madbassman39 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I saw that... Is it correct in saying that in order to play your Windows/mac games you need a windows/mac computer to stream games to the Steam OS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 The "in-home streaming" bit might mean you can stream from a real PC to a cheap-o Steam Box connected to the TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yeah. So you'll buy or build a SteamOS PC, plug that under your TV, stick in a 360 pad or DS4 then go and buy/build a Window PC to actually play the games on and set that up in the study/whatever. At which point you might was well just buy/build your Windows PC and plug that in and run Big Picture mode, or use one of the many other streaming solutions already in existence. And you don't have to faf with Linux at that point either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) What other "in-home" streaming solutions are in existence? Not defending Steam here, but if I could stream games from my beast PC to my laptop (either by itself or hooked up to our bedroom TV) over my home network, I'd be a happy camper when my girlfriend wants to watch her DVRed shows. Edited September 23, 2013 by Mr. GOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Wait, so I'm confused. Can the SteamOS actually run games itself or is the thing useless if you don't have a gaming PC? I just want to enjoy PC gaming without the Windows aspect EDIT: Ah Kotaku had it written up better than IGN. I really hope Skyrim is one of those games being built for SteamOS. I'd seriously to try that game on PC. Edited September 23, 2013 by The Cowboy Poet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 VNC, it's old as hell and platform agnostic. Also RDP as well for a more MS based solution. Or, which I use for my phone and I think Ethan has used as well, there's Splashtop (and many other proprietary systems which Steam now joins). edit: @TCP: It's linux based, it'll run most (if not all) of the 183 Linux games currently on Steam. If you want to run the other 2157 you'll need a Windows based computer hooked up to whatever PC you've installed SteamOS on. Given we don't know what Distro it runs underneath (I'd assume and hope it's *buntu based) we don't know what else it'll run. Hopefully Valve decide to get a bit more technical in the coming days, cos for announcing a new OS/Distro they've actually said fuck all for what they need to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbassman39 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I would sit here and Poo poo it, but for some reason I just feel like this is only the beginning. If this thing gets traction, we could very well be running SteamOS for all future games. It won't be an immediate move but we may see a shift. I'm only interested because Microsoft wants to shift its gaming community to the Xbox, and I want to be a PC gamer for a bit of a while longer. If Valve is so hell bent on transitioning people over to Steam OS, which it sounds like they just want to have another market to play games on that isn't windows, than maybe they should allow people to dual boot Steam OS and Windows... But maybe thats more work than I'm aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Assuming that Valve haven't cocked anything up dual booting should be entirely possible with GRUB just the same as any other Linux distro can dual-boot (It's not the simplest process and even I generally avoid it, but it's doable). I believe due to in-built "security" features Windows 8 devices doesn't like to play nice with alternate OSes but I believe Linux guys are working around that at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Assuming that Valve haven't cocked anything up dual booting should be entirely possible with GRUB just the same as any other Linux distro can dual-boot (It's not the simplest process and even I generally avoid it, but it's doable). I believe due to in-built "security" features Windows 8 devices doesn't like to play nice with alternate OSes but I believe Linux guys are working around that at the moment. This is only an issue if you didn't put together the system yourself. At that point you just need to disable the feature: www.howtogeek.com/116569/htg-explains-how-windows-8s-secure-boot-feature-works-what-it-means-for-linux/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 What other "in-home" streaming solutions are in existence? Not defending Steam here, but if I could stream games from my beast PC to my laptop (either by itself or hooked up to our bedroom TV) over my home network, I'd be a happy camper when my girlfriend wants to watch her DVRed shows. And you were making fun of me for thinking remote play was a nice feature. VNC, it's old as hell and platform agnostic. Also RDP as well for a more MS based solution. Or, which I use for my phone and I think Ethan has used as well, there's Splashtop (and many other proprietary systems which Steam now joins). None of those are really fast enough for anything but slow strategy games, there's too much latency for anything that requires fast responses. Splashtop has been quite nice for streaming XCOM, Civ V, Reus, Godus, etc to my laptop though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 VNC, it's old as hell and platform agnostic. Also RDP as well for a more MS based solution. Or, which I use for my phone and I think Ethan has used as well, there's Splashtop (and many other proprietary systems which Steam now joins).None of those are really fast enough for anything but slow strategy games, there's too much latency for anything that requires fast responses. Splashtop has been quite nice for streaming XCOM, Civ V, Reus, Godus, etc to my laptop though. Well yeah, hence it being a bit of a joke that it requires having a Windows PC to play 90% of the games on Steam. Only 183 games are going to run natively, everything else you better hope you're fine with Europa Universalis and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 VNC, it's old as hell and platform agnostic. Also RDP as well for a more MS based solution. Or, which I use for my phone and I think Ethan has used as well, there's Splashtop (and many other proprietary systems which Steam now joins).None of those are really fast enough for anything but slow strategy games, there's too much latency for anything that requires fast responses. Splashtop has been quite nice for streaming XCOM, Civ V, Reus, Godus, etc to my laptop though. Well yeah, hence it being a bit of a joke that it requires having a Windows PC to play 90% of the games on Steam. Only 183 games are going to run natively, everything else you better hope you're fine with Europa Universalis and such. So what you're think they're doing this even though the latency is terrible? I'm guessing you've never heard of the Nvidia Shield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 The Nvidia shield still has the same latency issues any other streaming system has. If your current PC and network struggles to steam acceptable at the moment, streaming to a SteamOS PC won't magically make it any smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 It's not the network and PC that struggles (my home network is 100 Mb/s with <1 ms latency), it's the software side of it. Totally a solvable problem. If the PS3 can do it then a PC can do it too. From what I've heard Shield doesn't have the latency problem, and I know from experience the PS3/Vita streaming doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 One half of your software is going to be Linux, and the other half of your software is still going to be Windows. The Nvidia shield also requires you have a GTX650 or higher. I would hope a card barely 12 months old can run your games somewhat lag free over a 802.11N dual-band router. edit: And outputs on a 720p screen. Knowing you I'd guess your home TV is 1080p? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 The Nvidia shield still has the same latency issues any other streaming system has. No, it doesn't. Try using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 One half of your software is going to be Linux, and the other half of your software is still going to be Windows. The Nvidia shield also requires you have a GTX650 or higher. I would hope a card barely 12 months old can run your games somewhat lag free over a 802.11N dual-band router. edit: And outputs on a 720p screen. Knowing you I'd guess your home TV is 1080p? Okay, but what I'm saying is the latency is introduced in the software that converts the screen output to a network signal and back. There is plenty of bandwidth available, and if you can run a game locally with no lag you can obviously generate the pixels you need. It's just a software problem and is solvable. I'm not saying image quality will necessarily be just like having your desktop plugged directly into the TV, but there's definitely room for improvement without requiring better hardware. Current streaming solutions are mostly designed with productivity use in mind, which is much less latency dependent. Again, if my PS3 can do it then my PC definitely has the horsepower to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 @FDS: Nvidia have somehow surpassed the laws of physics and created a totally lag free device? Or is it just running smoothly due to it going from a barely year old GPU to a 720p screen? @Ethan: Spalshtop is built with media and games in mind for the personal version. Personal #1 mobile remote desktop app Access Mac or PC desktops from mobile Best performance, even video + games Top-rated on App Store and Google Play Also if companies that specialise in streaming solutions haven't got great software, then how is Valve meant to solve this software issue? Sony and Nvidia both have the bonus of being able to get at the hardware side of things too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 @FDS: Nvidia have somehow surpassed the laws of physics and created a totally lag free device? Or is it just running smoothly due to it going from a barely year old GPU to a 720p screen? Define lag free. 0ms? No, I'm sure it has some sort of actual lag but in 30 minutes of Metro: Last Light I didn't notice it. Other people have had similar experiences. Of course you'll invent some other reason to say that this is wrong despite this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 @FDS: Nvidia have somehow surpassed the laws of physics and created a totally lag free device? Or is it just running smoothly due to it going from a barely year old GPU to a 720p screen? Come on, you know he meant no perceptible lag. @Ethan: Spalshtop is built with media and games in mind for the personal version. Personal #1 mobile remote desktop app Access Mac or PC desktops from mobile Best performance, even video + games Top-rated on App Store and Google Play It's marketed as being capable of it, that doesn't mean it's designed with it in mind. Also if companies that specialise in streaming solutions haven't got great software, then how is Valve meant to solve this software issue? Sony and Nvidia both have the bonus of being able to get at the hardware side of things too. I'd hazard a guess that Valve probably has a lot more money to throw at the problem than Splashtop or the VNC guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCP Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I hereby declare: if SteamOS catches on, I will get into PC gaming!! But only if most major games and high profile indie titles (looking at you, Cube World) make it to the platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I hereby declare: if SteamOS catches on, I will get into PC gaming!! But only if most major games and high profile indie titles (looking at you, Cube World) make it to the platform. I'm sure you'll have fun with console gaming for the foreseeable future. @TME/FDS: And when games built for next gen consoles hit what'll eventually be two year old GPUs the streaming will remain "perceptibly" lag-free? Also having the money to throw at a problem doesn't make it any less of a problem. Companies far richer and far better staffed than Valve still have plenty of problems. And Valve isn't exactly well known for thier great software either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Whether or not a given GPU can run a given game is an entirely separate issue from whether it's feasible to stream games quickly across a home network. There's no reason that if a PC can play Game X at Settings Y and Resolution Z that it shouldn't be able to send that video output signal to a dumb terminal on the other side of the house at settings at or close to Y and Z with little perceptible latency. It's just a matter of developing the software to actually do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 When FDS is pushing Nvidia Shield as a solution, a hardware based solution, as an example of streaming with next to no lag, then the GPU in question used is an issue because Nvidia shield requires a GTX650 or better GPU to run. And there's plenty of reasons why you cannot have a lag free experience of sending a streaming video game output across the network, certainly not one that simply hinges on "software". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faiblesse Des Sens Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 What is the specific part of the hardware that makes a Nvidia GPU Shield compatible? It could just be bullshit in an effort to get people to upgrade. I hereby declare: if SteamOS catches on, I will get into PC gaming!! But only if most major games and high profile indie titles (looking at you, Cube World) make it to the platform. As someone who isn't a PC gamer what is appealing about this to you so far? Basically at this point it is: 1) An OS you install on a HTPC to play some games natively and stream the rest from your current gaming PC 2) An OS you install onto a gaming worthy PC and give up anything released for Windows with the incentive that AAA support is coming. 3) An OS you dual-boot alongside Windows. To put things into perspective there's under 200 native-Linux games on Steam with AAAs apparently coming next year. But obviously you won't see many (if any) devs porting their old games over unless this gets huge. That would also not apply to DirectX-powered games. Honestly, unless they get some sort of crazy built-in WINE solution I don't think this is enough to appeal widely just yet. It's a start but once you actually sit down and imagine how you would use it you see that it's limited (or really expensive.) I definitely see this appealing to the crowd who have a computer in one room and don't want to run a 50 foot HDMI cord into another. I'm not in that crowd currently but I would have considered it in my previous apartment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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