Walking Dead Game

[TheMightyEthan]

I was out of town when this dropped so I couldn't play it right away, and now I keep forgetting about it.

[Mister Jack]

Anyone else finish episode 4 yet?  This one probably had the toughest choices of any episode so far this season, and there were some cases where I was even tempted to reload the save and do it again because I was worried I may have made a really bad mistake.  I didn't, though.  I just hope it all doesn't come back to bite me in the ass in episode 5, which it almost certainly will.

[Connorrrr]

Yep, I played it. I immediately fell like I fucked up multiple times.

 

Obviously epiosode 4 spoilers:

 

 

I robbed the Russian chap. I get the feeling that they would have come for me regardless but I still felt kinda shitty about it. I shot Rebecca. Maybe if I hadn't, the shoot-out wouldn't have started? Who knows.

 

 

I really rather enjoyed it though. 

I saw Kenny in a different light, sorta. That "floating away" line really punched me in the gut. I didn't want to believe that he was cracking like the rest said he was. I get the feeling he's gonna take care of Rebecca's baby now that she's gone.

 

 

I've not been around to read most of this thread. How do people think season 2 is shaping up compared to where we were with season one at this point? To be honest, I enjoyed season one more, if not purely because it was more about Lee and Clem's relationship, whereas this is more... I dunno, just about Clem, kinda? I dunno, I still love it.

[Hot Heart]

Yet to play episode 4. Forgot it came out, so thanks for the heads-up!

 

I'm really enjoying S2 so far. In some regards, I think the writing's a lot stronger, with the various characters and complications. The fact that they manage to keep a little girl as the significant, central character without it feeling too contrived/forced is laudable in itself.

 

I think I prefer it over S1 in that there are tougher choices and not everything is so telegraphed (yet sometimes it really is) but it is a very different dynamic this time around so probably isn't to everyone's tastes.

 

My only real complaint is that there wasn't more Kumail Nanjiani, and that I couldn't help but metagame Bonnie's appearance in episode 2 thanks to 400 Days.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yet to play episode 4. Forgot it came out, so thanks for the heads-up!

Yeah, I had too, it was kind of a stealth launch for some reason.

[Connorrrr]

Speaking of 400 Days... I'm not really sure how that affected S2 that much? I honestly didn't remember much of 400 days, I didn't enjoy it terribly... The only character I actually remember from that was Bonnie... Am I just being forgetful?

 

 

 

I think I prefer it over S1 in that there are tougher choices and not everything is so telegraphed (yet sometimes it really is) but it is a very different dynamic this time around so probably isn't to everyone's tastes.

 

Yeah some of the choices have been quite good.. There's a bit of a disconnect between what I want to do and what I want Clementine to do, whereas when I was playing as Lee I kinda felt our feelings matched. I know that sounds weird because they're both relatively neutral avatars when it comes to those choices that we decide... The main thing I'm thinking of was (Episode 3 spoilers)

sticking around for Carver's death. I (Me) really wanted to stick around for it in a dark, vengeful kind of way because I despised Carver but I also didn't want to corrupt Clementine in that way. I ended up staying though.

 

[Hot Heart]

400 Days

 

A few of the faces might show up in episode 3, depending on who joined Carver's colony at the end. Thing is, I'd already put two and two together, so knew not to trust Bonnie in episode 2. It did make for a tense decision with whether or not to clue Bonnie into the escape plan during episode 3, but I'd already picked up on the fact that she clearly liked Luke.

 

 

See, I've never really felt there was a disconnect between my intentions and how those actions were executed/perceived... except for that choice at the end of episode 1. That was a bit clumsy.

 

Maybe it's partly down to The Wolf Among Us, but I've actually felt that staying quiet has been a more valid option in some instances. Not necessarily the 'best' option, but a logical one that I never really bothered with in S1. Again, could be down to the altered dynamic though...

[Connorrrr]

Yeah I find myself staying silent more than I did in S1... I actually think I never did it in S1... Huh.

 

With regards to Bonnie:

 

 

I'm pretty sure she didn't kill Luke in my game? She seemed fairly nice with my guys and is still with us now? Perhaps that's another 400 days thing?

 

[Mister Jack]

 

Apparently almost 80% of players stayed to watch Kenny beat Carver to a bloody pulp. I'm betting a lot of those players weren't thinking about how it would affect Clementine and just wanted to see Carver die.

 

[CorgiShinobi]

All the 400 Days stuff was in Episode 3, but all it truly amounted to were cameos of the characters you got to join "the group" at the end. However, the inclusion of Bonnie did seem a bit unfair given that we already have some knowledge of her, so even though Clem doesn't know her, we do.

 

I'm also part of that 80% in Episode 3, and while I've wanted to maintain this kind of protective state for Clem still, she's our character now and as Chuck put in Season 1:

 

"I don't know much 'bout you folks, but y'all keep goin' like this and that girl ain't gon' make it. You gotta consider her a living person, that's it! You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart, you're alive."

 

Clem has had to make some immensely grown up decisions in Season 2, especially Episode 4. It is the episode where you're going to feel like you messed up, but the truth is that everyone who died was going to die.

 

 

Seriously, it was depressing as all hell. Though Carlos died at the end of Episode 3, it was still during the escape, so from that moment until the end (where I'm sure someone has died), we had five people die and Jane leaving the group. Speaking of, she turned out to be a great character. She did bring up how groups can being you down. While I disagreed with her, she actually had a point in our circumstance.

 

 

This is about the group and partially why I prefer Season 1 over Season 2.

 

 

Clem ending up with this group has been nothing but trouble. In retrospect, this must be how Christa and Omid felt when joining our group in Season 1. Thing is, back then we didn't have anyone chasing after us. Sure the group was mostly nice people, but it was like they brought the plague with them wherever they ended up. The ski lodge would have remained safe, and while it was great to see Kenny, we ended up bringing death to everyone he became friends with after Savannah. It's not really a question of quality, but story was destined to become one of humanity's strengths and weaknesses of personal weight in a social construct.

 

Clem brings many skills to the table and proves to be a highly capable survivor. The group she joins has: a stalking menace, dysfunctional family affairs, mental instability, poor leadership, and barely passable survival skill. She receives comfort and friendship, but the weight of everyone's flaws brings her down a dark path. Nearly everyone she joined has died as a result from the past that haunted them. Not directly mind you, but in all their attempts to escape Carver, most ended up dying anyway.

 

In hindsight, Lee's story was about the development of groups and facing new challenges brought by being in a zombie apocalypse. There was a goal beyond just survival and everyone was in the same boat. We faced the struggle of what humanity then meant and how people would change. It was like people were discovering a new destiny in a new horrifying world where the rules of survival changed because your worst enemy was the one alive, not undead. In your actions, you were shaping not only yourself, but the future of humanity through a little girl.

 

 

Speaking of a few choices:

 

I guess if you only attacked the Walker, Sarita would live a bit longer, but obviously she would eventually turn. Kenny would then have to relive the memory of seeing another lover dead before him because in the end they say goodbye and Sarita is shot in the head. Myself and a lot of people thought we would stop her turning by cutting the arm, but given anyone would scream, Walkers attacked her further.

 

That was the last real choice because our choices didn't do much for the outcomes on Episode 4. Sarah will always die, though we can prolong to the point where she's crushed and devoured screaming for her father. No matter what you say to Jane, she will leave you. If you didn't rob Arvo, his group will still trap you and it seems Jane may have robbed them. Rebecca will die a few days from child birth, and even though you may have realized shooting Rebecca would start a shoot out, Kenny uses his gun to kill Rebecca and there is a shoot out.

 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Atomsk88

[Connorrrr]

Speaking of a few choices:

 

I guess if you only attacked the Walker, Sarita would live a bit longer, but obviously she would eventually turn. Kenny would then have to relive the memory of seeing another lover dead before him because in the end they say goodbye and Sarita is shot in the head. Myself and a lot of people thought we would stop her turning by cutting the arm, but given anyone would scream, Walkers attacked her further.

 

That was the last real choice because our choices didn't do much for the outcomes on Episode 4. Sarah will always die, though we can prolong to the point where she's crushed and devoured screaming for her father. No matter what you say to Jane, she will leave you. If you didn't rob Arvo, his group will still trap you and it seems Jane may have robbed them. Rebecca will die a few days from child birth, and even though you may have realized shooting Rebecca would start a shoot out, Kenny uses his gun to kill Rebecca and there is a shoot out.

 

 

Very succinct explanation of why our choices didn't really matter. I've long seen through the illusion of choice that these Telltale Games put up. I still appreciate having the choice and therefore shaping my character, even if it doesn't necessarily shape the story.

[Hot Heart]

Yeah I find myself staying silent more than I did in S1... I actually think I never did it in S1... Huh.

 

With regards to Bonnie:

 

 

I'm pretty sure she didn't kill Luke in my game? She seemed fairly nice with my guys and is still with us now? Perhaps that's another 400 days thing?

 

 

 

Not killed Luke. Liked!

 

As in, wasn't sure I could trust her, but since I'd learned she liked him, I figured she wouldn't ruin his escape plan.

 

[Connorrrr]

 

Yeah I find myself staying silent more than I did in S1... I actually think I never did it in S1... Huh.

 

With regards to Bonnie:

 

 

I'm pretty sure she didn't kill Luke in my game? She seemed fairly nice with my guys and is still with us now? Perhaps that's another 400 days thing?

 

 

 

Not killed Luke. Liked!

 

As in, wasn't sure I could trust her, but since I'd learned she liked him, I figured she wouldn't ruin his escape plan.

 

 

 

...Jeez, I must have been real tired when I read that. Okay that makes more sense hahahah.

[Connorrrr]

So Alex Navarro of Giantbomb has posted his not quite review but opinionated recapping of the latest episode here.

 

It's worth a read, he has some interesting opinions on why this episode wasn't so great. I don't necessarily agree with them (I thought it was a fairly good penultimate episode, if not quite leaving me in suspense as much as S01E04 did).

 

The main bits to take away is he feels that Telltale are not doing as good a job on the "illusion of choice" front as they have been doing in the past, and that it is a lot more transparent just how meaningless your choices are in the grander scheme of things. He uses two notable examples;

 

 

He elected not to chop off Sarita's arm. In this scenario, she apparently dies in Kenny's arms only moments after. Kenny was then apparently exactly as angry towards Clementine as though she had chopped the arm off. The dialogue was the same, and the writer says it felt out of place that he was so angry with Clementine for her death when she did nothing to contribute to it.

 

 

 

The second example being the stick up at the end. The writer didn't rob Arvo, but he apparently still accuses Clementine of doing so. I heard there was some confusion about maybe Jane had robbed him anyway, but when Clementine said she hadn't robbed them, it apparently wasn't really acknowledged.

 

 

The thing about all this illusion of choice stuff is that they do need to at least make the dialogue slightly different to reflect on those choices. Something they've usually been pretty good about but who knows what happened there. Thoughts?

[toxicitizen]

Looks like there will be a season 3. http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/07/26/sdcc-2014-telltale-confirms-the-walking-dead-season-3

 

I've yet to start season 2 but I guess that's cool? I haven't heard anything negative about S2 so I assume it's still good.

 

Now I'm getting the fuck out of this thread before I accidentally see a spoiler.

[TheMightyEthan]

Season 2 isn't as awesome as season 1, but it's still great, and definitely worth playing.

[Connorrrr]

Was there ever any doubt?

[Hot Heart]

Honestly, I think I prefer S2 to S1. I mean, both are fantastic, but I think the writing/plotting is generally a lot stronger. There were moments in the latest episode where it was committing the sin of repeating things twice, and some of the same beats from S1 have appeared, but I find the actual character dynamics and interactions far better.

 

Even if there is that illusion of choice, it's all supported by a longer view of the story and I find it impacts me more. More people are given a chance to shine, or are 'fleshed out' (lol) before 'exiting' the story.

 

 

When you were Lee, sure it hurt to see people die, but as long as Clementine was alright, you were fine. Now that I'm Clementine, every death is like a little wound and feels like more of failure... even though you're just a child. Maybe that's just me.

 

 

Gonna start reading through that recap now, but to address those first two points, Connorrrr.

 

 

That is a bit odd about Kenny blaming Sarita in the scenario he chose (I also chopped), but I think Clem supported the plan in the first place... plus, it's Kenny, he's always been a jerk, blaming everyone but himself. I was glad to see the apparent change and he hasn't been such a hassle so far, but I think he dominated the events of S1 too much as he's what I remember most. Just lots of him and Lee butting heads.

 

As for Arvo and the 'robbery'. I didn't take the meds either, but Jane does hold onto his gun, so he's still been robbed of that. They were together, and Clem could be accused of distracting him, so all Arvo knows is that 'they' robbed him. I don't see a problem in the confusion at all.

 

 

So, yeah, I totally disagree with that assessment so far and really enjoyed the episode. My nerves are shredded to shit, too.

[Connorrrr]

Yeah I mean I'm really enjoying it too, and it's not commiting too many storytelling flops with my choices (nothing that's been jarring or anything). Still thought it was an interesting read.

[Hot Heart]

Yeah, going through it now, it's got some valid points, but I'd say only if you're nitpicking. At times, he's just trying to guess the 'authorial intent' which is always a hard sell.

[CorgiShinobi]

I found most of his points valid. One example I can think of involving Kenny is...

 

 

when you're suppose to get Kenny out of the tent, your dialogue choices wouldn't match what you've been saying before. Not it the obvious "different button" dialogue sense, but your whole conversation would sound bipolar if you strayed from what were the obvious followup dialogue choices of whether you just wanted Kenny out of the tent, you wanted him to help Rebecca, or you wanted him to help you. I first started wanting Kenny out of the tent, but when I said I needed him, Clem went from cautious to almost helpless in her tone of voice within a few seconds. I wasn't help with the resulting conversation so I restarted from the last point and went with "helping Rebecca" for our conversation.

 

 

Season 1 had those moments too, but each time I talked to Kenny in the first half of the latest episode, it felt disjointed to where I didn't think my choices were really effective. Telltale has always had an intended path, but we're suppose to be able to alter how we get there, something I think Season 1 did better than Season 2. With this season, I'm always getting the sense that maybe because we're Clem now, we're facing more "out-of-hand" moments where we can't have as big an impact as Lee did with his decisions.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Atomsk88

[Hot Heart]

So this came to my attention on Twitter.

 

WARNING. SEASON TWO, EPISODE FOUR SPOILERS.

http://lillycaul.tumblr.com/post/94359921967/on-telltale-games-ableist-treatment-of-sarah

 

And the follow-up explanation by Greg Miller

http://uk.ign.com/blogs/greggy-ign/2014/08/10/the-walking-dead-sarah-and-normal/

 

 

I have to admit I never considered that Sarah was neurodivergent. To me, she simply represented what Clementine could've been if kept sheltered. As much as I love the games, they're pretty blunt in their character sacrifice to Clementine character development. Hell, Chuck was only there to go, "Don't coddle her. Teach her to look out for herself" before shuffling off this mortal coil.

 

Then you get a similar character in Jane and the parallels come between her sister and the Clem/Sarah relationship. Nothing about disabled people being baggage, just that some people can't bear to face the world as it is.

 

Maybe I missed something being too hasty to ascribe the obvious story implications?

 

[Mister Jack]

For the record, I despise the word ableist.  It is constantly getting thrown around when it doesn't apply.

[TheMightyEthan]

I thought it was obvious from the first time you meet her that Sarah has some kind of mental disability...

[Hot Heart]

I remember getting that impression, but I wasn't entirely sure. It seemed like a case of 'she could have a mental disability' or 'Carlos was being overprotective and keeping her completely in the dark so that it would appear that way to you'. You're kind of unsure of the characters at that point, and I attributed it to the writers playing with your perceptions.

 

I'd have to replay that episode since it's been a while now.