SomTervo Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Back at E3, Splinter Cell Blacklist sure looked awful. It looked even further removed from the high-tech stealth espionage of the earlier Splinter Cell games than Conviction, which was a good game, if not very stealthy. It was basically 24: The Game. Blacklist showed Sam Fisher, now somehow younger and more generic, shooting ass and taking names. The level displayed looked relatively linear. The areas looked small. There was a bit where he called in an orbital strike to destroy a bloody anti-air site. Compared to Chaos Theory's comparable scene, the difference was stark; in Blacklist, we see Sam highlight the anti-air vehicle, request the strike, then sit back as everything exploded and everyone died. In Chaos Theory, one had to creep into the bunker beneath the missile holding, into a claustrophobic command room, evade two commanders in this space, hack a computer to make the missile's chassis open up, then creep back upstairs- getting more and more visible in the dawn sunlight creeping up from the horizon, and deactivate the missile's targeting system- all in the 4-5 minutes before the missile would fire off. Blacklist had none of that subtlety. It all looked so weak. Enter this video. IDK how many of you have seen it, but it sure paints a different picture to what we saw at E3 (as the annoying voice over guy says). A video I haven't linked here showed a playthrough of the anti-air missile level, where Sam didn't actually get spotted and didn't kill anyone. It showed that air-striking the anti-air vehicle was optional. He could stealth it. The video below elaborates further- skip to about 30-40 seconds in, and the guy will start telling us things. - You get points at the end of a level - you get points for action stuff, exploding guys, shooting guys - you get points for 'predator' behaviour; killing/ marking and executing people, without being spotted - most importantly, for every patrol evaded, you get points towards a 'ghost' score. The game will now reward you for not being spotted, getting through whole levels without being seen or killing anyone. Just like Chaos Theory. The level design also looks pretty goddamn open a lot of the time. Check it out. I'm getting more and more sold, as much as I hate the mass-appeal aethetic of the game: EDIT: It's actually around 1:10 or so that he gets to the stealthy stuff. Also hiding bodies is back! Yaaay! I still find it hard to believe they removed that from Conviction. The London bit also looks wonderfully, wonderfully like Chaos Theory. With the rain and poly bump mapping and darkness and evading guys on rooftops. Mmmmmm. Edited March 20, 2013 by kenshi_ryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Yeah, everything gameplay-related they've been showing the past few weeks has been looking very good. Like a perfect mix of Conviction-style and old-school Splinter Cell. I'm still pissed about the voice, though. Every new trailer that comes out, I get all excited because it looks great. Then Sam opens his mouth and it's like a completely different character. Sam was never a faceless soldier, they always made it a point to give him a personality and make him the core of the series' narrative. Ironside's voice was a very large part of Sam's identity and by changing it they've basically gutted the character. I'm sure it'll be a fun game and I intend to play it when it comes out. But it's hard to get really excited when it feels like they've killed the most important story element the series had. edit: Ugh, even watching that video it's almost unbearable for me. Sam's supposed to be this old-school veteran badass. It's mind-boggingly retarded that they went with someone that sounds so damn young. Edited March 20, 2013 by FLD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffles Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Alright, I was ready to call this shit after seeing the E3 gameplay garbage, but this looks okay after all. Color me excited. I thought Conviction was great, but kinda thought I was playing it "wrong" sometimes while trying to be 100% stealthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah, the problem with Conviction was that you could play it by being 100% stealthy, but when you gave in to the fast-paced 'kill everyone' mentality, it actually shone. The story mode was incredible for this- doing well taking bad guys out felt brilliant. The problem was that the game was tiny. If it had been twice the length, it would have been a far better game. mind-boggingly retarded It is pretty stupid. Initially I wasn't wholly bothered: it looked like they were taking the game such a different direction that a different voiceover was pretty much fair enough. But the more I see the more it looks like it is indeed gonna be more old school Splinter Cell'ey, in which case... Why the hell a new voice? It's basically a new character. Even if they kept the name of the series, kept everything but rebooted it with a new protagonist- that would be fine. The Bourne Legacy did it, and did it remarkably well. It keeps the universe consistent and doesn't break all the immersion with fans. If Ironside's Sam Fisher was a background character who you encountered at some point, well that would be swell. If the new guy got his own quirks and character development, that'd be refreshing for the series, too. Heck, this is a great idea! Frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 And oh, oh, oh Spy vs. Mercenary is returning? OH OH OH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah, I feel like Sam is central to the series, but if they wanted to make him the head of the new Echelon then they might as well have created a new protagonist. It still would've bothered me but it wouldn't be as bad. As for the reason behind the change, what I've heard is it was about having the same actor do mo-cap and voice work. Supposedly it can feel disjointed when it's done by different guys. Whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Yeah, replacing Sam's voice kills it for me. My reaction is just "WRONG! WRONG WRONG WRONG!" every time the new one speaks. Also it was dumb that they made him look younger. Totally agree that they should have made Sam the new head of Third Echelon (the "Fourth Echelon" thing is stupid too, but I can get over that), and had the actual PC be a new character, one of the guys Sam trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 ^ I would have liked that idea a whole lot more but this one at least looks like it went back a bit to its roots so I'll at least give it a rent. I've bought every single one before this one but I've learned my lesson so no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted March 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Idk, man. I felt like i'd learnt my lesson too. Double Agent was such a flawed game, and while I enjoyed Conviction, it wasn't what I wanted from the series, so I was resolved to not buy Blacklist. But Blacklist's gameplay looks better than DA and Conviction put together. I think this'll be the first one since Chaos Theory that'll actually be worth buying. DA and Conviction were definitely just rents. We've still got many a month to wait anyway, so let's see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Which Double Agent did you play? The Xbox/PS2/Gamecube/Wii version was pretty bad, but I thought the 360/PS3/PC version was really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 It's universally considered bad because it's compared to Chaos Theory. I personally thought it was ok personally but Conviction. Ugh. It was a fun Jason Bourne game I guess. And Kenshi. Maybe. I've seen ONE clip that interests me but a lot of the game is supposed to take place in daylight too. Also I've basically given up on them learning how to do Mercs vs Spies again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 It's actually two different games, the Xbox/PS2/Gamecube/Wii version bears only the most superficial resemblance to the 360/PS3/PC version. Almost all the levels are different, the plot is different, the mechanics are different, everything. And it's certainly not universally considered bad. I'd even be skeptical that it's generally considered bad. It is generally considered not-as-good-as-Chaos-Theory, but that's not the same thing as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I played them both and the Xbox version was way better than the 360 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Which Double Agent did you play? The Xbox/PS2/Gamecube/Wii version was pretty bad, but I thought the 360/PS3/PC version was really good. Are you high? The PS2/Xbox version was done by Ubisoft Montreal (creators of the series) and was more in-line with the previous games. It was the superior version of DA. The PS3/360 version (which was handled by Ubisoft Shangai, aka the "bad" SC studio) wasn't terrible, but it was seriously flawed and the new stuff they tried simply didn't work. Edited April 1, 2013 by FLD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I actually had no idea there were two versions. I played the 360 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 It's been a while so I could be remembering wrong, but I think they actually failed to even mention that fact right up until the games came out and people realized they were completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Idk, maybe I'm crazy because the Metacritic ratings of the last-gen one are somewhat higher than of the current-gen one, but I just remember playing the one on Xbox and not thinking it was very good, and then playing the one on 360 and really liking it a lot. I have since played the 360 one more than once, but haven't played the original Xbox one since launch so I don't remember it very clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Eh, maybe with new consoles having just come out it was hard to go back to the previous gen? Personally, I thought the PS3 version was okay but that the double agent headquarter stuff was repetitive and annoying. And then there's all those daytime missions... Honestly, I like Conviction more than that version of Double Agent while the PS2 version I feel is the second best after Chaos Theory. The prison level in the PS3 version was amazing, though. The one on PS2 was nowhere near as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 Actually at the time I didn't have a next-gen console. Didn't get a 360 until a year later. Maybe it's as simple as the first level being way better like you said and that coloring my experience throughout the rest of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf and Statler Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 If daylight missions are a negative for you, then you're in the same camp I am. The best Splinter Cell is the "sneaking through office/ building/factory" Splinter Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 At first I didn't like daylight missions, but they were designed so you could still be stealthy so after a time I came to like them fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'm not entirely against the idea of daytime missions. But I thought the ones in Double Agent just weren't very good. The oil rig level in the original Splinter Cell takes place during the day, but it's a great mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted April 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Daylight missions are fine because, yknow, it can still be dark in places in the daytime. I can think of a whole bunch of daylight missions from stealth games that are great. I always heard that the Xbox gen version of Double Agent was far superior to the 360 gen one. And I never played it. Only played the 360 one, and it was relatively enjoyable but so flawed. Think I might have to source a cheap copy of DA for the Xbox and give it a try. On light/dark stealth stuff these days, Mark of the Ninja is totes where it's at. Such a good game. Ghosting it currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 *sigh*... new trailer... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9Ey4GQY_kJg This fucking voice... I just... ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) My new working theory to make the voice something I can accept: Sam Fisher is not his actual name, it's a code name, so this actually is a different person. I'm sure the game will torpedo that theory though by making references to him doing things in the previous games. *Edit* - Wait, WTF? "Silence" is killing everyone in the room? Do they honestly not understand what people want when they say they want the ability to ghost the game? I ghosted Dishonored and it was AWESOME. I ghosted (for the most part) the old Splinter Cells and that was was awesome. Let me ghost this one too. *Edit 2* - On further thought I guess I didn't really ghost the old Splinter Cells, I just knocked people out rather than killing them. Edited April 16, 2013 by TheMightyEthan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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