What are you currently playing?

[toxicitizen]

I won't deny it's me, but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't get enjoyment out of trying and failing the same part of a game more than a couple of times

Really? Serious question: do you play all your games on easy then? I honestly can't understand the thinking behind what you said. Failing is just a part of playing for me. Do you not like challenge in games?

 

especially when doing so means I have to redo significant sections that I'd already passed. (Disclaimer: I have not played Dark Souls or Demon Souls, just going off what I've heard, and what I've heard turns me off actually playing the game.)

I'm not sure why you even bother commenting on the subject, then. By your own admission, you have no idea what you're talking about. What you're describing has almost no basis in reality. Well, to be fair, Demon's Souls was kinda like that. But in Dark, other than a few specific exceptions (i.e. one or two areas with no or very few bonfires), you never have to replay anything remotely close to a "significant portion of a level" upon death.

 

Seriously, they're great games. The difficulty and how "hardcore" they are is blown WAY out of proportion. Get the first one on Steam next time it's 5 bucks and give it a shot. I'm sure you won't regret it.

Edited April 28, 2014 by FLD

[deanb]

As someone who has played both (I own two copies of Demons Souls for a reason I can't remember); the repetitive grind is pretty boring after while (definitely more so the case in Dark Souls). While it may not be a "whole level", it's a decent chunk each death when you have to do it over and over. Which also damages weapons/armour and (potentially) loses any souls accrued. In order to advance end up just kinda grinding (since you only had two of the item recommended to defeat boss with and unlike check pointed games they're gone once used up) to level up and knock out what comes next, which frankly isn't a very challenging method of play. It's the worst part of traditional JRPGs (grinding) without the whole applied tactics part.

 

Also as best I can tell a fair chunk of the story and lore is fanfic/wikis which means there's no hugely compelling story to pull you through either games.

 

Anywho Ethan her'es one of the more frequently referenced gifs for "Dark Souls":

[Strangelove]

Ive been meaning to play the Souls games as well, but the fanbase really kills the interest. Its basically the answer to all gaming related questions according to them.

 

Im also going to kinda sort of side with Ethan on this. I personally hate dying over and over til I "get it." Its not fun and I don't feel "accomplishment" once I get through it. I don't get a rush from it and Im not a competitive guy. It just has no effect on me.

That being said, if the first Dark Souls ever appears on PS+ I give it a fair try. I hope the actual game actually is fun to play, cus that seems to be the last thing anyone ever talks about when it comes to these games.

[toxicitizen]

As someone who has played both (I own two copies of Demons Souls for a reason I can't remember); the repetitive grind is pretty boring after while (definitely more so the case in Dark Souls).

It definitely can feel that way if you're going about it wrong. But really, there's rarely any need for grinding in the traditional sense. Soul levels aren't all that significant (look up onebros if you don't believe me). Upgrading your gear is more important than leveling up. It's not immediately obvious but discovering that is part of the experience.

 

While it may not be a "whole level", it's a decent chunk each death when you have to do it over and over. Which also damages weapons/armour and (potentially) loses any souls accrued. In order to advance end up just kinda grinding (since you only had two of the item recommended to defeat boss with and unlike check pointed games they're gone once used up) to level up and knock out what comes next, which frankly isn't a very challenging method of play. It's the worst part of traditional JRPGs (grinding) without the whole applied tactics part.

I wouldn't even say "decent chunk". The levels really aren't very large. On a first pass they seem big because you're going carefully and progressing slowly, but after a while you can clear the path between any two given bonfires rather quickly. Losing souls, while frustrating at the time, is ultimately meaningless. If you have a large amount and don't wanna risk losing it: spend it.

 

Oh and Dark Souls II actually changes the gear durability system. In short, as long as it's not broken yet, resting at a bonfire will fully repair it. That's one of the few changes I actually really like.

 

Also as best I can tell a fair chunk of the story and lore is fanfic/wikis which means there's no hugely compelling story to pull you through either games.

Well, it certainly isn't all in your face with the story, but it is there. The main arc of the Chosen Undead's quest is rather thin but there is more to the backstory and lore, you just need to look for it in NPC dialogue, item descriptions, etc... It's not really fanfic since there's evidence to support most of the accepted speculation and theories.

 

Anywho Ethan her'es one of the more frequently referenced gifs for "Dark Souls":

 

Lol. I like this one better:

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by FLD

[toxicitizen]

Ive been meaning to play the Souls games as well, but the fanbase really kills the interest. Its basically the answer to all gaming related questions according to them.

 

Im also going to kinda sort of side with Ethan on this. I personally hate dying over and over til I "get it." Its not fun and I don't feel "accomplishment" once I get through it. I don't get a rush from it and Im not a competitive guy. It just has no effect on me.

That being said, if the first Dark Souls ever appears on PS+ I give it a fair try. I hope the actual game actually is fun to play, cus that seems to be the last thing anyone ever talks about when it comes to these games.

I suppose that largely depends on your idea of fun. It's certainly a niche title, it's not for everyone. Going from what you just said, I suspect it probably won't be for you. The thing is, it's not about dying until you get it, it's about being careful and cautious every step of the way. I wouldn't necessarily describe it as "fun" in the general sense. It's not Mario Party "fun" but calling it fun isn't as completely out of place as with something like The Last of Us, either. Rewarding is a better word for it. If you're dying over and over again on the same section, you're simply not learning from your mistakes. In that situation, it can definitely feel like going up against a brick wall.

 

Also, coming out of a gen where we've been getting COD-like shooters out the ass and most games are often regarded as being way too easy, when something like Dark Souls comes along that prioritizes good design and brings back a true old-school kind of challenge but without the bullshit, of course a lot of people will embrace it. That being said, the Souls fanbase does have an unfortunate tendency to be up its own ass, I can't argue with you on that one.

Edited April 28, 2014 by FLD

[TheMightyEthan]

 

I won't deny it's me, but that still doesn't change the fact that I don't get enjoyment out of trying and failing the same part of a game more than a couple of times

Really? Serious question: do you play all your games on easy then? I honestly can't understand the thinking behind what you said. Failing is just a part of playing for me. Do you not like challenge in games?

 

No I don't play most games on easy? I like a challenge, I don't like to have to do the same shit over and over again. IMO if a game has a proper difficulty curve then by the time I get to any given part I should have the skills to be able to get through it after two or three tries max, maybe up to 5 or so for the harder parts. The less I have to redo after dying the more times I'm willing to die before saying fuck it. That's one thing Super Meat Boy did right: you die a lot, but you can go right back to playing almost instantly, and never lose more than a few seconds of progress. I'll also say that the challenge I tend to like it games tends to be more challenge in execution rather than challenge in preparation, so action games, RTS, etc (shooters when they're done well, but in practice I don't actually like many shooters).

 

But anyway, I wasn't trying to say "the game is not good because of these things", because you're right, I don't know anything about it first hand, I was trying to say "I am not interested in playing it because of these things". Obviously when forming an interest about a game I haven't played I have to go off what people say about it.

 

That said, I do actually have an interest in playing it if for no other reason than it's a major thing in gaming, but it's more of a "something I feel I should experience" rather than something I "want" to play. I actually already own it on Steam, and was getting ready to give it a go tonight, just came to check the forum before I booted it up. I had been going to play it a month or two a go, but I spent like an hour trying to get DSFix to work and by the time it was working I'd lost my motivation.

[toxicitizen]

No I don't play most games on easy? I like a challenge, I don't like to have to do the same shit over and over again. IMO if a game has a proper difficulty curve then by the time I get to any given part I should have the skills to be able to get through it after two or three tries max, maybe up to 5 or so for the harder parts. The less I have to redo after dying the more times I'm willing to die before saying fuck it. That's one thing Super Meat Boy did right: you die a lot, but you can go right back to playing almost instantly, and never lose more than a few seconds of progress. I'll also say that the challenge I tend to like it games tends to be more challenge in execution rather than challenge in preparation, so action games, RTS, etc (shooters when they're done well, but in practice I don't actually like many shooters).

So you like a challenge... so long as you can succeed right away? I think we're working on completely different definitions of "challenge" here... I'd argue what you're describing isn't much of a challenge.

 

But anyway, I wasn't trying to say "the game is not good because of these things", because you're right, I don't know anything about it first hand, I was trying to say "I am not interested in playing it because of these things". Obviously when forming an interest about a game I haven't played I have to go off what people say about it.

Oh, that much was clear. Maybe I came off more defensive than intended, sorry. I was just trying to point out where you were mistaken in your perception of the game and provide some perspective.

 

That said, I do actually have an interest in playing it if for no other reason than it's a major thing in gaming, but it's more of a "something I feel I should experience" rather than something I "want" to play. I actually already own it on Steam, and was getting ready to give it a go tonight, just came to check the forum before I booted it up. I had been going to play it a month or two a go, but I spent like an hour trying to get DSFix to work and by the time it was working I'd lost my motivation.

Honestly, I do feel like everyone should at least give it a shot, even if I'm aware it's ultimately not going to be for everyone. Reason is if you do get into it, it's going to be one hell of an experience. Glad you're giving it a try. Don't hesitate to ask if you've got questions or want some advice or whatever.

[Chronixal]

Pretty sure I spent the entirety of last night playing FFXIV:ARR on PS4 and subsequently buggered my sleep pattern up. It's a damn fine game.

[Mr. GOH!]

 

TheMightyEthan, on 28 Apr 2014 - 8:54 PM, said:

That said, I do actually have an interest in playing it if for no other reason than it's a major thing in gaming, but it's more of a "something I feel I should experience" rather than something I "want" to play. I actually already own it on Steam, and was getting ready to give it a go tonight, just came to check the forum before I booted it up. I had been going to play it a month or two a go, but I spent like an hour trying to get DSFix to work and by the time it was working I'd lost my motivation.

 

That's how I felt until I put more than an hour into a Dark Souls playthrough back in January. I tried getting into it for over year, but just didn't feel it until I passed the initial area.

 

Now, I love Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2. I generally do not enjoy games that require tons of repetition, like really difficult platformers, like Meatboy, even. I'm also not a huge action gamer, and I generally suck at action games, and I've found the souls games' difficulty to be more than manageable.

 

The background story of the world in Souls games is told by the environment, a sort of grand scale example of what you find in Fallout 3. The narrative followed by the player character may seems a bit bare, but I think it becomes clear sooner or later that there's a lot more going on than meets the eye. 

 

That said, the satisfaction I get from playing a Souls games comes from three sources, in no particular order:

 

1. Exploration of the game world

2. Customization of the player character to effectively overcome challenges

3. Understanding and overcoming challenges that were very difficult at first, whether it's learning the timing and attack patterns of a tough new enemy, clearing and optional boss after retooling the player character's equipment, or mastering the most efficient way to avoid enemies in an enemy-infested area.

 

The game excels in all three areas, especially the third. In a gaming landscape in which single player games are usually quite easy and the player character's power is unearned by the player outside of the game narrative, it's a strange experience as a player learning how best to use the controls and customization systems to make the player character powerful and effective.

 

That said, the Souls games aren't for everyone, but I think most dedicated gamers should probably try them.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Mr. GOH!

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, just spent an hour playing it.  Was actually enjoying it until I got killed by the minotaur and the last bonfire was farther back than I was willing to repeat.  I'll probably try it again tomorrow, or later in the week, but I think it's unlikely it'll grab me.

 

I did get this out of it though:

 

 

I used to be an adventurer like you, until I took an arrow in the head.

 

@FLD:  I like the challenge to be right at the edge of what I'm capable of.  If I have to try it several times, refining my strategy each time, that's fine, but once it goes beyond a few tries then I feel like the attempt I end up succeeding is just a fluke, it's more that everything just randomly happened to work out on that run rather than anything I actually did.  IMO a well-designed game will keep you right at that edge the whole time (with allowances for pacing, don't want to burn people out or bore them), and if you have to keep redoing the same part over and over then they didn't do their job right in preparing you for the challenge.

 

Basically if they want me to learn a skill to get past a section they should have me practice it ahead of time.  I don't want to get my practice by repeating the same part over and over, that's not fun.  If you think of it in terms of puzzles rather than fights, if I get stuck and go look up the answer, and my reaction is "oh, I'm retarded, I should have figured that out" then it's a well-designed, challenging puzzle, but if my reaction is "that's stupid, how was I supposed to get that?" then it's not.

 

This is all mostly unrelated to Dark Souls, I'm not saying they don't adequately prepare you.  In fact, I thought the first boss fight in the Asylum was a perfect example of me dying and knowing exactly what I had done wrong, and it also didn't send me back very far at all.  The minotaur, on the other hand, I'm not exactly sure what I was supposed to do differently, and I don't want to fight through all those mooks again just to try him again.

[Mister Jack]

I would have a much higher tolerance for the Souls games if you didn't lose your souls every time you die.  Yeah, I know you can get them back by finding your body, but sometimes you get unlucky and it just doesn't happen and then I'm left feeling like the last two hours were a complete waste of time because I haven't accomplished a god damn thing.  In fact, in the worst case scenario I might even end up with LESS progress than I had when I started playing that day.  I could only repeat the same sections so many times before I decided I wasn't having any fun.

[toxicitizen]

@FLD:  I like the challenge to be right at the edge of what I'm capable of.  If I have to try it several times, refining my strategy each time, that's fine, but once it goes beyond a few tries then I feel like the attempt I end up succeeding is just a fluke, it's more that everything just randomly happened to work out on that run rather than anything I actually did.

That's... exactly what the Souls series is like? I mean, like I said, if you keep retrying half a dozen times and still die, it's not the game, it's you. You're doing something wrong. Boss was almost dead but you died when he got a "lucky" hit on you while you were dodging? Nope, your timing was off. It's literally almost 100% execution challenge, which you said is what you enjoy. If your attacks are dealing little to no damage, upgrade your weapon. But otherwise it's all skills.

 

Basically if they want me to learn a skill to get past a section they should have me practice it ahead of time.  I don't want to get my practice by repeating the same part over and over, that's not fun.

Well you don't really have to learn any new skills beyond the first few hours. Once you know how to time your dodge, to keep an eye on your stamina bar and learn overall necessary playing habits (e.g. always save enough stamina to roll away unless you know for a fact you can get the kill, etc..), then you're set for the game. It's mostly about sizing up the boss, reading its pattern and finding that weak spot and the right window to exploit it.

 

The minotaur, on the other hand, I'm not exactly sure what I was supposed to do differently, and I don't want to fight through all those mooks again just to try him again.

Well I don't know what you did but there's a bit of a trick to this one that you can exploit to gain an edge. Maybe you found it but here it is if you want to know.

 

 

As soon as you enter the fog gate, turn back. There's a ladder on the left, climb up and take care of the archers right away. Then go trigger the Minotaur and run back. Climb up and do a drop attack on him, that should take a fair chunk of his health. You can try to do it again or just fight him from there. You can also stay up there and he'll eventually jump up. There's more space to roll around up there.

 

Edited April 29, 2014 by FLD

[MetalCaveman]

Yeah, just spent an hour playing it.  Was actually enjoying it until I got killed by the minotaur and the last bonfire was farther back than I was willing to repeat.  I'll probably try it again tomorrow, or later in the week, but I think it's unlikely it'll grab me.

 

This is all mostly unrelated to Dark Souls, I'm not saying they don't adequately prepare you.  In fact, I thought the first boss fight in the Asylum was a perfect example of me dying and knowing exactly what I had done wrong, and it also didn't send me back very far at all.  The minotaur, on the other hand, I'm not exactly sure what I was supposed to do differently, and I don't want to fight through all those mooks again just to try him again.

 

 

If you get some gold pine resin (available in one of the houses in the undead burg*), the falling attack does a ton of damage, just went through that area, used the method FLD described combined with the lightning effect of the gold pine resin and it took almost half of his health (using a club without any upgrades), after that I just had to use 3 black firebombs (you get 5 in the house below the dudes that are throwing firebombs at you, the path you take from the undead burg bonfire)  to kill him.

 

 

 

You can use the master key, or buy the residence key from the undead merchant, to get to him, go down from the undead burg bonfire to were the 2 shield + spears dudes are kill them then go downstairs, and he will be in a room there, be careful with the axe soldier that hides in a small corner in the room with the stairs.

 

 

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/undead-merchant-male

 

[toxicitizen]

A quick note, though. I wouldn't recommend getting the master key as a starting gift. It's really useful for an experienced player who knows what he's doing but terrible for a beginner. Locked doors are pretty much the only thing guiding you early on and keeping you from entering dangerous areas too soon. Being able to go anywhere will most likely cause you to end up somewhere way too difficult and you'll just end up getting frustrated because you won't realize you shouldn't be there at all yet. That's what happened to me when the game first came out on PS3.

[TheMightyEthan]

That's... exactly what the Souls series is like? I mean, like I said, if you keep retrying half a dozen times and still die, it's not the game, it's you.

But like I said, the more I have to redo after dying the fewer times I'm willing to retry, and at least at that minotaur part it put me farther back than I was willing to redo even once (though part of that was I didn't know what I was supposed to do differently, so I'm not going to go back just to die again with no clear idea of how to improve).

 

*Edit* - And as far as the "lucky hit" thing goes, I didn't mean to imply it was the game being random, I meant it was me being random. When I said at the edge of what I'm capable of, I meant what I'm capable of doing reliably. If it's too far out past that level then it feels like it was just random that I was able to do it right on this particular run. If, after beating it once, I wouldn't have like an 80% of beating it again first try then I feel like it was too hard (not necessarily too hard for the game at all, but too hard for the point where they put it). Again, not saying Dark Souls is like this, just that that's the impression I'd gotten from what I'd heard about it.

Edited April 29, 2014 by TheMightyEthan

[toxicitizen]

But like I said, the more I have to redo after dying the fewer times I'm willing to retry

I guess I just don't get why you need to put an arbitrary limit on your number of retries. If a game is good, then I'm going to want to keep playing regardless. My enjoyment of a game isn't directly dependent on my success at it. Honestly, it kinda sounds like you like the idea of a challenge but dislike actually being challenged.

 

that minotaur part it put me farther back than I was willing to redo even once (though part of that was I didn't know what I was supposed to do differently, so I'm not going to go back just to die again with no clear idea of how to improve).

Really? It's a fairly short section. You really need to change your outlook on the game if you're going to enjoy it at all. It's really not about clearing an area once and being done with it. How are you going to figure out what to do differently unless you actually go back and try again? This game is all about discovery and experimentation. If actually making your way to the Minotaur boss isn't trivial, then you shouldn't be too surprised to fail to beat it.

 

I mean, it's called Prepare To Die Edition, ffs. I did say the difficulty is exaggerated but still, that should be your first clue that this still isn't your average game. If you think you're going to just waltz in there and get it all on your first try, then lol. It's the antithesis of the modern game that constantly holds your hand. None of that "Press X here to awesome" nonsense. The game wants you to fend for yourself. It's not going to give you all the information, it wants you to figure it out on your own.

 

That being said, there is something I can suggest but I'm not sure how viable it would actually be in DS1 considering the smaller player activity. In DS2, a good approach is to make it to a boss gate and put your summon sign down. When other players summon you, there's no downside for you to failing against the boss, you just get sent back right where you were. Allows you to practice the boss with no penalty.

 

*Edit* - And as far as the "lucky hit" thing goes, I didn't mean to imply it was the game being random, I meant it was me being random. When I said at the edge of what I'm capable of, I meant what I'm capable of doing reliably. If it's too far out past that level then it feels like it was just random that I was able to do it right on this particular run. If, after beating it once, I wouldn't have like an 80% of beating it again first try then I feel like it was too hard (not necessarily too hard for the game at all, but too hard for the point where they put it). Again, not saying Dark Souls is like this, just that that's the impression I'd gotten from what I'd heard about it.

See what I just said. This isn't your average game and you should adjust your expectations accordingly or you're going to have a bad time. Don't go into it with your usual mindset towards difficulty, it's a different beast. You only just started playing, of course the first real boss is going to kick your ass. You're still learning how to play the game.

Edited April 29, 2014 by FLD

[TheMightyEthan]

I don't put an arbitrary limit on how many times I'm willing to try something, what I'm saying is that generally speaking if I have to try the same part too many times without feeling like I'm getting any better at it I get frustrated/bored/irritated and quit playing, and the more stuff I have to repeat before the part that's actually stopping me the fewer tries it takes before I reach that point.  But it's not like I'm counting and go "welp, that's 5 tries, guess I'm quitting this game".

 

As far as trying again, I wouldn't have a problem trying the boss again.  First real boss kicks my ass the first time?  Fine, that's not a problem, like you said it's expected.  Kicks my ass even the second, third, or fourth time?  Sure, as long as I feel like I'm getting better at it.  What I don't want to do is fight past all those damn skeletons to get there again each time.  That's tedious.  The skeletons aren't a challenge, they're just pointless obstacles to getting to the boss.  Putting me back from the boss and making me go through them again doesn't make the game more challenging, just duller.  The boss is the real challenge, so what's the point of making me do the other parts multiple times to get to him?  I'm not even saying the boss is a bad kind of challenge, just that putting that much busy work between retries is stupid.

[toxicitizen]

I don't put an arbitrary limit on how many times I'm willing to try something, what I'm saying is that generally speaking if I have to try the same part too many times without feeling like I'm getting any better at it I get frustrated/bored/irritated and quit playing, and the more stuff I have to repeat before the part that's actually stopping me the fewer tries it takes before I reach that point.  But it's not like I'm counting and go "welp, that's 5 tries, guess I'm quitting this game".

Maybe not a hard limit but it definitely sounds like there is one and it's pretty low. Which is fine, I suppose. I mean, it's not like I'm trying to tell you how to play games. Just seems weird to me to have as a general rule to apply to all games across the board. If any game caused me to not want to retry a section beyond a handful of time, it's usually because I just don't like it all that much. Happens most often with games that are in a genre that's outside my comfort zone or one that I'm not normally a huge fan of, like a racing game or an RTS.

 

As far as trying again, I wouldn't have a problem trying the boss again.  First real boss kicks my ass the first time?  Fine, that's not a problem, like you said it's expected.  Kicks my ass even the second, third, or fourth time?  Sure, as long as I feel like I'm getting better at it.  What I don't want to do is fight past all those damn skeletons to get there again each time.  That's tedious.  The skeletons aren't a challenge, they're just pointless obstacles to getting to the boss.  Putting me back from the boss and making me go through them again doesn't make the game more challenging, just duller.  The boss is the real challenge, so what's the point of making me do the other parts multiple times to get to him?  I'm not even saying the boss is a bad kind of challenge, just that putting that much busy work between retries is stupid.

I don't know, I find the combat fun enough that I don't mind plowing through them again. It's certainly more satisfying here than shooting waves of enemies in any given shooter would be. This early, I'd probably even make it to the boss and not even enter the fog gate, maybe do a few more runs at it and spend more souls. Having more HP never hurt anyone. I'm not sure how spending less than 5 mins killing a few enemies is busy work, though. The boss is seriously very close to that bonfire. If they're not much of a challenge like you say then you should be able to clear them very quickly. Or shit, you can just run right past them. That's what I tend to do when I just want to retry a boss without clearing the area again. Often because I have a large number of souls in the boss room that I don't want to lose. Most enemies won't chase you very far.

Edited April 30, 2014 by FLD

[TheMightyEthan]

I'm not saying I have a general rule that I apply to games, I'm just trying to put in words how I respond to them.  Saying I apply it to games implies I'm using it to guide my behavior, when in reality I'm just trying to describe it.  Sometimes I'll enjoy a game enough that I will keep trying the same part over and over and over again until I can get past it, but typically only if I've already been hooked by the game when I get to that part because I feel like I just need to get past the stupid part to get back to the stuff I was enjoying.  Nothing that I've seen so far in Dark Souls has hooked me though, and I'm sitting here looking at the fact that it put me back a stupid distance from the boss, and the idea of fighting through those mooks again seeming very tedious, and foreseeing that this is going to be a recurring thing throughout the rest of the game, and it just kills any motivation I have to try again.

 

Honestly, from what I've seen the only change I would make would be putting a bonfire right before the white fog that leads to the boss.  That way I can try again right away if I want, or go grind souls if I want, but I'm not forced to repeat easy bits to get to the meatier bits.  Because yes, clearing the skeletons again would be easy, and I probably could do it again very quickly, but having to repeat easy things that aren't a challenge multiple times is just tedious and doesn't appeal to me, and I'd rather just play something that doesn't make me do that.

 

This reply really expanded a lot more than I meant it too.  Originally I just wanted to clarify that my number of retries thing isn't a "rule", it's just a description.

[toxicitizen]

I guess something about the way you insisted on it made it sound like a bigger dealbreaker than it actually is? I dunno, that was just one part of my replies, really. I'm more interested in discussing Dark Souls specifically, tbh.

 

And, it's not like I don't entirely get what you're saying about the repetition. I guess it's just a bit hard to really recall exactly how it felt when I was just starting. But, like Mr. GOH said, a lot of people don't get hooked until quite a few hours in. And when that happens, repeating those sections stops being an issue. At this point, all I can really suggest is try to stick with it? If something really annoys you or you get desperately stuck, don't hesitate to look stuff up on the wikis. The way the game wants you to figure things out for yourself is great, but it can also be a double-edged sword at times, making it more frustrating than it needs to be.

 

For the bonfire right before the fog gate thing, I'd argue that goes against the spirit of the game. Some people actually complain that the bonfires are too close together in Dark Souls II. And not all fog gates lead to a boss fight so sometimes it's a bit of a gamble crossing them. As for repeating things that are easy, well, that's not always going to be the case. There will be places where fighting the enemies on your way back to the boss will be much more dangerous. On the other hand, there's also going to be some where there will be so few enemies that it won't even be worth engaging them so you'll just run right past them. Don't assume that this section is necessarily representative of the entire game, the areas are quite varied.

[Strangelove]

I decided to play MGS5:GZ again because I only played it once and Id like to get my money's worth(impossible) out of it, also because they added the Raiden mission for free.

Yeah, those 2 extra exclusive missions we got sucked. Theyre pretty bad. The Raiden mission is just a reskin of Snake and all you have to do is kill everyone with a machine gun. Boring.

The MGS1 mission is even lamer, all you do is take pictures which kinda sorta resemble scenes from MGS1. I didnt even finish that one.

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, my friend was telling me about Deja Vu the other night. It sounded completely retarded. Maybe they half-assed it intentionally as a way to criticize console-exclusive DLC? Yeah, I don't really believe it either...

[Strangelove]

Well, the game in itself can be said to be "rushed." Konami needed them to put something out there since theyve been working on MGS5 for a long time, so I kind of knew they werent really going to put any kind of real substantial exclusive missions when the entire game itself was pushed out unfinished.

Replaying the game again kind  of bummed me out a bit. Im still excited to play PP, but I think Im really done with the story. It hasnt moved forward in so long, were still stuck with Big Boss. I really miss Solid Snake and I really miss the present/future of the series. Ive had my fill of the old stuff. I really hope this is the last BB game.

 

And while I like Keifer Sutherland in this(for the most part), he's inadvertently fucking up the script too. To stay within budget, they had to reduce Snake's dialogue so they wouldnt have to pay Sutherland as much, that's why Miller talks so damn much in GZ and Im assuming PP will be the same.

[Mister Jack]

I tried Battlefield 4 again after EA rolled out those new servers and lo and behold, the game actually works now.  In fact, when it works it's pretty fun as long as you play one of the modes that has vehicles in it and not the small squad modes which are garbage and that I only played for the trophy.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

Did we play the same game? It's worked since November for me and IIRC I have somewhere around 100 hours played.