Thursday Next Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Ok, your definition of a Mary Sue is very different to mine then, so far as I'm concerned a Mary Sue is perfect at everything and saves the day, Rey makes numerous mistakes and doesn't save anyone. The fact that she is a competent female character does not automatically make her a Mary Sue in a universe where all the male heroes are also magically competent at stuff they've never done before. IX won't show any relation to Jesus because the whole point of VIII was to throw away this concept of dynastic, hereditary Jedi, that the only powerful force users can be Skywalkers, and to open the force up to everyone whether you're the patricidal son of princess or Spoiler someone who mucks out the Yoda-horses on Vegasworld My comment regarding the kids film thing is that there are not necessarily going to be a lot of exposition-y bits about how everyone got where they are or why they can do what they can. You say that the prequels were the most for kids, but I disagree. There is far too much banging on about trade, blockades and senate votes for it to be a kids film, there's heaps of tedious explanations about midichlorians and all that stuff that is supposed to explain the world none of which particularly appeals to kids. I've never once heard my niece or nephew talk about how or why for example only baddies can use force lightning, I've never heard them utter the word "midichlorian", they just accept that some people are wizard-monk-ninjas and enjoy it. The prequels, if they were made for anyone, were made for grown up fans of the originals who wanted to know why everything was as it was at the start of A New Hope (whether they did a good job of that is another subject altogether). So when kids see Rey using the force to grab a lightsaber, they don't think "hang on, that's a level 3 Jedi ability! Has she completed the necessary classes to get her diploma in force-pulling?" they just think that shit is cool. When Leia did her thing, Spoiler they would be immediately bored by an explanation about mass, gravity, newtonian physics and how little force is required to move things in those conditions, so it's good that there is no clumsy conversation between Leia and someone else where they put a massive hat on top of her being able to use the force to move herself through space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogie 2.0 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) @Thursday Next I'm sorry to say, but the Mary Sue concept is actually a defined thing. And the "mistakes" she makes are part of the plot, not because of her own personality or faults. Also, I think competent =/= what I'm saying. It wasn't me who's said the prequels were for kids, George Lucas did. But I thank you for the analysis anyway . Edited January 31, 2018 by Bogie 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogie 2.0 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) Whoops double posted, @mods! Please delete this. Edited January 31, 2018 by Bogie 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Rey was Mary-Sue-esque in TFA, but she fails at her first two overarching goals in TLJ in that she can't convince Luke to join the Resistance and she does not turn Ren to the Light. I agree that it is somewhat jarring at how quickly she masters certain (basic?) Force powers (and how powerful Ren seemed to be right out the gate, too), but it's not a big deal to me. The story and characters matter, and Rey's adversity isn't in learning specific Force techniques, but in overcoming her own preconceptions and growing into her heroism while understanding that the Force isn't a cheat code that lets its users win at everything. I think that's a very Star Wars arc. Yes, people will be pissed about a powerful female main character; people are pissed about all sorts of dumb things. Most protagonists in blockbuster movies are the embodiment of audience expectations and social pressures; it's part of what makes them pleasing to watch for a mass audience. because there are folks lashing back against the recent focus on women's issues and equal representation, of course there is backlash against Rey. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Mary Sue is a defined thing, and it's very much in line with Thursday's comments. From Wikipedia, "A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience. Sometimes, the name is reserved only for women, but more often the name is used for both genders. A male can also be referred to as a Marty Sue or Gary Stu, but Mary Sue is used more commonly." The problem with this Mary Sue argument in Star Wars is that it doesn't reflect the original trope. Mary Sue characters were (and still are) author inserts who make no mistakes and have all the best and most important abilities to perfectly defeat/overcome their obstacle. If you want to see a very recent example of this, I give you a Top Post from r/Overwatch that, while very well designed, is very much cringe and self-insert. Thing is, this trope treads very closely to superheroes and Chosen One archetypes because typically their only conflicts are plot-oriented and not actual character flaws. Trying to define a line where Luke can't be a Mary Sue, but Rey must be a Mary Sue is asinine and petty. They're both a leading protagonist in their respective films that serve a role to move the plot with their actions. Things like training and self-development are abridged because the audience, in a span of 90-120 minutes, are shown more of how amazing Main Protagonist is and why they are in that role. Anakin was such a poor character in the Prequel Trilogy because his constant conflict was about being the "Chosen One." That he's so powerful, quick to learn, and capable of Force and practical skills that any mistake he could have made was eventually resolved by him being the "Chosen One." Unlike in The Clone Wars series were he makes mistakes, has to overcome both people and his own emotions. It doesn't even take multiple seasons as The Rako Hardeen arc does more with Anakin's character than three whole feature length films. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Really should be "Lando: A Star Wars Story" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 Star Wars Rebels has now finished. I dunno what I can or cannot chat about. Also somewhat unsure how I feel on it, and how it ties in with the other bits and bobs. Certainly pretty end. Anyone else watching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 I need to find time to binge watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted March 7, 2018 Report Share Posted March 7, 2018 I watched it Monday night, and was lucky enough to catch it before it all started. I didn't realize it was going to be three episodes making for a 1.5 hour special. The first of the three episodes dragged on, though it did a good job setting up for the other two. I feel that's where we actually get our series finale because the plan is in motion. All the characters are fulfilling their roles and there's hiccups in the plan, but we're not sure if the bad guys actually have the upper hand. That's summarizing it all too much. Ultimately I feel like whether someone disliked or liked Ezra in the series, his character and actions in these last episodes was very mature and definitely worthy of being a Jedi Knight. I'm cool with Ezra more so being lost in space than dead, though I have to wonder how considering the guy went into hyperspace on an unsealed bridge. Also, Rex on Endor is CANON! Now we can call that old soldier in Endor Rex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 I'm comforted knowing that Carrie Fisher got to slap Oscar Issac about 50 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Star Wars Fans: The Last Jedi getting 91% on Rotten Tomatoes is because of Disney shills, but Solo getting 73% is because people are prejudice against prequels! I'm beginning to think Star Wars has become a worse fandom than the Rick and Morty fandom. One will get entirely butthurt and cry about their childhood and its constant ruined state; the other will freak out over sauce and yell "Pickle Rick" occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Fandoms in general are pretty terrible, especially for anything long-running. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 More Clone Wars in-bound. I wonder if they'll do anything with the fact Rebels introduced time travel (of sorts) to Star Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Figured this might tickle peoples fancy. (and yes they're "space ships" but at he notes there's plenty of times they're shown in atmosphere dog fights n such) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 I always thought that, in atmosphere, the starfighters' shields sort of round out their terrible aerodynamics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Video is dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 I want to watch it. 19 hours ago, Mr. GOH! said: I always thought that, in atmosphere, the starfighters' shields sort of round out their terrible aerodynamics. I like that this implies that as their shields take damage their aerodynamics would get worse. That's kind of cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 Looks pretty 'cool' and 'stylish' but not super sure otherwise. But hey, got more Clone Wars coming so that's fine. Does feel like it's maybe trying to make up for some missing plot points/character development from Force Awakens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 Podracing was one of the cooler parts of the prequels. Shame there's no podracing VR game. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 18 hours ago, deanb said: Shame there's no podracing VR game. I didn't even know this was a thing I wanted, but now I can't think of anything I want more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Bet before playing the video you can remember the sound. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalCaveman Posted April 12, 2019 Report Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 So... People are speculating that Darth Sedious survived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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