given person is always right, because they're not). Even putting aside that sometimes people will be intentionally deceptive, there's also the fact that humans make mistakes, or even beyond that people make perfectly reasonable inferences based on available data without knowing that they're missing critical bits of info. Edited April 2, 2012 by TheMightyEthan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffles Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 I believe in evolution. I don't believe in creationism. I dunno, asking people if they believe in "science" seems like they're trying to distort results a bit. Science is a big fucking thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I believe in science. I don't believe in scientists. I think the notion of something being settled science is ludicrous. Everyone thought Newton's laws of motion were settled physics and no one could dare question them and then we learned about things that were smaller and smaller and BAM! here comes quantum mechanics. I think many scientists do themselves a disservice in acting like Pharisees of the Temple of Junk-Science. They think they serve science by calling attention to themselves with their latest "finding" using shoddy methods or creating a big headline while using doctored data. Instead, they discredit their field and make the average person look on them as what they are; colossal asshats. The one group of people I trust the least in this country below all other are those of the press. I'd trust a toothless bum to give me a more factual account than NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) The scientists who grab the headlines and distort findings are a minority, in my experience. But I agree they tarnish the reputation of empiricism and the scientific method as much as scriptural literalists tarnish the reputation of faith and religion. Edited April 3, 2012 by Mr. GOH! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 That's quite a loaded juxtaposition there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post deanb Posted April 4, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgi Duke of Frisbee Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 http://motherboard.vice.com/2012/4/9/the-white-house-wants-to-imprison-the-cia-agent-who-blew-the-whistle-on-torture?utm_source=mbtwitter Fuck everything about this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I'm torn about stuff like that. Waterboarding is bad and we shouldn't do it, and I'm glad it was revealed that we do it, but at the same time I recognize that you can't have your government employees (especially those in the military and intelligence) substituting their own judgement about what should and should not be kept secret for that of their superiors. Ultimately, while maybe there ought to be prosecutions of those responsible for the program as well, I think it's probably right to prosecute Kiriakou. At the very least we need those people to know that there are serious consequences for breaking security, and so if you decide it needs to be done it had better be for a good enough reason that you're willing to go to prison over it. Edited April 10, 2012 by TheMightyEthan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Man, fuck that. If they're not going to prosecute the people who were actually behind the waterboarding, then there is no excuse to justify prosecuting the whistleblower. This is just sour grapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I don't really like Colbert much but I thought this was good. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/181202/november-15-2005/formidable-opponent---torture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Man, fuck that. If they're not going to prosecute the people who were actually behind the waterboarding, then there is no excuse to justify prosecuting the whistleblower. This is just sour grapes. That's a bad line of reasoning. The fact that one person isn't being prosecute shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for somebody else. Like I said, they probably need to be prosecuting people running the program too, but that doesn't let this guy off the hook. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I get what you're saying, but what I'M saying is that you can't have it both ways. If you're gonna hold one person responsible, you gotta hold them ALL responsible. I would sooner see this guy get off scot-free for leaking national secrets than see him be the only one who goes to prison over this whole torture affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 One of the worst things about waterboarding is that since it came out that the CIA were doing it Hollywood can't stop putting it in films/TV shows etc. It has become the go-to torture method. I think Whistleblowers need to be protected. By turning on your employer you are already taking a massive risk, you're giving up your livelihood, you're probably never going to work in that industry again and if it's the military / secret service you're betraying then I think you'd feel quite justified in being afraid for your life. There should not be the threat of prosecution on top of all that. Unless of course you revealed secrets that pose an actual threat to national security. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I agree that in general whistleblowers need to be protected, but in the military an intelligence agencies there are countervailing considerations that imo outweigh the need to protect whistleblowers. In my experience people, even educated, otherwise intelligent people, are absolutely retarded about what they believe it is and is not legal for the government to do. I don't think we should be giving people carte blanche to substitute their own judgement about what is or is not legal and what is or is not an "actual" threat to national security for that of their superiors. Even if you only give immunity to people who disclose actual illegal activity everyone is going to believe that that's what they're doing and that they're in the clear until they actual do it and find out they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I agree, there definitely needs to be a balance. While people in the security services and others need to respect the chain of command, the penalties for disobeying orders and revealing secrets should not be overly punitive where there is good cause for it. This particular case seems to be one where the leak was justified. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Santorum just quit. Looks like it's Romney vs. Obama. Can we get a poll up on here showing who we think will win? Not who we're voting for but just who we think will win. I think Obama runs away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Done. Also Romney be the rich one right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 R. Money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Yeah, he's the guy who said "I'm not as big a fan of NASCAR as some people, but I'm good friends with several team owners."* *Paraphrasing from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battra92 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I think Santorum ran a great campaign considering that he had no support from the movers and shakers of the party and that he started with almost no money. I do hope he's able to return to private life and take care of his daughter, whom I hope lives a long and happy life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantelope V2 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'd never heard of Trisomy 18 before. Sounds truly tragic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffles Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I think Santorum should have to carry his dead campaign to full term, myself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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