VicariousShaner Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 It just seems pretty silly to me that the agreed upon way of making a good female character is to just write a character as a man, then switch it out. What's even the point after you do that? I mean, blank slates are hardly good characters in the first place. They are literally just a model that moves. One could hardly even call it a "character". Also, "strong" pretty much equates to "being a man", right? That seems pretty unusual to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Because, sometimes, people want to see women (or minorities) as the protagonist/hero; nothing more to it. It's a good starting point anyways, as a decent writer will always find something else to build in (e.g. Ripley in Aliens takes on a 'motherly' role). It's just rarely seen in videogames. Edited November 28, 2012 by Hot Heart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Yeah. I don't want people to insert minorities for the sake of saying they have a minority in the game. In fact I would rather they didn't. But to come in with the intention of making the character a minority, I'm all for that. Look at the Walking Dead. It's the complete opposite of the master aryan race media the show is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecha Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 It just seems pretty silly to me that the agreed upon way of making a good female character is to just write a character as a man, then switch it out. What's even the point after you do that? I mean, blank slates are hardly good characters in the first place. They are literally just a model that moves. One could hardly even call it a "character". Also, "strong" pretty much equates to "being a man", right? That seems pretty unusual to me. I think the reason behind that is that most, not all, have the idea that women are weak. To get past this...think of them as a man and just swap the gender. Not saying women ARE weak...but society likes to say/think they are. By getting past your own bias(that you may or may not even realize you have)...write it as a man and swap it. I personally think a woman can be/act just as tough as a man in situations. So yes...the idea that "man" equals strong is beyond silly. But society still does, and probably will for a while, have deep seeded biases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Problem is people think that for a women to be tough she instantly HAS to be a badass. I think many women characters are badass just for having to be put in situations I couldn't. Like the Sopranos. Not to say I mind a Ripley or a Brienne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Ripley is strong in Alien (and most of Aliens) without being a 'badass'. Conversely, you could look at 'strong', badass men and find a lot of them are emotionally void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Well I saw her being pretty badass during the "Get away from her you bitch" scene. But I'm not trying to say badass is a bad thing I was simply saying that not all women characters need to be action heroes. We can have strong women characters in plenty of non-action roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 22, 2012 Report Share Posted December 22, 2012 Yeah, that's why I'm saying she's still strong without being a badass in Alien (and Alien Cubed *shudder*) and for most of Aliens (even then, she's using some kind of utility vehicle not a military one, firing guns). There are 'strong' females in other roles but, in mainstream films, they tend to be manipulators and, therefore, femme fatales/evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Also Kim Swift wrote some stuff: http://www.inthebasecase.com/?p=17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I gotta applaud Kotaku because man, they must be raking in the cash with all the angry clicks Brida's articles get. On the other hand, I gotta wonder how the lady sleeps at night knowing that she's probably not really helping the case of equality in most cases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) On the other hand, I gotta wonder how the lady sleeps at night knowing that she's probably not really helping the case of equality inmost cases. How so? I don't really see that from the articles I've read. Mind you I'm not exactly searching down all of her articles on the issue but I know I've read a few here and there. Edited February 22, 2013 by Faiblesse Des Sens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 The problem is that for the most part, her articles are generally written in a way that deliberately (to me, anyway) comes off as 'I'm here to make a big deal out of nothing or pick a fight with the opposite gender'. I imagine most rational people agree that there is definitely gender disparity in the gaming industry, but when you're doing articles like NO WOMEN AT THE PS4 PRESENTATION, THE INDUSTRY IS SEXIST, you're doing a major disservice to your cause. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRevanchist Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Also Kim Swift wrote some stuff: http://www.inthebasecase.com/?p=17 This article is great. I think she makes stellar points in a clear, positive and is really wanting to be a role model. This is the kind of person that can create change. @FDS: Contrast this to Hernandez's articles which offer little to creating change and are more like the old person calling all teenagers stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 The problem is that for the most part, her articles are generally written in a way that deliberately (to me, anyway) comes off as 'I'm here to make a big deal out of nothing or pick a fight with the opposite gender'. I imagine most rational people agree that there is definitely gender disparity in the gaming industry, but when you're doing articles like NO WOMEN AT THE PS4 PRESENTATION, THE INDUSTRY IS SEXIST, you're doing a major disservice to your cause. The only way to fix a problem is to identify it first. It's understandable that you and others wish she would provide solutions beyond that. How do you fix such a problem though? That's quite the issue to discuss. I feel like in gaming journalism period rarely are solutions offered. Industries are hard to change. That's why their recent article about minorties in games stand out because they talk about fixing the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheMightyEthan Posted February 23, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 To me though a lot of her stuff comes across like "We need to fix hunger in America. Look! This guy couldn't afford to get a large pizza, and had to settle for medium!" Yes, there is a problem to be addressed, but you seize anything that's even tangentially related as a reason to harp on it then you cause people to get burnt out on hearing about it and they care even less. Also, by making a big deal out of some of the lesser manifestations you skew people's views on the subject. "If the biggest problem women have in the gaming industry is that the Sony execs are all men, then it must not be all that bad." 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 It all comes back to picking your fights. Not exactly a concern when it comes to Kotaku and sensationalism though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I'm all for equality but as a minority I didn't give a fuck that there weren't enough hispanics or blacks in the presentation because I was there to watch games not make sure we were equally represented. If these guys were the best option for the presentation and represented names we could recognize why should they bring a random presenter just to keep it PC? It worked for Ubisoft because w/e her name was WAS one of, if not THE, lead producers/designers of the game and for all we know she had the best communication ability. Picking your fights I also support. I feel that the reason they need to even choose these situations for battles nowadays is because they can't find many subjects where it's clearly black and white discrimination/sexism. When you sit down and ask many (note I didn't say all) women what working in the industry is like they'll say that the men they work with treat them and respect them even possibly more than their male coworkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshi Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 The problem is that for the most part, her articles are generally written in a way that deliberately (to me, anyway) comes off as 'I'm here to make a big deal out of nothing or pick a fight with the opposite gender'. Admittedly, she does write a few things to piss off a lot of people. She has told us such before so I look at comments and she basically achieved what she wanted in most cases. Personally, since I picked up the bioinformatics minor and started taking a few programming classes I can say there's really few females in the class and engineering department so of course that leads to fewer females in the PS4 department that can realistically and adequately present the infortmation. I mean I only counted around 4 girls out of 100+ classes of people. Sure, there's bound to be a few, but if Sony decides that they're not the best speaker for the job what can you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 As others have said. Inequality is an issue. Not just in videogames though, in all companies female execs are a rarity. A lot of the issues do stem from, as Toshi alludes to, earlier than at the "which of our execs gets to present the PS4" stage. Fewer girls in maths, science and engineering degrees means fewer applicants for those jobs within the industry, which means fewer employees within the industry, which means bugger all at exec level. I very much doubt that Sony singled out their girl execs and said "You can't go on stage." More likely they don't have any qualified girl execs, because their aren't as many girl engineers. People like Filamena on Twitter wind me up. They constantly stamp their feet and scream and shout "HIRE MORE WOMEN", but when you have 20 guys and one girl apply for a role, and a number of the guys are better qualified, well, I for one am not about to discriminate based on gender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 First Tropes vs Women is up. I've yet to watch it, though I've heard it's somewhat dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 like her vagina 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercurial Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 She called Double Dragon regressive crap. Her argument is now invalid and she can eat shit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 It's certainly not progressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I find it hilarious that she removed the like bar and comments all together. I know she thinks it is because all men are apes and whenever they hear the word "Feminism" they turn into assholes, but really it's not as simple as other feminazis would like to make you believe. Many of us men are fine with supporting your cause and will fight for you to be represented equally and more responsibly. Heck I can't look at many japanese anime/games without being disgusted by half naked women with large breasts. What we DON'T like is people saying "this is what's wrong with everything you like, and this is why conventions established as innocent little things need to die and be replaced with women instead". I don't take that shit from hispanics when they say we should be represented more, I don't need to take it from a group that has been pushing my buttons quite a lot recently. You like to use fancy words to show you're articulate? Well schucks honeypie as an ignorant man I can't help but like puuuurty words. I know there are feminists with realistic and chemically balanced views. I'll help those out. edit: after watching more of the video I'm not as angry. Some of her points are admittedly true. I still can't get behind blaming developers like Nintendo for not breaking the mold of what they've been doing since the 80's but w/e Edited March 8, 2013 by Waldorf And Statler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Heat Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I can kind of see the logic behind blaming developers, even though the situation is typically not of their choosing (at least in the case of anyone who is forced to answer to shareholders, focus testing and what have you). But even then, I imagine if the protagonist role were split 50/50, there'd still be bitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.