Women In Video Games

[Little Pirate]

I was a little wary of posting in this thread, but I just want to put a bit of input for it. I might not be the right person to have input on this because I'm not exactly a 'feminist'.  To me, in the end -- it's just a game. I grew up playing video games since I was six.  I particularly enjoyed fighting games, and I always picked the girls.  I didn't care how scantly clad they were dressed, I was just happy to have a girl to pick from. When Pokemon finally included a female protagonist to choose from I was screaming at my parents that I needed the game BADLY.  As I got older I did start to see a pattern in the giant boob jiggling, the sexy voices, and the lack of armor, but honestly I was never really bothered by it.  There were always other games that had female characters I adored to make up for any cutout damsels in distress or a super sexy bikini babe if I got tired of seeing it.

There have been instances where I've come across another female player complaining about how over sexualized armor is in a game.  They've made points about how unrealistic the female body is, or how anyone in real life would die right away from wearing armor that only just barely covered the naughty bits. And how this just adds on to the whole social trend of women needing to be these barbie dolls for men to pay any attention to them. I've been compelled to ask them why it bothers them so much.  I haven't been able to get a straight answer other than the fact they think it's sexist.  I think part of it is just female insecurities--the whole fact that we're built to try and live up to a standard of beauty, body shape, boob sizes, flat bellies and so on.  And to some girls, well, maybe having to deal with super sexy women while you're playing a game is just a further reminder of that.  I can see that point of view.  I've seen some characters and I've thought 'Holy crap I could never wear that string bikini with a cape like that'. Do I think it's worth making a big deal out of?  No, not really.  This has always been an element in video games.  It's also a very common element in media too.  It's just the way our society is.  If I were to REALLY worry about sexism I would focus on things like Ambercrombie and Fitch saying they won't go past size 10 for women because fat chicks aren't cool enough to shop at their store. THAT is more along the lines of sexism to me than some boobs in a video game.  There's so much variety in female characters in games now, and a lot of them don't even need to show a lot of skin to be an enjoyable character.  I'm happy with that, and I am still seeing more improvement on it as new games are being released.  There's always gonna be that bubbly ditz in the short skirt or the mysterious femme fatale in a skinsuit.  Some gamers enjoy that.  I don't think they should get rid of it completely just to suit the needs of the sexism issues, it kills the enjoyment for whatever gamers are into that.

Besides.  If I'm gonna have to stare at a virtual ass all day, I want that ass to be hot.

Edited June 7, 2013 by LittlePirate

[Waldorf and Statler]

^ this is the type of woman I can be friends with.

 

inb4 FDS twists my words in a sarcastic remark such as "Oh are you trying to say there's a type of woman you can't be friends with because they have a different opinion!"

[Saturnine Tenshi]

About that, LP: I actually just left TERA. The armor is generally uninspired and recycled on that class—it's a shame. There are some generally amazing armor designs. That isn't meant to excuse what is obviously poor armor design, but there are some on the opposite spectrum.

 

Also, about that race: it's just what seems to be a very lusty race.

 

No armor:

High-level armor:

 

I refuse to believe that's an issue of male power fantasy for anyone who isn't homosexual.

 

Human female high-level armor, on the other hand:

 

That isn't to say the game isn't sexualized or to really argue anything you've said (and that isn't to say it's something I have a problem with if it is). Just providing more perspective since I've invested some time in the game.

 

On the flip side, I also like for armor to look like armor. Now that I've been playing Guild Wars 2 for a week or so, I've come to appreciate that. Sure, it only looks like armor in the scope of a fantasy setting at times, but I'm okay with that.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Saturnine Tenshi

[Luftwaffles]

I feel like this belongs in this thread, since it's related news, but CCP (EVE developers) recently hired Mintchip, a rather polarizing (and female) member of the community. She's a bit of a character;  run a Youtube channel (that previously bashed EVE and CCP pretty vocally), had a few naked pictures circulate, and has in general badmouthed the game she just got hired to promote. The community has well, lost their shit. 

 

I don't really feel like synthesizing all of it, but there's a few reddit threads and CCP forum threads that are rather... enlightening. 

 

 

For what it's worth, my opinion is that CCP made a bit of a blunder. They've been vocal about trying to get more females to play Eve, but I can't help feeling like they tried to get that by hiring the type of female representative that will really just alienate both male and female members of the community. Should be interesting to see how it all develops and the eventual fallout.

 

[Dee]

What bothers me the most about overly sexualizing women in video games is NOT that it happens.  What bothers me is that it is the majority of female characters out there.  I don't believe I've seen a whole lot of sexist tropes out there, and I am not going to claim there is an abundance of them, so this rant is not that the over sexualizing of female characters is sexist.  It's not.  But when a good number of female characters are being portrayed as sexual creatures, and that is the very FIRST thing and probably the only think you recall about them, it creates a problem for me.  I feel like there needs to be more developers who look into mixing things up, even with their male characters.  It is just boring.  It's typical.  It's expected.  It sells, sure, but there's little happening in the way of experimentation aside from the few indies that might get the recognition they deserve.  Problem is, a good number of the games that do get most of the attention are getting the ones that have your very predictable, overly sexualized characters in them.

 

Just give me someone to look up to, someone I can possibly relate to and not because she flaunts her sexuality because she was designed to be that way.  I'm tired of it.  It doesn't make me want to play the game more, and that's sad because there are a lot of girl gamers who would like to see a broad on a hoodie and jeans with her hair in a messy bun and glasses, who is the main character, who is good for something other than her tits half hanging out of the thin piece of material her shirt is made of.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Dee

[Little Pirate]

Slowly but surely, I think some game developers are getting the idea.

Edited June 7, 2013 by LittlePirate

[Dee]

Haha, see?  Yes, that's nice.  I like it, but there needs to be more of it.  And give them a great personality with fine skills to go along with it.  That's not hard, right?

Edited June 7, 2013 by Dee

[Waldorf and Statler]

As long as I get cheesy romances I don't care what they do with my female characters, I am very accepting. As long as they aren't fat.

 

NO FAT CHIX

Edited June 7, 2013 by Waldorf And Statler

[Mister Jack]

You know who I never see mentioned in these discussions about female characters, be it here or anywhere else?

 

 

Is it because she's a child?  Granted, it's rather hard to "look up" to a child character, but that's not the only criteria, right?  Is it because you spend most of the game protecting her?  I'd think that's more because she's a kid than a girl.  Still, she IS a female character, and she's one of the best ones I've seen in a game.  Without going into spoilers, I can just say that she's smart, funny, resourceful, INCREDIBLY lovable, and even capable of defending herself from time to time.  Granted, she isn't the main playable character, but she is arguably the deuteragonist, and I feel like Telltale deserves at least some credit for her portrayal.

[Dee]

You know who I never see mentioned in these discussions about female characters, be it here or anywhere else?

 

 

Is it because she's a child?  Granted, it's rather hard to "look up" to a child character, but that's not the only criteria, right?  Is it because you spend most of the game protecting her?  I'd think that's more because she's a kid than a girl.  Still, she IS a female character, and she's one of the best ones I've seen in a game.  Without going into spoilers, I can just say that she's smart, funny, resourceful, INCREDIBLY lovable, and even capable of defending herself from time to time.  Granted, she isn't the main playable character, but she is arguably the deuteragonist, and I feel like Telltale deserves at least some credit for her portrayal.

One of the younger girls I'm looking forward to playing with is Ellie from The Last of Us.  She seems like a smart ass and I fucking love that.  They haven't over sexualized her, she's resourceful, she defends herself and helps Joel (like the time she threw the brick at that guy in the building as a distraction).  I know I haven't played the game yet, and I haven't experienced her character in full, but I feel like from what I've seen, she's going to be a very fun character that I can find myself liking a lot.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Dee

[Saturnine Tenshi]

 

 

even with their male characters

 

I might be more sympathetic if I read more of this.

[Waldorf and Statler]

Actually Saturnine I think we've mentioned Clem plenty of times here and in other places. She's definitely a favorite around the internet as far as female characters go.

 

DO IT FOR CLEM

[Mister Jack]

I usually see Clem mentioned more as a favorite child character than as a favorite female character.  When the discussion turns to female portrayals, I never see her come up.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

@W&S: That wasn't me.

[Waldorf and Statler]

What the fuck. I'm going crazy.

[CorgiShinobi]

I usually see Clem mentioned more as a favorite child character than as a favorite female character.  When the discussion turns to female portrayals, I never see her come up.

Lately I've seen people mentioning Clem as a "female" character rather than a child one because this year we've been seeing strong female characters. It usually comes down to a "No one can beat Clem" debate, or really more of a statement than any motive ot start a discussion.

[Waldorf and Statler]

It's a statement because those that have played the game and don't agree Lee is secondary to Clem, are dead to me.

[Mister Jack]

Maybe I'm just reading the wrong discussions, then. 

[TheMightyEthan]

What bothers me the most about overly sexualizing women in video games is NOT that it happens.  What bothers me is that it is the majority of female characters out there.

This. Having an overly sexualized character from time to time is not a problem, but when it's the majority of them it contributes to this overall societal attitude that the only thing women are good for is decoration.  That attitude is a problem.

Edited June 7, 2013 by TheMightyEthan

[Waldorf and Statler]

Well until teenage boys and otaku [not mutually exclusive] stop being a major target audience, I'm afraid this will continue. Try and tell a horny individual "the reason we didn't make her slutty is because we're fighting against sexism" and they'll probably turn around and buy your competitor's game [Dead or Alive Beach Party]. Not to say the ONLY thing guys think about is sex when in those groups as I just came out from it, but shit I've been complaining about the same stuff in anime for some years now but it still is a thing that is happening so obviously there's a market for it.

 

Hence why a big portion of M-rated games are aimed at teens.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Waldorf And Statler

[TheMightyEthan]

"There's a market for it" is just an explanation though, not a defense.  The idea though is that if we discuss it enough maybe enough people will come around to the point of view that maybe women shouldn't be treated as nothing more than eye candy that the developers will realize they're alienating more customers than they're gaining.

 

To be extra super trite: Be the change you want to see in the world.

[Waldorf and Statler]

I'd still argue there is a bigger market out there for people who don't care/openly enjoy sexualized women that those that do not. And businesses will see money primarily and everything else as secondary. Lowest common denominator. To me this will all boil down to people against sexism being too divided on the degree which they want to fight it. It's like me with white-washed hollywood films.

 

There are varying degrees and some of the groups can't stand each other. I can't stand the over-all message Jezebel seems to be displaying or the Feminazi defenses I've seen from people around the web. Even people who seem to be way into it, a bit which I've seen in this forum before, who go around calling everybody and their mums sexist can get on my nerves. Unless those groups unite under one banner we won't see much progress. And even if we do we'd have to concede to an action or message everybody wants to happen which would boil down to the bare minimum.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Waldorf And Statler

[Eleven]

This reminds me, I need to play Lollipop Chainsaw.

 

Now, what system was that skin-tight body suit with the open zipper in front? I remember it was a console exclusive...

[TheMightyEthan]

I'd still argue there is a bigger market out there for people who don't care/openly enjoy sexualized women that those that do not. And businesses will see money primarily and everything else as secondary. Lowest common denominator.

I agree wholeheartedly with that, which is why part of the point of the discussion is to change the minds of consumers so that it will start to have an impact on the bottom line and the companies will change their practices.

 

Though I also completely understand that going about it in the wrong way can actually alienate people from your cause and do more harm than good.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

There's also the issue that a woman wearing sexy clothing isn't just the sexy clothing. So while yes, there is an abundance of it, simply wearing a sexy outfit shouldn't be reprehensible on its own if the character is a good character. We aren't Puritans, I hope.