Used Game Lockouts?

[Waldorf and Statler]

See you've already started. For me to get all the pc components and build myself a gaming pc, plus a place to hook it up in... it would require way more money than I'm willing to save up and pay.

 

Once I have an engineering job, then yeah fuck it I'll build myself a beast machine.

 

Until then, I have to stick with consoles. And the PS4 hasn't even been announced and it is sounding better than the nextbox.

[Yantelope V2]

The only way this would work is if Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all got on board. If it's just Microsoft, I think this would end up hurting them more than helping.

 

While I agree in theory, MS is the only one that charges for online play and it's actually helped their bottom line quite a bit.

[TheMightyEthan]

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/01/xbox-720-used-games/

 

Brings up an interesting theory as to one possible solution (though requires cooperation of the publishers): selling new codes along with the used game, like Gamestop did with the Catwoman DLC. The idea is that the only (or at least primary) reason publishers don't like used games is because they don't get a cut, so if Gamestop buys activation codes to sell along with the used discs then the publisher gets a cut and is happy. It just means the seller gets less for it and the purchaser pays more.

 

I would not be surprised though if every single retail game on the 720/PS4 is available as a download as well.

[Waldorf and Statler]

Do it the way the Vita does is supposed to do it. Give customers the option to download the game online for a MUCH lower price, or buy a physical copy for reuse and resale for a higher price.

 

Buying codes alongside games makes sense for us. But what about other countries? I know for a fact the video game stores in south america, at least in my country, wouldn't know wtf to do when it comes to this situation unless publishers have a random code generator they can use.

 

More importantly, forcing people to buy new will only INCREASE efforts of piracy. People are stubborn. Having to buy a separate code is only an extra hassle. How much more till we have to buy the game, the code, an online pass, sign up for the game, swear loyalty to hitler, and kick a puppy all just to play the game?

[Thursday Next]

I'll get a PS4. I have a PS3, I'm on the PSN and I've got a load of PS1 titles and minis downloaded. Much like Android I am tethered to the PlayStation by my content, and to a lesser degree by my friends list.

 

I mostly get games new, so this won't have a huge impact. If the publishers / MS are foolish enough NOT to include some form of Used Game Pass then they really need to sort out their business people cos that is a hell of a missed opportunity.

 

I don't really see how it work though. The disc has to be useable offline so MS have to assume that there are consoles out there that have never and will never connect to XBL, so how do you verify your codes? Even if the machine comes with a way to ID all the codes how will MS know if a unique code has been burnt or not? If codes are not unique, then all you need do is find the code by googling for it.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, I can't see how they'd do this either. They may make it so each code can only be tied to one profile online, but I don't see how they could prevent me from using the same code on multiple offline boxes. It'd be just like CD keys were in the 90's/early 00's.

 

Much like Android I am tethered to the PlayStation by my content, and to a lesser degree by my friends list.

I'm tied to Xbox for the same reason. Though as long as I have a working 360 it's not that big a deal.

[Yantelope V2]

They already do this on Xbox with XBLA games. Your content is tied to your console and your ID so once you've downloaded it you can keep playing it offline. You can't keep playing offline on another console though since it's going to check which console the license is tied to everytime you download or copy it to another system. With a disc based system it would have to have some sort of online activation though, there's no way around that. What I don't understand though is that if there is for sure an online requirement then why bother with the optical discs at all?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Yantelope V2

[TheMightyEthan]

But that's what I'm saying: I really doubt they're going to have any kind of online activation requirement for retail games, because they'd be cutting out about 1/4 of their users. Yeah, if they use online activation it would be simple, but I don't think they will.

[Yantelope V2]

If cutting out 25% of their users generates more than 25% more sales by eliminating used game sales then they'd do it in a heartbeat.

[deanb]

They'd need to make up for the loss of 20million or so people, and that works on the assumption that people that are offline are buying only used games, and people online are buying new.

[Yantelope V2]

I dunno, supposedly 77% of Americans have internet access. I think you may be overestimating how many people would not be able to use an online only console.

[TheMightyEthan]

77% having internet access means 23% don't, which is approximately 1/4, which is what I said.

 

Also, as of April 2010 (I know, 2 years ago), 73% of Xbox 360's were connected to the internet in the US. Again, that means 27% weren't, which is approximately 1/4.

[deanb]

Yeah that's internet, like any kind. If you check the chart only 85million have broadband (which iirc is classed as 512kbps in the US), which is actually 27%(though this is 2010). Also it works on the basis that US=blueprint of rest of the world.

 

By Microsofts own figures there's 66million 360s, and 40million XBL accounts http://uk.xbox360.ig.../1216177p1.html Which puts it at 2/3rds are net connected. And that's on the assumption all those XBL accounts are for Xbox(GFWL and Windows Phone use XBL accounts too), and one per console. And before you suggest not all net connected 360s might have a XBL account; what does one do with an Xbox online that doesn't have even a basic XBL account?

[TheMightyEthan]

To be fair, you've got to assume a large number of those 360s are broken.

[Yantelope V2]

Keep in mind that the % of the general population is not really indicitive of the % of the gaming population and I'd wager that the % of the gaming population with internet access is actually a lot higher than even 77%. Additionally, I bet a lot of those consoles aren't connected to XBL just because it's not really necessary, especially if those are being used for small kids or something. The point I'm making is that even if 1/3 don't have accounts that doesn't mean the don't have access or can't get accounts if they wanted to or were made to. Yes, you'll lose some customers by requiring internet access but I doubt it'd actually restrict any significant number of people from getting one.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Yantelope V2

[Yantelope V2]

Hahaha, IGN has gone all TrollOLOL on this rumor now.

 

Apparently buying used games is a "fundamental human right" and their calling this idea a "Crime Against Consumers"

 

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/121/1217310p1.html

[madbassman39]

**le sigh** I stopped reading right after the very first sentence. I want to put this straight, buying a used car is NOT the same as buying a used game. With games, you purchase a license to play the game and a car you are buying a physical item.

 

When something breaks, the manufacturer of the car has potential to sell you the replacement part. During maintenance, the manufacturer has the potential to sell you new parts. These are qualities we will never see in games, the closest thing that you can see in a game is DLC, which is optional and the game is still 100% playable without the DLC, unlike a GM fuel pump for your Chevy, which without the car is a piece of useless metal.

 

On top of all of this, when you buy a used game, you cannot buy a used registration. You have to purchase a new registration for that vehicle, and then every year, pay a fee to continue to use that vehicle legally.

 

As someone who works in a repair shop, you know that GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, Honda... ect... all have not only a chance of selling new parts to used cars, but are more than likely going to actually successfully sell new parts (with profit included) to used car customers. Hell they sell parts to cars that have been bought new.

 

So no, a used car is not the same as a used game. If anyone uses that argument, in my opinion, has already lost my support, even though I support used game sales.

[Waldorf and Statler]

All I know is that a really small part of me wants Microsoft [and only microsoft] to do this. I've needed an extra push to go back to the PS brand for a while now and this might be the trick.

[fuchikoma]

I've gone on record before, if a system uses ANY system that keeps us from playing games without external authorization, they can keep it. Now, I enjoy a lot of downloadable games and it breaks my heart that in several years if my consoles die, they'll be lost - but I understand that, and I can still at least play v1.0 copies of my disc games if I have to replace my consoles. I'm not going to buy hardware to lease software that I can't keep. I collect games. I still play games by studios that are long-dead on systems that are long off the market.

 

If this is what becomes of consoles, I'll just end up plugging a controller into my PC and playing that instead - I'm already pretty used to that as it is. And as bad as the controls on some PC games are (edit: DRM and IP controls), there will always be ones that have a more acceptable licensing model. i.e. actually selling you the games you buy, or physically effectively doing as much.

Edited February 8, 2012 by fuchikoma

[TheMightyEthan]

PC also has the advantage of ubiquitous piracy as a kind of "backup" option if your purchased content becomes unplayable at some point in the future.

[WTF]

Well this is all rumour and speculation but the way I look at it, we know that MS is trying to bring their marketplace to the PC. With Windows 8 they already have a games marketplace on the PC which goes by the name of Xbox and there's been screenshots of Live games such as iloMilo, Hydro Thunder, etc heading to that platform.

 

The way i see how MS will approach the next Xbox is probably going to unify PC and console gaming from their perspective. While steam will still exist they will try to see if they can edge steam out a bit by offering a native windows marketplace from which you can buy content soon as you authorise and install windows. We know the start bar is already gone. The whole used game thing doesn't really happen on PCs anymore anyway and even if you do backup by the next generation it's most likely going to be that you only get half of your game content on the disc and the other half needs to be downloaded and activated. Eventually we are going to find that whatever you do buy physically just won't work whatever device you get it on. It'll be the arm that they'd use to tie content to your account.

 

There's nothing to stop you from selling your console titles and buying used games but you'd probably be locked out of a good chunk of the content for which you'd have to pony up. Technically 95% of my purchases are new anyway so it doesn't personally affect me though it's not something I would entirely agree with. However I can see them tying user discs to content and appeasing customers by giving discounts on the digital versions or even giving it away for free. There's an easy way for them to give it away for 'free' - a new Live subscription tier. This would mean that once you've activated a game on your account+console you can download the digital versions for a nominal fee to free depending on the subscription tier. Anyone buying it used can play some element of the game - most likely anyone buying the game used can only play single player and that too with some content removed. Pay up and you get the whole experience.

 

It's just an evolution of project 10 dollar and the online pass. Sometimes certain things make less sense on the 360. People pay MS to play games online (The extras of Live are primarily there in the US and to a lesser extent the UK - the other markets are pretty much SOL) and then they pay the publishers to play it online in case they bought it used. Consumers are willing to let this exist and in fact they are pleased to see their sales reach ridiculous extents with it. If people want to change, then they need to stop buying the products which would force them to be competitive but I suppose people are willing to let it slide. After all history and trends are written by the winners.

 

I wouldn't blame the companies for most of the things that happen but the consumerist nature of gamers that they are willing to pay these amounts for it. I hope the next generation makes it easier to develop on all platforms and then we might see some real competition. Personally I want it to be a handheld generation with PCs as the main focus in the homespace provided we don't see some stuff happening with windows 8. I'm pretty sure Windows 8 is going to bring some undesirable changes too and not just in the things we've seen.

 

The only thing this makes me realise is that I do feel old and it's not been that long since I was 30.

[Mister Jack]

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/03/28/report-playstation-4-is-anti-used-games-early-specs-leaked/

 

Motherfucker.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I rarely buy used games. Meh.

[RockyRan]

I tend to not buy used games either, but I shudder at the thought of what's going to happen 20 years from now, when people can't play fuck all on their "retro" PS4's because there aren't any new games anymore (apart from the $200 collectibles).

 

So glad for retro (like, right now retro) consoles. No online DRM bullshit, they're durable as hell (hardware AND games), and games are easily obtainable. It'll be a sad, sad day when games released tomorrow will "die" much earlier than a game from 1993, purely because of this shift in business attitudes.

[Mister Jack]

I wouldn't even mind this so much if it meant the price of games would come down as a result, but we all know they won't. Hell, we'll be lucky if they don't go UP in the next generation.