madbassman39 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Saw it Saturday Morning. It was great! I'll have to see what GOH has to say about the JJ Abrams fuckery to see if I agree with, but there were many sequences that screamed his name. I don't hate the guy's film style so I enjoyed it. Reveal hidden contents HAN! NO! Reveal hidden contents Kylo Ren was a great villain. I loved his attempt to be Vader while failing. I was so afraid we'd get Vader 2.0 and instead we got someone who was clearly not as understanding of how the galaxy works as Vader was in IV.Snoke threw me off at first with his size, but after learning it was a hologram I guess we'll see how big he really is. I bet hes Yoda sized. Every sequence with Snoke was an Abrams directed sequence for sure, but boy did it make him feel menacing.I have a feeling that maybe Fin will develop force abilities too, mostly because he was great with that lightsaber.After Han's death, Rey and Leia hugging was really well done, but I almost feel like it would've been more impactful with Chewie and Leia hugging. Nothing got me cheering in the movie like when Chewie saved the day though! After having spent some time mulling over the movie, its going to take some time for me to get used to the idea that this is Star Wars. Not for anything other than the fact that Star Wars was a "complete saga" until now, with two more films in tow and a handful more side stories coming up. Its one of the best Star Wars movies made. It feels modern, full of action and just hit all the right notes. It deserves the Episode VII title. My fourth favorite film, and if it wasn't for my nostalgic love of the series it may even rank higher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents I've seen a lot of folks wanting Snoke to be like Yoda sized, but I'd say Snoke is a giant no-humour zone. Most of the serious-faced scenes were in Snokes chamber. Serkis has said he's about 7-8' tall, and since that's smaller than the hologram I'd reckon that's his actual height. Palpatine was not 80' high, nor did he end up being 4' tall either, despite his hologram suggesting eitherway: I agree would have been nice to see Chewie n Leia hug near end. Folks have said that there's some back-story stuff for them with the whole "life debt" thing, and essentially he's ashamed to even face Hans now-widow for failing that. But within the film you don't know that so yeah it seems a bit off. Though I guess not overly developed Rey had grown attached to Han too, with him even going to take him on as an apprentice/second mate and I think Leia was aware of her lack of father-figure in life up until that point. Do realise that leaves Millennium Falcon without a pilot. Like it's fine Rey n Finn piloting while it's being commandeered, and Chewie at the end to help them escape. But now we'll have two whole films without Han flying the Falcon. edit: rewatching trailers and yeah even they telegraph Rey as being Lukes kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents Trailers: yeah, the first trailer heavily suggests it, with the whole "the force is strong in my family" part. Life Debt: that's not even necessarily cannon anymore, because it was only ever from the EU to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 On 12/21/2015 at 1:22 PM, TheMightyEthan said: Reveal hidden contents Trailers: yeah, the first trailer heavily suggests it, with the whole "the force is strong in my family" part. Life Debt: that's not even necessarily cannon anymore, because it was only ever from the EU to begin with. Reveal hidden contents 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 @HH: Reveal hidden contents He said it wasn't cannon! @TME Reveal hidden contents Apparently it is (though I'm not digging through a bunch of books, no matter how small the new EU may be, to find out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents Life Debt exists in KOTOR, which is set long before the films so, therefore, it must be cannnnon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 KOTOR isn't part of the new cannnnnnnnon. Other than the movies and The Clone Wars TV show nothing made before the Disney purchase is cannnnnnnnon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon#List_of_Star_Wars_canon @Dean: Reveal hidden contents Life Debt is the subtitle of the second Aftermath book, which has a picture of the Millennium Falcon on its cover, so I think it's safe to assume based on that life debts are still canon. Also, it's apparently mentioned in passing in an episode of Star Wars: Rebels, as well was Qui-Gon claiming a life debt on Jar Jar in Episode I. Though obviously the Episode I thing doesn't apply to Wookie customs. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Life_debt http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aftermath:_Life_Debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents Why are there not any services offering to get your life-debts cancelled? Or at least recovering any PPI that may have been mis-sold with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 If I recall correctly, KOTOR is canon but for only light side choices... I think. I'm get conflicting information here and there and at this point I think it is safe to assume it isn't...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ooh, Kotor refs! Reveal hidden contents I think elements of KOTOR are canon, at least according to canon non-movie sources. The Visual Dictionary references the Scourging of Malachor V (Ren's lightsaber is of a design from that era). One of the galactic maps released by Disney also depicts Rakata Prime.I think Snoke is a big ol' Wizard of Oz misdirection. The hologram we see is deceptive about more things than just his size, I'd wager. He may not even be a living thing, but a holocron-like recording or a Dark Side Force Ghost . I have more thoughts, but no time right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Disney declares Bioware's lore is non-canon. *Edit - to follow-up on what GOH said, I would be surprised if literally nothing from KOTOR made it into the new canon, but it's not all canon so you can't cite it. Like, something in KOTOR may or may not end up being canon, and we can't know until it's referenced in a definitely-canon source. Edited December 21, 2015 by TheMightyEthan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Yeah I think KOTOR is in the "it's canon unless something in the films rules it non-canon" bracket atm. Cos it's set a long long long long long time ago in a galaxy far away it's not been as straightforwardly removed from canon as all the post RotJ books about emperor clones n han n leias kid being a new sith lord n the aliens invading from outside the galaxy n all that. Very little from it would contradict much of the films n VII. They did get rid of Force Unleashed though, which was considered...err if I remember my terms right: T canon(?) at the time (making it canon only second to the films) since it was part of the "Star wars Multiemedia Project" or whatever the name was. A shame since apart from the "force can pull a star destroyer out the sky" did set up the Rebel Alliance quite well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 This is my jumping off point for Star Wars discussion. If it's not in the films, I really don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 You don't even care about KOTOR?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Oh, it's been so long... Dean! Ban him! BAAAAN HIIIIIM!!11!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I imagine he's there trying to leave Taris and he's all "this feels too much like work". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 On 12/21/2015 at 3:18 PM, TheMightyEthan said: You don't even care about KOTOR?! Not from a lore point of view no. I think the films should be as self contained as possible. That's not to say that I don't recognise that back stories from outside the films can be canonical, it's just that it don't care about it. Much like I don't care a great deal about the Silmarillion, Eru and Melkor when I am watching LotR. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Non-film lore is suspect at best when it comes to interpreting or predicting elements of the film's and the filmmakers should not be beholden to non-film canon. But the films are also part of the canon of the larger shared universe, and I like seeing elements from KOTOR showing up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Aw fuck, I had this really long post written out with my thoughts on the movie but then I accidentally backed out and lost it all. I don't feel like doing it all over so I'll just give the short version here. Reveal hidden contents I really liked the movie but I have a few nitpicks:1) Rey is a textbook Mary Sue. She's a better pilot than Han, she's a natural at the force with no training, and she beats the villain in her very first lightsaber duel ever. I'm actually struggling to find any flaws in her character. I guess she was a little naive about expecting her father to come home? But that's really not much. Her actress was fine, though. No complaints about her.2) Kylo Ren shouldn't have lost his duel. I know he was injured, but a heavily trained force user against a total amateur? It diminishes his threat to make him lose like that. He can't kill Rey, obviously, but she could have just held him off in a stalemate until the ground split them apart. That would have been okay with me.3) Too much is left for the sequels. The movie sets up all these questions and then never answers any of them. I know that they want to spread this stuff out but none of the dangling threads they set up are ever revisited. I know they're not going to answer all the questions in the first movie but couldn't they give us something? What happened to Luke's jedi school? Why does Kylo Ren idolize Vader? Who is Rey's father (probably Luke)? Who is Finn's family? Again, I know it's too much for one movie, but they could have at least picked one of these things to address.4) Snoke? That's the best name you could come up with? Really?5) Come on, don't advertise Luke Skywalker in the trailers if he's not going to show up until the end and not even have any spoken lines. I was looking forward to seeing him and then the film just ends.Other than that, I thought it was pretty awesome. I don't even really mind that it retreads A New Hope that much. I'm glad to get a new, non-shitty Star Wars movie at ALL so I'll take what I can get. The new characters are all pretty likable, although I do hope they tone Rey down a bit in future installments. The action is good and well-shot, the humorous bits are actually funny, and it was great to see Han, Chewie, and Leia again.But you just know that as Harrison Ford was getting impaled through the gut, he was secretly thinking to himself I'M FINALLY FREE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I can answer one of your questions: Reveal hidden contents What happened to Luke's Jedi school? Kylo Ren killed the students. As for him not losing the duel, I agree. This was a guy who was able to stop a blaster bolt mid-air, and then hold it there for an extended period of time while doing completely unrelated things, seemingly not having to exert any effort to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents I should rephrase that to say what happened AT Luke's jedi school. Ren was obviously not always evil but clearly some shit went down while he was in training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ah poopy. The forum actually has an auto-save feature (not sure if it loads it up into site DB, or if it's held in cookie). If you go back to where you were posting and hit refresh it'll say at the bottom of the RTE "autosave time and date]" might still have it Reveal hidden contents Assuming that in killing off Lukes padawan school he didn't have to engage in a lightsaber duel (and if it was against Luke I've a feeling Ren would have lost) that was his first duel. He's also clearly shown to not be in control of his emotions much, his inabilty to properly feel the darkside too doesn't help him (he is even having to punch his wound to rack up pain to power his darkside). But yeah they answered both the "what happened to Lukes school" (Ren killed them), and "why does he idolize Vader" (he's his grandad and the most recent large dark lord) As for Luke he appeared like in two trailers, and it's just the scene with his hand and R2-D2. There was a big thing of him not been on the poster too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents I interpreted Kylo Ren hitting himself as his way to keep himself from passing out due to blood loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Both of those explanations make more sense than my interpretation, which was just that it was him being weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Reveal hidden contents I think Ren's wound-hitting was about using his pain to help him focus on the Dark Side.I think Ren is a great character, and I wonder why it seems like he feels he could 'fall' to the Light Side at any moment and why, if that's the case, he has chosen to be evil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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