Which third party franchise will be next?

[FMW]

The other day I read an interesting article over at Forbes about how Nintendo has been trying to slowly get their third party support back one franchise at a time. The first big shocker was how they snagged Dragon Quest. I don't believe there's been a single Dragon Quest game or spinoff released on non-Nintendo hardware since... Dragon Quest VIII on the PS2. DQ Monster, Fortune Street, the DQ remakes, DQ 9 and 10, DQ Rocket Slime... who knows what sort of deal they had to cut to achieve this, but Dragon Quest fans have only one place to go these days, and that's to Nintendo hardware.

 

The next big deal was Monster Hunter. That upstart little franchise became Capcom's biggest brand practically overnight and single handedly bolstered the PSP (in Japan at least) and made an entire new genre to boot. Again, we don't really know what sort of deal has been struck between Nintendo and Capcom, but look at where Monster Hunter is headed for the next year. A 3DS remake, a Wii U HD remake, and the 3DS exclusive Monster Hunter 4. No further Monster Hunter Portable games (the mega successful PSP titles) have been announced.

 

And most recently, Nintendo took another and entirely more risky gamble. While Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter are juggernauts, Fatal Frame is anything but. But Nintendo bit anyway. They now partially own the IP and for the forseeable future that franchise is going to be Nintendo exclusive. Just like with Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest, there's been a mix of remakes and original franchise installments on Nintendo hardware in recent years.

So here's our pattern: Nintendo will try to secure exclusivity for the biggest brands in Japan. Nintendo will aim for IP that diversify their portfolio (none of those franchises really have equivalents within Nintendo's first party brands). Nintendo will try to secure both new games and remakes of past installments on their hardware.

 

Finally, the question. If you had to guess, which IP will be next?

 

My guess? Tales. It has a history of appearing on Nintendo hardware, it's popular in Japan, the Tales Studio has run into some financial issues of late (meaning that maybe they would be more open to a Nintendo partnership that came with development funds), and Nintendo seems to be on very close terms with Namco right now considering that Smash Bros 4 is being developed there. If I had to guess, I would say that we'll see Tales begin to migrate more and more to Nintendo hardware over the next few years. The remake of Tales of the Abyss on 3DS already fits the pattern to a T.

What are your thoughts? If you were a Nintendo executive, which IP would you target next?

Edited September 23, 2012 by Frosted Mini-Wheats

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I don't know about Tales. It's a fairly prolific series on the PS3/360/PSP still.

 

They've also acquired Monolith Soft, so you can add that developer to the list of acquisitions. Having developed/co-developed Xenogears, Baten Kaitos and Baten Kaitos Origins is by itself a huge representation of Monolith Soft's worth. I hear they developed Xenosaga, too. But I didn't like Xenosaga. >.>

 

I'm not really sure if Bayonetta counts; nevertheless, I think the uproar is downright silly. Downright silly.

 

I'm still not quite keen on giving Nintendo any money. They've an uphill battle ahead of them, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one. But it's good that they're making something of an effort in this respect at the very least.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Saturnine Tenshi

[excel_excel]

Monolith Soft also made Xenoblade. So they are GODS.

Also Nintendo's marketing for Monster Hunter in the West is great. Its easily the best selling Monster Hunter title in the West. Nintendo's marketing has never been better.

I'd like to see them go after more smaller franchises and put there weight behind them. Something from Atlus, or Nippon Ichi.

Edited September 23, 2012 by excel_excel

[TCP]

I'd love to see them open up the bank full of money they got from Wii and DS sales, and have them throw a bunch of money at Bethesda and make Fallout 4 a Wii U exclusive. Not that I want to play that on the Wii U but I love fan boys getting their panties in a knot like that.

 

But honestly, they've locked up lots of Japanese IPs, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta, Dragon Quest, time for them to look west, I think.

[TheMightyEthan]

I doubt they'll look West, at least too strongly. Japanese companies can't seem to wrap their minds around the idea that anything outside of Japan matters at all.

 

As for all these IPs: It's obvious Nintendo really is trying to win back the core with the WiiU, but I see one major problem with that: hardware. The WiiU might be attractive to the core for its first year, but then the 720 and PS4 are going to release and be ten times as powerful and it's going to steal Nintendo's thunder with the core. I'm glad that they're trying, but I don't think they're going about it in the best way.

[Strangelove]

Well a lot of people are thinking because of economic reasons, The PS4 and the next Xbox wont be ten times more powerful than the WiiU. They dont want to release an expensive machine like they both did last time because a lot of people are unwilling to spend that kind of money right now. I dont think either machine will be priced above $400.

I hope people are wrong though. I do want a console way more powerful than what we've had for the past 6 years. And I dont want a pc either.

 

Another thing people are saying is that some publishers arent going to want to spend money on the resources needed to make a PS4/Xbox720 game. Making games has gotten expensive, that's why so many Japanese games were released on portables and the Wii this past generation- to save money on not making an HD game. People assume western game companies to be the next to do the same. I personally doubt it.

 

That being said, Nintendo doesnt sell at a loss, but Sony does. And maybe MS too. So maybe we can get a better more powerful console for almost the same money. Lets hope.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Strangelove

[TheMightyEthan]

MS definitely sells at a loss (or does early in the cycle, I think they're making a profit on each 360 now). The expense of creating the games is definitely a concern, but engine advancements are lessening the impact of that as well. UE4, for example, has a lot of optimizations that streamline development and allow you to accomplish more with fewer people.

[TCP]

As for all these IPs: It's obvious Nintendo really is trying to win back the core with the WiiU, but I see one major problem with that: hardware. The WiiU might be attractive to the core for its first year, but then the 720 and PS4 are going to release and be ten times as powerful and it's going to steal Nintendo's thunder with the core. I'm glad that they're trying, but I don't think they're going about it in the best way.

Yes, however, most powerful system does not always equal most popular with the serious gamers. PS2 was a hardcore gaming machine (and popular with casual gamers) and it wasn't as powerful as the Game Cube or the XBox. The PS1 wasn't as capable at producing 3D graphics and it was more successful than the N64.

I think what really did the Wii in was the lack of HD. The advent of HD screens made everything non-HD essentially obsolete. So now, even when there are some Wii games I want play, like Last Story and Xenoblade, they don't get played because they look fucking awful. (Also lack of an online system, achievement system, and 3rd party support also hurt the Wii). This time, there won't be a major technological shift like HD gaming. I'm not saying the Wii U will be the serious gamers choice over the PS4 (I personally have invested far too much time in my PS3/Vita trophies/friends list/game collection/etc to go to anything other than Sony unless someone gives me a REALLY good reason), but I think we could see a repeat of something like the GCN era. Maybe. Or maybe not. Who knows.

[Thursday Next]

Ninty don't seem to get third party.A third party publisher doesn't really want to do exclusive games. The whole point of being third party is that you have the whole marketplace to operate in. Paring that down by up to 2/3 is just not good business sense, especially taking into account the fact that third party software sales on Nintendo hardware tend to be rubbish. Not only that but they are waaaaaaay too cagey with their tech it's not unheard of for third parties to learn about features after the hardware is on the market. I've yet to meet someone who really "gets" what Nintendo are doing with Online. I'm not sure even Nintendo do, so they lose a lot of support.

 

I can see this console being another Gamecube.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Ninty don't seem to get third party.A third party publisher doesn't really want to do exclusive games.

 

That sounds a lot like Microsoft. More Microsoft' date=' actually.

 

I've yet to meet someone who really "gets" what Nintendo are doing with Online. I'm not sure even Nintendo do, [. . .]

 

Christ, Thursday. I certainly don't get it. Friend codes, tenuous multi-player, shop channel purchases being tied to one console? I'm not sure if they've any plans to fix these things on the WiiU, but I sure as hell hope so.

 

Though to be honest, I wouldn't mind another Gamecube. Gamecube was a solid system.

[TheMightyEthan]

Ninty don't seem to get third party.A third party publisher doesn't really want to do exclusive games.

 

That sounds a lot like Microsoft. More Microsoft' date=' actually.[/quote']

 

MS likes to pay third party developers to be exclusive, sure, but the 360 is close enough in terms of power to the PS3 that there's not anything stopping a developer from releasing a game on both systems and there's no reason to think it will be any different with the 720/PS4. With Nintendo, OTOH, their console is so different from the others that you either have to spend a ridiculous amount of resources to dumb down games from the other consoles or you have to release your game only on Nintendo's hardware. MS encourages exclusives, but Nintendo's hardware almost forces them.

[Strangelove]

If things repeat themselves this generation, I wonder if publishers are going to even bother with making "lesser" and "original with innovative features" versions of their AAA games on the Wii U like Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop, RE Chronicles, Dead Space Extraction, and Call of Duty 4 Reflex or whatever did on the Wii. they all reviewed worse than the games they were made from and they sold poorly too. I wouldnt bother. And I say this as a person who enjoyed Dead Space Extraction quite a bit.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Strangelove

[Saturnine Tenshi]

You make some points about the hardware part; although it seems to me Microsoft are the bigger dicks when it comes to exclusivity.

 

As far as hardware being a problem, I'm honestly not in a position to discuss it. Don't have the proper knowledge and all. I know there's generally an issue of developing down for the Wii, but why does that work the other way around? Going from Wii to PS3/360, I mean. I understand that there's the issue of people bemoaning a game not looking "HD" enough when most PS3/360 games aren't even native 1080-anything, but is there a technical impasse there? That's not a rhetorical question, sarcasm or anything of the like.

 

I know Tales of Graces ƒ went from Wii to PS3 without too much trouble, but again, I don't know how the hardware works. I can't think of any other multi-platform games that went from Wii to PS3/360 and not the other way around. But again, I don't what's preventing going from inferior to superior hardware in the same way that games are ported from 360/PS3 to PC.

[excel_excel]

If things repeat themselves this generation, I wonder if publishers are going to even bother with making "lesser" and "original with innovative features" versions of their AAA games on the Wii U like Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop, RE Chronicles and Call of Duty 4 Reflex or whatever did on the Wii. they all reviewed worse than the games they were made from and they sold poorly too.

Actually Call of Duty Reflex sold very well on Wii Resident Evil Umbrella and Dark side Chronicles weren't even trying to be like the regular Resident Evil experience, and for some were definitely more fun that Resi 5 at the very least.

[Strangelove]

I never quite understood that myself. Was CoD4 such a powerfully awesome game that the Wii couldnt run the exact same version, just crappier looking? Dead Rising was impossible on the Wii because of the number of zombies onscreen. That makes sense. It changes the game almost entirely, but whats so power consuming about CoD, Dead Space or RE5?

[Strangelove]

If things repeat themselves this generation, I wonder if publishers are going to even bother with making "lesser" and "original with innovative features" versions of their AAA games on the Wii U like Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop, RE Chronicles and Call of Duty 4 Reflex or whatever did on the Wii. they all reviewed worse than the games they were made from and they sold poorly too.

Actually Call of Duty Reflex sold very well on Wii Resident Evil Umbrella and Dark side Chronicles weren't even trying to be like the regular Resident Evil experience, and for some were definitely more fun that Resi 5 at the very least.

My point isnt that they sucked, its that they wasted money and time making completely different games. Just port CoD4 and RE5 to the Wii and be done with it. It makes sense and people would buy it anyways.

[excel_excel]

If things repeat themselves this generation, I wonder if publishers are going to even bother with making "lesser" and "original with innovative features" versions of their AAA games on the Wii U like Dead Rising: Chop Til You Drop, RE Chronicles and Call of Duty 4 Reflex or whatever did on the Wii. they all reviewed worse than the games they were made from and they sold poorly too.

Actually Call of Duty Reflex sold very well on Wii Resident Evil Umbrella and Dark side Chronicles weren't even trying to be like the regular Resident Evil experience, and for some were definitely more fun that Resi 5 at the very least.

My point isnt that they sucked, its that they wasted money and time making completely different games. Just port CoD4 and RE5 to the Wii and be done with it. It makes sense and people would buy it anyways.

That's exactly what COD Reflex was. A port of COD to the Wii. And the games sold well, the Resident Evil Chronicles games so they made money and even did a sequel. If you've got a PS3 and Wii, its perfect. I'm not going to buy Wii Resi 5, but an original Resident Evil spin off? That works.

Edited September 24, 2012 by excel_excel

[TheMightyEthan]

As far as hardware being a problem, I'm honestly not in a position to discuss it. Don't have the proper knowledge and all. I know there's generally an issue of developing down for the Wii, but why does that work the other way around? Going from Wii to PS3/360, I mean. I understand that there's the issue of people bemoaning a game not looking "HD" enough when most PS3/360 games aren't even native 1080-anything, but is there a technical impasse there? That's not a rhetorical question, sarcasm or anything of the like.

 

AFAIK there's no technical reason why things can't be ported from Wii to PS360. The problem is that beyond graphics the Wii can't support things like larger levels, more complex AI, more enemies, etc etc that PS360 can, so even if you were to port the games they don't measure up to other third party games on those platforms.

 

There's also the issue of the Wii's wacky controls making games not translate as well, although Move has alleviated that to some extent.

 

*Edit* - But even with Move there's the issue that not all PS3 owners have it, so your audience there is limited.

Edited September 24, 2012 by TheMightyEthan

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I suppose that makes sense, Ethan. Especially the motion bit. I still don't think Nintendo is doing anything any more underhanded than anyone else out there, but yeah, I can see why it might present a problem to devs targeting core gamers who might not want the WiiU.

 

I wonder how that's worked out for companies that have developed core-type games for the Wii only.

[Strangelove]

Lets be honest, most Wii games were gimmicky. At most they made games more "fun", at worst they made them...worse. No game on the Wii would suffer incredibly from proper controller use. All the good stuff: Twilight Princess, SMG1, 2, NMH1, NHM2, and whatnot would play just fine and sometimes even better with a regular controller. Wii ports are easy. Nothing substantial is ever being lost.

Sadly, a lot of games that used waggle show signs of how mediocre their gameplay was without it. Again, NMH comes to mind. While people will say it's shiitier without waggle, it just shows that the gameplay was shitty to begin with. Waggle just hid it. Its the very definition of a gimmick.

 

The WiiU will be a very different monster. The second screen will be what makes or breaks it. Wii U games being ported will only be a problem if game companies find something actually good to do with it. Otherwise, I dont care that the 2nd player doesnt have his own screen. Zombie U so far is the only game Ive seen that could be unportable.

And if it was, it would be terribly bad. Nintendo needs to enforce the making of games like Zombie U.

 

Sadly, Zombie U itself seem dull as all hell. The WiiU needs something like it, but a million times better.

 

 

Then again, fuck this. Ghost Trick and TWEWY are both on iOS and theyre still pretty good even without a second display. I dont have a point anymore.

[TCP]

Lets be honest, most Wii games were gimmicky. At most they made games more "fun", at worst they made them...worse. No game on the Wii would suffer incredibly from proper controller use. All the good stuff: Twilight Princess, SMG1, 2, NMH1, NHM2, and whatnot would play just fine and sometimes even better with a regular controller. Wii ports are easy. Nothing substantial is ever being lost.

 

I know you hate motion controls, but Skyward Sword, which in my opinion is up there with Wind Waker as some of the great Zelda games (but maybe not to ALTTP or OoT standards), would not be playable with a standard controller, and that Wii Motion Plus is what helps make the game so great. Gimmicky is not a world I would use to describe it.

Edited September 24, 2012 by TheCowboyPoet

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

^That's one positive example compared to an insanely large amount of shovelware.

[TheMightyEthan]

I suppose that makes sense, Ethan. Especially the motion bit. I still don't think Nintendo is doing anything any more underhanded than anyone else out there, but yeah, I can see why it might present a problem to devs targeting core gamers who might not want the WiiU.

 

I wonder how that's worked out for companies that have developed core-type games for the Wii only.

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say they're doing anything underhanded, just that I don't anticipate it working out very well.

[TCP]

^That's one positive example compared to an insanely large amount of shovelware.

 

Thanks tips. Here's Strangelove's post "No game on the Wii would suffer incredibly from proper controller use. All the good stuff: Twilight Princess, SMG1, 2, NMH1, NHM2, and whatnot would play just fine and sometimes even better with a regular controller." He was speaking definitively. I thought you of all people, as someone who takes every chance to point out the exception to everything anyone says, would appreciate it!

[Strangelove]

I havent played SS, but if its anything like TP, I dont want to. Maybe TP was bad, maybe Im just not a Zelda fan. Possibly both. But TP was not fun. Even if it got better swinging sword controls, its not something I want to do for 60 hours or however long Zelda games are. I like the Wiimote and Move as a pointing device. Stuff like RE4, DS Extraction, Sin & Punishment 2 were the best Wii games because of shooting and not swinging.