Destiny

[SomTervo]

I get your point, and it is really about that in terms of gameplay. Solo gameplay sucks pretty big-time.

 

But a big part of Destiny's PR, especially after having done a super story-driven series (Halo) is that it will, like Left 4 Dead, merge co-op gameplay and story gameplay seamlessley. I'd say it's succeeded in structure- the cutscenes are compelling, you go to places for interesting reasons and find interesting things- the problem is that the writing sucks. It lays the framework for giving you Mass Effect style information dump and interesting backstories, but doesn't follow through. Even L4D style environmental storytelling, which is easy as shit, has just been ignored. Instead it walks that walk as if it talks the talk but it doesn't talk the talk.

 

Have you played it? My argument might make more sense if so. I'm kinda saying the gameplay focus and narrative focus are mutually exclusive and that's why the Titanfall comparison is facetious.

Edited September 10, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[Mr. GOH!]

The issue with Destiny is that the MP and SP are no longer siloed; the story was, as I recall, all in the SP mode. Yes, you could play through SP as co-op, but the SP modes were clearly designed for primarily a single player (at least up through Halo 3; never played ODST or 4). When everything is MP, Bungie/Activision do not want the lore or plot to turn off or slow down casual play. And, in my experience, most players don't really care about the lore or plot; just us nerds.

 

It also seems pretty clear Bungie did develop a lot of lore and backstory for Destiny; it's just that they do not present it in a compelling way in-game, at least from what I've seen and read. 

 

Edit: No, kenshi, I have not played it because it is an online-only game and therefore I suspected that it would not be for me for a variety of reasons, including online games' notoriously terrible writing and storytelling. It is also only on consoles, and I haven't turned on my PS3 or 360 in months (years in the case of the 360), because I'd rather game on PC. But I have watched a good number of streams, including Polygon's and Giantbomb's. 

 

Why anyone would expect something like Mass Effect's focus on characters and storytelling from Destiny is beyond me. Mass Effect tells its stories by having the player-surrogate interact with NPCs. Destiny, though, is ultimately a multiplayer game; why would you spend time interacting with NPCs when the whole point is to interact with other players? Why design a game to be online-only and multiplayer only to have large chunks of gameplay be essentially single player? There are certainly ways to achieve a balance, but I suspect the market for such a game would be small, and Bungie/Activision aimed for a very wide audience with Destiny.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Mr. GOH!

[TheMightyEthan]

I just want to add in one thing: I disagree that it sucks for singleplayer.  It's very comparable to Halo: singleplayer is a lot of fun, coop is a million times better.

[Mr. GOH!]

The writing or the gameplay, Ethan? Nobody's accused anything of sucking except the writing, but why would that be different in co-op?

[SomTervo]

The story is all SP and MP. The plot and story runs over both. You can play it singleplayer- but the singleplayer experience is entirely nested within Co-op. PvP multiplayer frankly almost seems like an afterthought in light of how heavy the campaign content is. It's difficult to label it as a traditional multiplayer-only game like CoD or Titanfall. It's certainly far removed from either.

 

I never expected Mass Effect characterisation or story, i only mentioned ME in terms of the Codex. Ie optional methods of giving the player backstory. And plenty of MMOs have side characters / texts with meaningful story stuff right? MMO comparisons are far more pertinent than FPS twitch shooter comparisons.

 

I never expected Destiny to have a great overall story at all- it is a gameplay focused game. But i expected some quality of writing/pacing at least, in light of Halo and the fact that most of it is a story-mission based campaign with really high budget cutscenes that could be straight out of Halo. It seems ridiculous to make a story based campaign where instead of saying what things are and what they do you just babble about 'darkness' and 'light' the whole time. It's like if the creators of Buffy suddenly made Lost. (Awful comparison but i dont have time to think of a better one)

Edited September 10, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[Mr. GOH!]

Got it. Yeah, the codex in ME was pretty great, but it really only filled out the info dumped on you through dialogue. But I see what you're saying.

 

Destiny is not traditional in that it focuses on co-op. But it is primarily a co-op MP game and so Bungie does not want their storytelling to get in the way of gameplay and human interactions. Are the cut scenes skippable?

[SomTervo]

Not sure- will get back to you on that. You're right that it's co-op FPS first and foremost, but there are opportunities every 10 mins for optional background story to be fed to us, which Bungie just leave hanging. Eg getting files from stuff you hack, finding audiologs in chests or things- as i said above, the structure is there but they leave it all empty. The hacking one is an especially bitter pill to swallow as at the end of every stage you end up at ancient human computer terminals where mumbling recordings play human voices after 500 years of silence. WHY CANT I LISTEN OMGGG

 

And the way that all the production is amazing and acts like it centres around a compelling core story which isn't there. I guess i could just be misreading the whole thing. Like, the voice acting on the whole is really good (notwithstanding Dinklage who imho is OK), the style is really good, the cutscene camerawork is really good, it gives a proper 5-10 minutes to cutscenes that feel exciting but actually tell you almost nothing.

 

Again, I'm only just finishing earth. Perhaps my observations are really premature.

 

Edit: i also just remembered that a lot of the Patrol side quests (this is when you free roam in the levels and do side quests) have decent stories fed to you by voices. But it's only ever like 'some big problem is happening, find us some of x resource'. I dont think Bungie understand that a story is only compelling if the player explores some history. The past is always more interesting than the present, and is what gives stories weight.

Edited September 10, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[Mister Jack]

No, the cut scenes are not skippable, which means there's even less excuse for the vague story.

[Mr. GOH!]

Kenshi: I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying that what Bungie has done with storytelling in Destiny is not surprising. Well, aside from unskippable cut scenes. That always surprises me.

[TheMightyEthan]

The writing or the gameplay, Ethan? Nobody's accused anything of sucking except the writing, but why would that be different in co-op?

Kenshi said the solo gameplay sucks.

[Mr. GOH!]

Oh. Gameplay looks pretty Halo-ish to me, which is not a bad thing at all.

[Hot Heart]

I can only guess that the story is somewhat buried at the moment since the game is supposed to have a long lifespan? Can't blow your narrative wad all at once. Isn't the DLC stuff meant to expand further on some elements?

 

That's just the impression I got anyway.

 

If you recall Halo 1 it was 'aliens attack and then you go to this weird thing and then you do what a robot tells you and then later discover that maybe don't do that'. Destiny could be going for that same long build... only in MMO terms of length.

[SomTervo]

That is a nightmarish prospect

 

And yeah GOH I didn't meant to be defensive. Typing responses on my phone while rushing about town, never a good idea.

 

The singleplayer gameplay is okay by yourself, but certainly nothing on Halo. Halo's sandboxes had a few more mechanics in them. Destiny is just very good shooting. With several friends the number of enemies ups a lot and the 'very good shooting' becomes 'totally great shooting'. 

 

Again though, this is just my first-world experience. By Mars/Venus it might be different. Christ I gotta get playing

[TheMightyEthan]

When I quit last night I had just unlocked the first Venus mission (turns out I guessed wrong, Venus is before Mars).  I'm stoked.

[SomTervo]

How was Luna?

 

I logged on at 9.30 last night to do the Strike on Earth... 2 hours later I finished it. I'm not cool with that. Roped me in. Was okay but not amazing fun.

Edited September 11, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[TheMightyEthan]

Venus is better, there's actually started to be some story development.

[Strangelove]

I just finished all the story missions yesterday. The game is blatantly slow story wise to account for the dlc. The ending is left wide open. Everything is basically an introduction to the world and characters. No development whatsoever.

You meet a character near the end who helps you out and the tells you that she'll someday ask you for a favor in return. This never happens

At the end one of the characters mutters "endings are just beginnings." The character flat out tells you that there is a lot left to do.

Story wise the game feels like it left off at the halfway point. Maybe not even that.

 

Thank god playing the game itself is really fucking fun. I'm really glad I lowered my expectations for the story.

[TheMightyEthan]

Join the clan you maniac!

[Mister Jack]

I'm a little unclear about one aspect of the crucible.  I know that in most matches everyone is either buffed or nerfed so that their levels are equal, but does that apply to equipment too?  Does each type of gun have a standardized stat that is the same for everyone?

[TheMightyEthan]

All equipment power is standardized on some way, but I'm not exactly sure what that way is

[CorgiShinobi]

I dunno about how balance they make it, at least when you're first starting out. As soon as I got the first chance to enter The Crucible, I was paired up with Lv 11 - 17 players when I was Lv 5. With their abilities, I could barely kill other players unless I was paired with a teammate. Ironically, I got first kill that match.

 

As far as story, I think Grimoire Cards offer lore, and doing the Planet View offered some insight. Still, I think the whole angle Destiny goes with is that the Darkness arrived with evil forces that more of less remained a mystery to humankind. I mean, especially how wrecked Earth became, I bet whatever earlier Earth civilization learned may have been lost.

 

I think the game is real great and is worth most of the hype. I haven't teamed up with anyone here yet given my schedule, but I've had impromptu co-op with random players. Heck, there was a Timed Event in one of the missions last night where myself, a Lv 5 and Lv 17 player defeated three "Fallen Drilling Squads" (or something) just in time.

 

EDIT: BTW, what did everyone choose for their race and class? I didn't play the Beta so I didn't know you could be an "Exo" and whatever the blue/purple people are called. Given you couldn't customize human faces much, I thought I'd be an Exo, though half the faces reminded me of Michael Bay's Transformers.

 

And I'm a Hunter because sniper rifles, hand cannons, and cloaks!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Atomsk88

[SomTervo]

Im fairly certain all the players' defence/ levels are averaged and weapons are indeed given the same stats. Probably arbitrary values which make them fun to play with

 

Edit : im a warlock swinging about my hand cannon

Edited September 12, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[CorgiShinobi]

After playing a lot more Crucible stuff, I would say that an average is probably met, though I wonder how it goes about the weapons you bring in and so forth. Still, I would say that higher level players having unlocked abilities creates a gap, but not a rather large one given that guns will do most of the killing of your enemies.

 

Anywho, I haven't reached the point yet where I can go into a subclass, but there was this video on r/DestinyTheGame...

 

 

I believe I will be looking into the "Bladedancer" subclass.

[Vecha]

Way behind you guys. Been unable to play a lot at nights lately....personal/marital issues(nothing major). 

Hopefully today I can at least get past level 3. Bahahaha.

[SomTervo]

Hit us up, Vech. Would be great to play. Honestly, I enjoy Destiny by myself, but somehow the game becomes almost a masterpiece when you play it with friends. It's so perfectly tuned to that sort of experience. So much discovery and fun.

 

@Atom: that's a great video. I heard there was

swordfighting/ close combat

stuff in the game, and that immediately made me appreciate it much more.

 

I imagine post-endgame Crucible matches are going to be incredible.

 

I played my first Crucible match last night. It was fucking great.

 

Frankly I prefer Destiny's multiplayer to Halo's. Halo always had an unnecessary breadth of gametypes, which were fun but mostly just bog-standard FPS stuff. Having fewer game types which are deeper and more refined, ala Destiny, makes the multiplayer so much more compelling and tight. You have to get good at Conquest or whatever it's called because it's the only option, so you really refine your strategies and tactics a lot more. I think the three-point capture mechanic is brilliant, too.

 

I just wish there was an option for much larger maps with more vehicles and 5-6 capture points. Maybe DLC.

 

Re DLC I've made a decision to buy no DLC for Destiny for perhaps 2 years. It won't be worth it until it all comes down in price.

Edited September 12, 2014 by kenshi_ryden