Comic Book Geeks

[SomTervo]

No worries! It was my favourite comic for a long time. Unfortunately it stopped being my favourite comic at the end, but it's still goddamn great.

[Mr W Phallus]

Edit:Should probably have made it clearer, @Kenshi about physical/digital reading.

 

It's a mixture of cost and convenience for me. I'm sure there's probably a great comic book shop somewhere in Manchester, though hell if I'd know where to find any, but in general I find they're pretty rare. Then say you manage to find a comic book shop, and find the time to actually visit the comic shop (and bear in mind I'm pretty damn lazy), you've then got to face the extortionate cost of most comics (For example, Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? cost me £10.99 and is a mere 128 pages long, I read it in about an hour), bearing in mind of course that comics can vary massively in quality - especially a superhero series which changes writers regularly - so you're not guaranteed to actually enjoy the comic. You can go the cheaper route, of course, and buy from amazon, but then you have the issue of possible damage (I'm quite anal when it comes to keeping books pristine, not that it's ever possible to), plus you can't flick through it at all, you might not even like the art style. Finally although comics in physical form have the benefit of being tactile - which is certainly nice - there are also advantages to the digital format, in particular with double page panels the lack of a page join is often welcome. The Scott Pilgrim comics are actually better quality in the version I downloaded (although I still bought them anyway, they were too good not to).

 

I think I mentioned before in this thread that I never download Batman comics, I only buy them, but to be honest I'm considering completely forgoing that rule and simply buying the stories I enjoy the most in the form of collected editions after I've downloaded and read them. At the very least it will save me looking at my shelf and wondering whether Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader? was really worth the 11 pounds I spent on it.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Mr W Phallus

[SomTervo]

Yeah man it's not worth saying that you'll buy all of a certain character's stories if it's a DC/Marvel mainstream one. They vary in quality far too much. I only buy the ones that are said to be great, and I do that for all comics.

 

I completely understand, for years I only downloaded too. It's only recently that I've had the income to buy comics- plus I went to Kapow comic con where everything's extremely cheap. I'd argue that every comic is better handheld, even just the action of reading it will be better- but with some comics yeah, you don't lose much at all by reading digital.

[Hot Heart]

I remember when I started reading comics and X-Treme X-Men was one I downloaded (I was still buying others at the time). Definitely glad I did not buy that.

[toxicitizen]

I was gonna say, FLD, Phallus et al., reading comics on computers is good for the story and speed, but you miss out on 75% of the experience. It's so tactile and tangible on paper. Just amazing. AllStar Superman I recommend in trades. It's just gobsmacking how beautiful it is on glossy paper.

 

I have no doubt about that. Though at the moment I'm unemployed and fairly broke.

But some of the Batman stories I've read were amazing, and I am definitely planning on buying them whenever I'll be able to afford them.

 

The only thing I hate is after looking around a bit, it seems like hardcovers can be pretty difficult to find unless the book's just come out.

Which seems weird. As a kid, when I used to be really into graphic novels (though not the same kind), they were all hardcovers.

Softcover TPBs just feel kinda cheap to me :/

Edited May 11, 2011 by FLD

[SomTervo]

Yeah it's always an issue. And yeah, surprisingly hard's are indeed hard to come by. They must be on relatively limited printings, I imagine they're expensive for the labels to print.

 

Softcover's not as nice, but I've found in most cases the difference is negligible. I'm going for hards of AllStar Superman, because it needs it. And Ex Machina because I love it so much. But all my Batman's, and my Watchmen and V, and others are soft. It's still good shit.

 

Although my copy of V for Vendetta- signed by David Lloyd, with an incredible mini-portrait sketch of V- has a dog-ear D=

[Mr W Phallus]

I'm a soft man myself. Although if any one has the hardcover Killing Joke, I hope you've looked under the slip cover. Beaut.

[deanb]

These were classic when I was younger.

(moved it since I realised it'd make more sense here)

[toxicitizen]

Oh, and since the batman thread isn't getting much action and I don't want to double post, I'll just say this here.

 

I finished reading The Dark Knight Returns a few days ago. And frankly, I feel the same way about it did as I did with Year One.

 

They're both quite good, but I really don't understand why they're regarded as "the best batman stories ever told".

I thought stuff like The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs and The Long Halloween were much, much better.

Edited May 12, 2011 by FLD

[Hot Heart]

I can see what you're saying, and I don't hold Frank Miller's 'story-telling' in very high regard, but those stories were quite important in their time as well as going to areas other writers might not have before.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Hot Heart

[SomTervo]

That's fair enough FLD, I think Miller is such a "fast-and-loose" pulp comics man that a lot of the time his storytelling is more going for impact and speed than substance. I felt like that about moments in the Dark Knight Returns, specifically the opening scene and a couple of the action scenes.

 

But really what Miller did was create the Batman character as we know him today, in a mature sense. Nolan's Batman Begins is pretty much all Miller's Batman.

 

The character already existed as 'The Darknight Detective', who did lots of detecting and beating folks up- but he's never had the gritty and realistic treatment Miller gave him. As a real-world type of character. I mean the obsessive extents to which he went to become the perfect anti-crime machine, the constantly thinking and planning mentality always one step ahead of everyone else, the slight madness and psychological problems (obsession with Dick Grayson and children etc.). The first time I read the Dark Knight Returns, it redefined Batman in my mind (specifically:

the bit when he beats Superman, the smug eejit, in the most satisfying way possible.Only Batman could do that, and that storyline was unprecedented in comics at the time.)

The second time I read it I noticed how politically astute it was and how clever the story was. Stuff in that comic still resonates today- the attempted attack on Gotham's twin towers; the President being a holiday-resort showman (hello Donald Trump).

 

I just thought it was amazing. And Year One didn't redefine much, but again brought Batman and Gordon down to realistic characters totally at odds with their social, political, and criminal environments. With plenty of pulpy action thrown in. I'm pretty sure Miller also invented Batman's "outwitting" style of fighting that is such a huge focus in later works, and things like Arkham Asylum. But yeah sometimes it's almost too pulpy, as is Miller's style. You guys hear about Miller's new story?

 

It's called Holy Terror, Batman! (though now I believe it's just Holy Terror!), and it's about Batman fighting off an Al-Qai'Da attack in America. Man, Miller's one edgy bastard.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a soft man myself. Although if any one has the hardcover Killing Joke, I hope you've looked under the slip cover. Beaut.

 

Me, me! Will look when I get back home.

Edited May 12, 2011 by kenshi_ryden

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, okay, when you guys put it this way it makes a lot more sense.

I guess I didn't realize the importance and significance of those stories because I'm reading them two decades later.

The way you say they redefined Batman is the way I already see him.

 

I mean, I've known of Batman ever since I was a kid. I grew up watching the Tim Burton and *shudder*... Joel Schumacher movies, so I've always been familiar with the character. But the Nolan movies are what made me into the fan I am today. Arkham Asylum as well, to some extent, as far as introducing me to some of the more obscure villains like Zsasz or Calendar Man (through the in-game bios). I mean, I'd never heard of Ra's Al Ghul before Batman Begins.

 

Oh and that Miller Al-Qaeda story. Is that not out yet? I remember first hearing about it years ago.

Miller might be edgy, but holy crap is he slow to release stuff

 

edit: oh, seems it's "cancelled", as in, still being worked on, but it's no longer a Batman story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Terror,_Batman!#Batman_removed

Edited May 12, 2011 by FLD

[Hot Heart]

Is he really slow? I know the All Star thing was very slow, but I thought that was more to do with Jim Lee being incredibly busy.

 

Or was Miller just losing the beermats and napkins he must have been writing the thing on?

[Mr W Phallus]

Just finished the Shaman storyline form Legends of the Dark Knight and its definitely going on my to buy list. I'm not a huge fan of the 80s style art overall, but there are a few moments where the it really shines. Also the covers, with the individual layers shattering were great.

[toxicitizen]

Is he really slow? I know the All Star thing was very slow, but I thought that was more to do with Jim Lee being incredibly busy.

 

Or was Miller just losing the beermats and napkins he must have been writing the thing on?

Well, I remember reading that Miller was known to take his sweet-ass time to release stuff.

Of course, that could just be a by-product of him being both the writer and artist on most of his projects.

 

In other non-bat news, I took a break from superheroes and starting reading Y: The Last Man two days ago. I'm impressed.

I was familiar with Vaughan from his work on Lost and from having read a little bit of Runaways a few years back, but this is just mind-blowingly excellent.

Yesterday alone I read like a third of the damn series.

Edited May 13, 2011 by FLD

[Mr W Phallus]

Finally got round to starting Y: The Last Man after all your rave reviews. I'm only 6 pages in but there's already been a reference to Bad Lieutenant and Serpico. I think I'm going to like this.

[SomTervo]

Yeah, Y: The Last Man is amazing. I recommend Ex Machina as well, and Runaways is great too. I always forget he wrote that! I wonder when he'll return to comics writing...

 

Good that my Dark Knight Returns explanation helped, FLD yeah I heard Holy Terror! wasn't a Batman story anymore. I think DC disowned it, too. Miller's most recent quote on it was saying that it had developed into something much larger than a Batman story- but I think he said Batman will still feature in it?

 

@Phallus: Good call on the Killing Joke's inside cover. Fucking quality. I universally prefer undercovers to dust covers for any book. Makes it so much classier and intriguing. I hate dust covers. Just a pity they're so useful D=

Edited May 18, 2011 by kenshi_ryden

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, Y: The Last Man is amazing. I recommend Ex Machina as well, and Runaways is great too.

Y was such an amazing series. I was actually sad when I finished it

And I absolutely second Ex Machina. I started reading it almost as soon as I finished Y and it's just as amazing.

In some ways, it's even better. I'm not quite halfway through it yet, though.

 

 

I returned to superhero stuff, though instead of going back to DC I started reading some Marvel.

Got the Marvel Noir and Marvel 2099 books. Also, since they've only been running for 10 years and seemed much easier to catch up on, I got some of the Ultimate stuff. I've only read Ultimate Iron Man so far (and really loved it), but I was wondering what you guys think about the Ultimate Marvel brand as a whole?

I was thinking of starting Ultimate Spidey next.

Edited May 18, 2011 by FLD

[King Jimmeh]

The old Ultimates stuff is very good. They had a big crossover called "Ultimatum" in 2009, and then all the Ultimate books started to come with the heading "Ultimate Comics", and they just haven't been as good.

 

Ultimate Spidey, X-Men, Fantastic Four and Ultimates 1 & 2 are all very good though.

[Mr W Phallus]

Completely powered though Y, I was up to 4am last night finishing it. Man, that was a bitter-sweet ending. Sure for it's pretty positive for the fate of mankind womankind (barring the Iranian nuclear threat) but pretty damn tragic for Yorrick himself.

 

I really enjoyed The Ultimates Vol. 1 but never picked up any of the others. I used to read Ultimate Spidey and Ultimate X-Men as well but I don't remember whether they were particularly good to be honest. I was young, naive and fairly new to super hero comics so I'm sure I'd have enjoyed pretty much any old crap.

Edited May 19, 2011 by Mr W Phallus

[toxicitizen]

Completely powered though Y, I was up to 4am last night finishing it. Man, that was a bitter-sweet ending. Sure for it's pretty positive for the fate of mankind womankind (barring the Iranian nuclear threat) but pretty damn tragic for Yorrick himself.

 

Hahaha, I know, right? I actually teared up a bit when

Yorrick euthanized Ampersand

.

 

Other than that, I read the first arc (7 issues) of Ultimate Spidey and I really loved it.

So far Ultimate X-Men isn't quite as good, but it's not bad either.

 

Anyway, enough superheroes for tonight. Time to get back to Ex Machina, which... I guess is technically about a retired superhero so, umm... Yeah.

Edited May 19, 2011 by FLD

[Hot Heart]

Ultimate X-Men was really hit or miss, even though I liked it when I first started reading comics.

 

I think Vaughn did a couple of arcs on the series but they weren't brilliant. Kirkman and that Heroes writer completely killed the series then Loeb came to blow its remains up.

 

 

I quite liked Ultimate Spider-Man around the same time too (I seem to remember a particularly hilarious crossover with Ultimate X-Men), but I've not had a chance to reread any of that since, so my recollection might be off.

[deanb]

http://marvel.com/vi...son_1_episode_1

 

You need to do some tweaking if you want to watch it in the UK though.

 

http://addons.mozill...refox/addon/967 then:

 

1) In Firefox, Go to tools->modify headers

 

2) From the drop down box on the left select add

 

3) Then enter: "X-Forwarded-For" in the first input box without the quotation marks

 

4) Enter: "12.13.14.15" in the second input box without the quotation marks

 

5) Leave the last input box empty, and save the filter, and enable it

 

6) Click the 'Configuration' tab on the right then proceed to check the 'always on' button.Close the Modify Headers box and it should work.

 

 

 

(these instructions actually work with other video sites, marvel is a side-effect)

[SomTervo]

I liked Ultimate X-Men but never read it past the first tradeback.

 

Ultimate Spiderman is meant to be a brilliant series- but I just hate, hate the art style and cartoonyishness, and the stupid idiot Peter Parker, so I never read it.

 

Also, Dean, great catch! I want to do a marathon of that actually, and Batman: The Animated Series.

Edited May 22, 2011 by kenshi_ryden

[Mr W Phallus]

So I'm in the mood for reading some Spiderman. I have read (and in fact own so may re-read) a fair bit of Ultimate Spiderman but never any of the main canon. Can someone give me a good jumping in point? I mean I want to start at the beginning really but does that mean going right back or has there been a Year One/Rebirth-esque retelling more recently? Obviously Gwen Stacy's death is a biggy but what other must read (or must avoid I guess) stories are there?