What are you currently playing?

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

It does beg the question of why you're making a video game at all if you don't have the resources to implement manual saves.

 

 

Your entitlement is leaking.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Your privilege is leaking.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Implying I'm cisgendered.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Implying I wasn't responding to hokum in kind.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I'm not the one trying to down on developers here when you have no idea what their situation is. If they could have done it and still get the game out in a reasonable time they would have.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I'm fine with the concession that there is hokum on both sides. I'm all about hokum.

 

All I'm saying is that it's perfectly plausible to do such a thing in Unity. And I'm only saying as much after consulting someone who knows how Unity works. I don't typically comment on topics like that without researching it first. It's a benefit of the Internet (and being a huge introvert).

 

And I'll go further to say (in this post) that they shouldn't have released the game if it wasn't ready. That it shouldn't be an issue unless the actual entitled gamers demand it. Going further than that to say that if their situation involves developers who can't implement manual saves then they may want to reevaluate their team. Hence, "It does beg the question of why you're making a video game at all if you don't have the resources to implement manual saves."

[toxicitizen]

That's a lot of assumptions. I really doubt that they were incapable of implementing manual saves. I find it far more likely that they simply chose not to do so. Perhaps because they were already spread thin and it wasn't worth the extra hassle. If the checkpoint system was already in place and they felt it was adequate enough, then yeah, it kinda makes sense that they would prioritize shipping the game instead of adding a feature. 

 

When it comes to kickstarted projects especially, I find this kind of decisive cuts far preferable to the alternative. Would you have preferred they overshoot and delay or run out of money like Double Fine did? Honestly, I don't envy the guys behind these kickstarted projects one bit. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[TheMightyEthan]

I know for the projects I've backed I'd prefer they delayed the project (within reason, obviously not for years and years) and ship something that feels complete rather than ship something with obvious flaws or omissions but "on time".  Now obviously I'd rather they ship an incomplete-ish game than nothing at all, so if the danger is running out of funding and not finishing it at all then yeah, do it.

 

Obviously I have no idea which situation this is.

 

@FDS:  It does not reflect well on you when your response to every criticism of a game design choice is "you're just entitled".  It's essentially an ad hominem.  There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with a dev's design decision.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

@Ethan, see what FLD said.

[toxicitizen]

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with a dev's design decision.

Of course not. More often than not, it's how people disagree that I'll have a problem with. It's really more about their attitude than their opinion. 

[deanb]

I'd be curious on the technical decision that lead to them going "okay we can't implement proper saves now, but can maybe do it down the line". Of which it's hardly a design decision if it's something they'll implement further down the line.

It does seem a pretty weird choice to make, and does come across as quite a big negative for a modern RPG game. It somewhat breaks the flow of the game too because each new area you load up you've got to make a choice if you're going to spend the next 15-20 minutes going through that area to the end, or stop playing there and then. Also with it saving on the level loading, and not on the level being completed their level loading system better be damn stable.

 

I also don't see it being something that would have delayed the game by any noticeable amount of time (it already was slightly delayed). Especially if it's implementing something already built into the engine they're using. The only complexity after adding the button into the main menu would be making it so you can't save mid-combat or something.

[TheMightyEthan]

@Ethan, see what FLD said.

 

Exactly, he explained his point instead of just saying "your entitlement is leaking."  That's my point.

[toxicitizen]

My post was nowhere near as funny as his, though.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

That's a lot of assumptions. I really doubt that they were incapable of implementing manual saves. I find it far more likely that they simply chose not to do so. Perhaps because they were already spread thin and it wasn't worth the extra hassle. If the checkpoint system was already in place and they felt it was adequate enough, then yeah, it kinda makes sense that they would prioritize shipping the game instead of adding a feature. 

 

When it comes to kickstarted projects especially, I find this kind of decisive cuts far preferable to the alternative. Would you have preferred they overshoot and delay or run out of money like Double Fine did? Honestly, I don't envy the guys behind these kickstarted projects one bit. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

It's a wide array of possible reasons. And plausible ones at that! A couple comments, too. I still stand by the view that if manual saves are giving you a problem, you need to reevaluate your team. Which wasn't an assumption but a direct response to your saying, "Didn't they say the checkpoints-only thing was because they lacked the resources to implement proper manual saves?". Yes, you did say not to quote you on it. Suck my quotation! I was just following the course of conversation. Because being "spread thin" or "choosing not to do so" are points I find silly in a post-NES world. Manual saves aren't a feature any more than a working user interface is a feature. Now works with mouse and keyboard!

 

Not delaying the project to add another campaign or something otherwise superfluous? That's cool. Some things, some core aspects of a video game, should always call for a delay. Though if it was a design choice, that's fine. I still think it's an awful design choice.

 

Edit: Re: Entitlement and shaky relationships with dictionaries and the English language: Notice that I said many more positive things about the video game, suggested W&S buy it, and the only thing anyone cared to mention was the criticism which somehow made me entitled. Colon.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Saturnine Tenshi

[toxicitizen]

It's a wide array of possible reasons. And plausible ones at that! A couple comments, too. I still stand by the view that if manual saves are giving you a problem, you need to reevaluate your team. Which wasn't an assumption but a direct response to your saying, "Didn't they say the checkpoints-only thing was because they lacked the resources to implement proper manual saves?". Yes, you did say not to quote you on it. Suck my quotation!

No, I'm pretty confident about that part. The don't-quote-me bit was about them thinking of patching it in later. I remember reading something along those lines but I couldn't find a source to back it up when I searched for it.

 

I was just following the course of conversation. Because being "spread thin" or "choosing not to do so" are points I find silly in a post-NES world. Manual saves aren't a feature any more than a working user interface is a feature. Now works with mouse and keyboard!

 

Not delaying the project to add another campaign or something otherwise superfluous? That's cool. Some things, some core aspects of a video game, should always call for a delay. Though if it was a design choice, that's fine. I still think it's an awful design choice.

Perhaps they thought the checkpoints were good enough? In that case, delaying to add manual saves would be delaying the project to add something they felt was superfluous. Whether or not that was the right call is, of course, arguable. But to bring their entire operation into question as a result of that call seems a tad unreasonable

 

Edit: Re: Entitlement and shaky relationships with dictionaries and the English language: Notice that I said many more positive things about the video game, suggested W&S buy it, and the only thing anyone cared to mention was the criticism which somehow made me entitled. Colon.

For the record, I never called you entitled. And I did get the sense that you were enjoying the game. It's just the "Why are they even making games?!" bit that bugged me.

 

Man, splitting that post into multiple quotes should not have been so much trouble. I think the forum hates me.

[deanb]

I'll be making a post in future with regards to the qoutes thing, but for now it's looking to get fixed but I want more and more solid things to go on before making the "here's what's coming in the next big forum update".

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, I figured it had to have been a bug of some kind. I've done it before and it was fine, but for some reason this time the forum kept auto-adding closing tags at the very end so my entire post kept getting turned into one gigantic quote.

[deanb]

From what I understand it's a case of the WYSIWYG quotes thing was sort of their own hack into the text editor, and it's not quite done so well so there's quirks to how the CSS and javascript interact. They're completely revamping the text editor as a whole next time around (includes properly done spoiler button too), so it'll sort the quotes issue which they'ere aware of.

I'll make a post in Forum Changes as n when there's a bit more to post than about text editor.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Guild Wars 2

Finally spent an hour or two on the Aspect Arena mini-game. It's a part of the latest living world event, Cutthroat Politics. Basically, you choose lightning, air or fire power and use them to play a capture the flag sort of game. There's twisters, black holes, lightning leaps—it really galvanizes the blood!

I'm mostly doing it for the achievements, though. Every event has achievements you can unlock toward a meta achievement that gives you some sort of reward. Plus, there are some nice account rewards at every 500 achievement points.

You can check it out here.

Also that lame-looking coat is just the default PVP skin.

[TheMightyEthan]

Civ V: Brave New World.  I haven't gotten far enough along for the new culture stuff to really kick in, so so far my exposure to the changes has just been making a few trade routes, the new policy options, and encountering a couple new civs (and playing as Poland).

[Saturnine Tenshi]

More Guild Wars 2.

 

Today was my first time running Fractals of the Mists, an end-game dungeon composed of segmented mini-dungeons. Ended up with the Lovecraftian Maw as the final boss, which was exactly what I needed for the event achievement.

 

Screenshot album here.

[madbassman39]

I've actually recently started to play GW2 as well. Although I'm playing mostly on PVE. The population on the server is usually on "high" but I hardly see anyone running about these days. I do every so often, but its a lot more rare.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I mainly do PvE as well. Are you on an NA server? If so, add me and let me know it's you. Merill al Ghuraab.1209 is my account name.

 

Edit:

 

Oh, an update. I was pretty crestfallen because this super-marvy backpack seemed beyond my reach due to the insane drop rates on items required to get it (without spending real world money), but I happened to check the trading post and there it was. Unfortunately, it cost everything I had. Fortunately, it looks so fucking spruce I don't care.

I'll even make thumbnails because shit it's The One Backpack.

Yes, there's a motherfucking Toucan on her back.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Saturnine Tenshi

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

I've started re-playing Ratchet & Clank. I actually didn't know what one I hadn't beat between Up Your Arsenal and the first game and I started up UYA and realized that's the one I have. So I guess I've never played the very first besides the demo and I'll be doing that.

[madbassman39]

I am madbassman.7542 on an NA server! I'll add you!