Waldorf and Statler Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I know linking to kotaku is frowned upon in here, but the topic is what is at hand here. http://kotaku.com/5941602/yeah-so-about-that-easy-mode-for-dark-souls- Basically the lead of the Dark Souls team wanted to add an easy mode for those gamers who haven't been able to experience it. The vocal minority of players online complained the whole game would be ruined, he backed off from the backlash. What's your opinion on games adding or having difficulty settings? Personally I think these players are elitist pigs. Why would it bother you if they add an easy mode. They can argue all they want how it defeats the purpose, but I argue back how does it bother YOU if you don't touch it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchikoma Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) I can see the argument that if an experience is altered - say 10 guys run out and mob you, but on easy it's a "mob" of 3 - that it's not the same experience, and as a director that could be troubling if you were going for a certain kind of scene. But if players are stonewalled and unable to effectively engage the game, then they simply don't get to have most of the experience in the first place. So I guess for a given game, it comes down to which is more important - the purity of the game, at the cost of a narrower appeal, or the ability to be experienced by more people, sometimes at the cost of some of the game's creative impact or the designer's ideal vision of it. Edited September 9, 2012 by fuchikoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) EDIT: This post has been edited so that it doesn't sound angry... I think it's kind of an elitist attitude. I think the reason it bothers them, is because suddenly other people are going to be able to beat the game that they think they tried so hard to beat and that they are actually a special bunch for having beaten the game. Though I also think that everybody feels this way about something and sometimes it just couldn't be avoided, because I know I've felt the same. As long as the original difficulty is called "Normal" then it should be of no concern. If someone else beats the game, you can go ahead and call them a pussy for not having to beat the game on "Normal" difficulty! Maybe because Dark Souls doesn't have anything going for it other than it's difficulty. Maybe it doesn't even have a decent story so there's really no point in going the easy mode and finishing the game. I haven't played it, but if it did have a good story, then I'm all for easy mode so people could experience it. The topic, though, is general difficulty. And to answer that: Yes! Difficulty Levels affect my enjoyment. Uncharted 3 was a perfect example for me. Since I beat Uncharted 2 on 2nd highest difficulty, and since I got near the end of the game on the highest (didn't finish it that time, lost interest) I thought I'll start Uncharted 3 on the most difficult setting (which I think is 2nd to highest since the highest is locked iirc). No problem, right? Basically the same game as the old one, I can beat that no problem. Yeah I could probably finish it, but you don't know how many times I died. Trying to run for cover, evading enemies who spawn behind you. The screen keeps turning to black and white while rolling to the next cover available. It was so frustrating. I couldn't enjoy the story at all since in between scenes I get killed a lot of times. So I switched it back to normal and oh it was really fun this time. Still died, but not as much, so I didn't get frustrated with the game and enjoyed the story a lot. The key thing to do is whatever the developer's "vision" of how the game should be played should be set as "Normal" difficulty. You could have Normal as the highest with Easy and Very Easy as choices, that's fine. Or Normal as the middle one, and as an additional challenge at Hard and Insane difficulty levels for those who get a rush of beating games at the highest difficulty settings. Edited September 9, 2012 by eleven 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 When I was younger (I would say 15 years ago), I would probably say that it bugged me because I wanted to feel like a unique snowflake for being able to beat Contra 3 on hard mode in order to get the real ending or the bragging rights of beating something on hard mode. Nowadays, as long as it doesn't lead to watering down the experience of the game for everyone (say, removing the inventory of an action-RPG because it is 'too much for the average guy to handle', that kind of thing), it shouldn't really matter if someone wanted to play on Super Easy. As long as you're playing it, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted September 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Dammit I wanted an angry Dark Souls fan to say something. I've been arguing with people in Kotaku and some of them make valid arguments for their side, to which I completely disagree as they are missing the point, but others. Oh the others Why don't all other things in life have an easy mode then? there should be a staircase going to the summit of Mount Everest, professors should have an easy mode course for getting a bachelor's degree. Man Vs Food shoulda been able to take the skin off the ghost pepper chilli drumsticks. but these cheapen the accomplishments of the tasks. Instead of being amazed when someone says they've been to the top of mount everest, you have to ask did you do it the normal way or easy mode with staircase? Also I'd like to argue Dark Souls has more going for it besides its difficulty. The level design and armor/weapon/souls system is fantastic. The online component is dickish but fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) Its because these elitists think that they are 'special' for playing and beating Dark/Demon's Souls, they somehow think that being able to handle such an experience makes them better than everyone else. Seriously. There's more to the Souls games then their difficulty, there's the fantastic art design and environments, the sound, the combat, the atmosphere. Now there is an arguement to be made that the difficultly ties into everything else in the game, like the general theme of being undead and all that, but a simple difficultly option wouldn't hurt at all. And its not like its something that would require a drastic reworking of the game or make the actual regular difficultly easier. Maybe halve damage or something similar in easy mode. Just a mode that affords people to make a few more mistakes. Jesus some of the arguements against an easy mode hurt my brain. Dark Souls is fun because of the crushing difficulty when easy modes are added to the game it becomes the default difficulty for most players who will then complain that the game is short and easy. Demon Souls and Dark Souls have a niche audience and risk alienating the core players who believe that finishing the game is a reward in itself. Let God of War and clones pander to the button mashers and let Dark Souls continue to be a high water mark for game balancing based around character development, exploration and skill. it becomes the DEFAULT difficultly? You name it easy and normal mode...normal. And notice the criticizing other games as being 'lesser' experiences. No doubt people bring up Call of Duty too because that has difficultly options, ooohhh what a convincing arguement! Edited September 9, 2012 by excel_excel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted September 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 Even Ninja Gaiden, the notoriously difficult game from back in the days in the xbox, had a Ninja Dog that was demeaning to the player thanks to the pink scarf you had to wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excel_excel Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 demeaned the player? It made you look FABULOUS! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Wasn't Ayane also kind of a bitch to you instead of respectful if you played on Ninja Dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 Having an easy option makes no difference. Sometimes I like to play on Easy because I have a backlog and want to play through the story quickly. It's also more fun to play on easy when you have friends round. You can take turns on chapters in Uncharted or whatever and no-one really needs to hand back the controller because there is a hard bit. I tend to think of Easy mode as "Content Tourist Mode" you may like games, you may even be "hardcore", but you just want to cruise through the game and see everything there is to see. I always play Uncharted on Very Easy or Easy when looking for treasure because I don't have to worry about starting a level over again and re-collecting stuff or whatever. Either way, as everyone else has pointed out. Easy mode only affects you if you use it. Otherwise it is not a problem. Especially for a game like Demon / Dark Souls where the difficulty comes from the combat. You can do loads, increase Soul Drops, increase loot drop rates, increase player damage, decrease enemy damage etc. None of which make the blindest bit of difference to the way the game is built. Besides which, Demon's Souls isn't that hard. It's just a little unforgiving. With enough preparation it's perfectly possible to complete. It's not like one death ends the game and wipes your save. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnine Tenshi Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I might have finished Demon's Souls if it had an easy mode. I usually play on the medium, normal or whatever similar difficulty is available in games. I only save hard for first-person shooters. But Demon's Souls was too much for me. I've been told I was playing the wrong class (theif). I hope I don't need to explain what's wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 What would an easy mode even be like in those games? Having more health and the enemies less health only goes so far. I think entire moves would have to be removed from enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 I tend to think of Easy mode as "Content Tourist Mode" you may like games, you may even be "hardcore", but you just want to cruise through the game and see everything there is to see. This. I don't always play games for the moment-to-moment gameplay but for the story or atmosphere, and other times I enjoy the act of playing the game but don't necessarily want it to be all that difficult, and for those times easy mode is wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnine Tenshi Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 What would an easy mode even be like in those games? Having more health and the enemies less health only goes so far. I think entire moves would have to be removed from enemies. Yeah, I don't know about Demon's Souls. I don't fault it for being painfully challenging, but I don't have to enjoy it either. I reached the point in the caves where there was this lumbering crow-man swinging his beastly club at me. I had nowhere to run or roll which, as a thief, meant I had nothing to do save changing my class. It's not like I could kite him or anything. Similarly, it's why I didn't finish Super Meat Boy. On the other hand, I love me some Dungeons of Dredmor with permadeath enabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 The way I look at it is fairly simple when it comes to difficulty. Do I enjoy the gameplay mechanics? If Yes, then I need it to be as difficult as possible because I enjoy the challenge - it's why I like civ on harder difficulties. If No--> Do I like the story and other aspects? If Yes, alright I'll play on harder difficulties so that I feel I've got value for money as it's likely to be a short game. Else , then okay screw this I'll just play it on normal since I'm just curious about it and it's not really giving me a lot of enjoyment( why on earth did I buy this game?). That's all there is to it for me. I do like difficulty in games but it all depends on what the game does for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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