Star Wars

[Mr. GOH!]

I dunno, 

 

 

I really don't think the movies will get into the Sith Order as distinct from a Sith race thing. It seems like the distinction in the EU only exists [existed?] to make different EU authors' stories work within the shared everything-is-canon master continuity. I think it's confusing and a little dumb. I mean, here in the USA we essentially wiped out the native population, and although we name our cities and states using Native languages, non-Natives don't go around calling ourselves Iroquois or Lakotan. Why would an order of narcissistic evildoers name themselves after an extinct race rather than their ideals or, more probably, its founder?

 

Edited December 2, 2015 by Mr. GOH!

[deanb]

Possibly.

 

I think that we'll see at least some of the pre-film EU stuff pulled from bits and bobs to colour the story. Without the EU a lot of the lore is mostly gone. Heck, the films don't even call Ewoks Ewoks that's how little there is to the films for the lore. Might not pull outright, but definitely bits of flavour tasted from here n there. Abrhams is a geek and has Simon Peg onboard for consultation. I imagine both have dipped their toes in the EU to some degree. The base is "Starkiller Base" which is a massive wink and a nod to the fandom.

 

 

Anyway as promised here's some glimpses from reading up in Empire. Less story spoilers more bit about some of the actors and such but I will spoiler wrap

 

 

• Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) has never seen an Adam Driver film. Though he wants to change that since 1. He'll be missing Star Wars 2. he sees it as disrespect to fellow actors. Also his backstory I think he'll do a pretty good bad guy.
• Harrison Ford was like talking to a brick wall. Super professional, but it's clear he isn't a Star Wars fanboy in any sense. It's a job.
• Mark Hamill is happy to be back, found the beard itchy as hell
• Finn is kid in a sweet shop. But can tell that from his trailer reaction video.
• Gwendoline Christie will be interesting to see. I get the impression Phasma isn't "cruel" but...dedicated.
• Anthony Daniels is rather impressed with BB-8
• Chewbacca has a paunch now, and a few grey hairs but otherwise unchanged (was already 200yrs old in old films iirc)
• Carrie Fisher wanted the old buns but wasn't allowed.
• They're using different lenses for filming First Order and Resistance. Resistance gets older style ones used in Star Wars for "softer feel" and First Order get newer sharper lenses.
• Anakins lightsaber has a few minor tweaks, mainly extra detailing. I imagine cos of higher res filming these days.

 

 

 

 

Also the map (someone elses scan)

 

 

[TheMightyEthan]

Does that map put Bespin and Hoth in the same star system? Or is it just that the stars are very close together? Putting them in the same system would solve the question of how the Millennium Falcon made it there with a busted hyper drive, but would create a new plot hole regarding how the rebels never noticed the high traffic mining colony in the same system as their remote hidden base.

[Mr. GOH!]

"Higher res filming these days?" Pretty certain actual film has been higher resolution than 4k for a long time. IIRC, typical old-school film is something more like 6k. But since most of us watched the original trilogy on a 480p TV for the first time, and perhaps even on shitty VHS, I understand the confusion.

[deanb]

Typical old film has no resolution, but instead has grain. Quality of the film stock used affects the overall quality of the film, so when you do convert it to digital it does affect how much quality you can get out of it before it notably degrades.

(lest ye forget I did study VFX in uni)

 

Anywho: Episode I to VI in 3 minutes

[Mr. GOH!]

Well, film grain is not the same as resolution, but the fact of the matter is that modern 4k cameras don't match the effective resolution of good old (non-dirt-cheap) film, so saying they did X in TFA because the original trilogy was filmed at a lower resolution doesn't make much sense. 

[TheMightyEthan]

Most movies are actually filmed in 8k or higher.

 

But since most of us watched the original trilogy on a 480p TV for the first time, and perhaps even on shitty VHS, I understand the confusion.

Not only did I watch it on a shitty 480i TV (progressive scan TVs weren't really a thing until ~2000), but it was on a shitty VHS that was recorded at home from a TV broadcast, so yeah...

[TheMightyEthan]

Most movies are actually filmed in 8k or higher.

Apparently I'm full of shit, and 4k is the standard for filming. I have no idea where the 8k idea came from.  My only thought is that apparently lots of old films when they're digitally remastered are scanned in at 8k, edited/touched up at 8k, and then downsampled to 1080p or 4k for production.

 

Also, apparently for the last 20 years when movies were being converted to digital formats like DVD/Bluray they were scanned at 4k, edited at 4k, downsampled to 480p (DVD) or 1080p (Bluray), and then the 4k masters were just fucking deleted.  It never occurred to anyone that they might be useful for any reason...

 

Finally, to come back on-topic, Attack of the Clones was apparently shot with just 1080p cameras (!), and then they cropped it to 2.40:1 so the actual final image is only 1920x817.  And that's the originals!  What the hell were they thinking?!

[deanb]

I know film grain isn't the same as resolution. Comparing film with digital is apples to oranges. Both are fruit but you'd measure how good they are in different ways.

 

The original film was half filmed in a dessert, and much of it is composited together from stop motion and green screen, to the point bits of it has tie fighters on very clear squares, and one iconic is irreversibly black for part of the film and it wasn't until decades later that the original lightsaber battles were able to be digitally touched up to remove artefacts created from the in-camera effect used at the time.

 

I'll know for future not to use it as an off-hand.

 

@Ethan: The vast majority of films are not filmed in 8K. I think the best RED is only 6K and that's like the kind of thing you'd get on very high end projects like Avatar 2 or something IIRC Hobbit was on the early RED Ones which were 4K.

Unless you mean as in film..films are at 8K which goes back to "film =/= digital"

[TheMightyEthan]

@Ethan: The vast majority of films are not filmed in 8K.

I already ninja'd you on that.

 

They do have 8k cameras, it's just almost nothing has actually been made with them yet.

[Mr. GOH!]

Sorry, Dean, I am just a nitpicker. But you are absolutely right; the image quality of the OT was not consistently great. Personally, I think the minor redesign/touch-up of Ani's saber has more to do with the fact that the lightsaber(s) will get more close-ups in TFA than in the OT. More flair looks better, I'd guess.

[deanb]

It's only relatively minor detailing, a bezel here, a few extra screws there, finer grip texture.

The original props weren't known to be overly great either: wasn't until Revenge of The Sith that Darth Vader finally got a symmetrical helmet, and the original storm trooper armour was known to cut into the actors as it wasn't produced with a particularly smooth edge.

 

edit: Also this is Harrison Fords Empire interview summed up:

http://i.imgur.com/Kfh9sJT.gifv

[deanb]

https://youtu.be/t5K30QSH_m0

 

So Sky made a promo trailer for their Star Wars marathon and it's pretty damn good. It's almost like the original posters (I'm not a huge fan of the new poster tbh. Way too busy, and I like the illustrated painter style of the prequel/newer originals)

[Mal]

Ah... I'm caught up with Rebels now. Visually, it is usually better than TCW but it can be inconsistent. Main thing is the characters can appear quite flat. As for story, I suppose it's not as mature as it could be. There's hints of it but nothing near TCW.

[TCP]

I watched A New Hope for the first time since 2003 on Friday night. I forgot how great that movie was.

I grew up almost entirely on these VHS copies:



But DVDs I'm watching are the "Special Edition". Holy shit, the fans weren't over exaggerating, there's so much unnecessary BS especially during the Mos Eisley scenes.

 

Onwards to Empire, with hopefully less garbage added in.

[deanb]

The Mos Eisley stuff is pretty overdone with silly CG animals, but there's some pretty good changes, like the shot of the X-Wings going around Yavin looked pretty pants with the original models. I linked a video earlier that showed the various changes and while some suck, many work and make sense within the film. I've watched IV recently and I have a Greedo shot first shot (the latest has them shoot at the same time)

[TCP]

I'm currently watching Attack of the Clones, for the first time in at least a decade+. What a terrible fucking movie. The acting from everyone except maybe Ewan McGregor is just completely abysmal, the CGI is bad, the writing is horrid. It was a bad movie when it was released and it's just gotten worse since then. Why the fuck is Yoda using a lightsaber? Come the fuck on. Not to mention how terrible he looks in 2002 compared to 1979. But here's what really bothers me....

 

Owen Lars. Ok so pretty much most of the major references in the original trilogy don't really jive with the prequels. Leia says she remembers her mother... girl, your mom died minutes after your birth. Obi-Wan says Anakin was a great pilot.... bro, he had never even been into space or in any vehicle other than a podracer when you met him. He flew a fucking ship on AUTOPILOT in Phantom Menace. But Owen Lars is the worst. He really gives Luke, and the viewer, the impression that he knew Anakin fairly well, encouraging him not to go off to fight, and recognizing Anakin's traits in Luke. But he met Anakin for all of 5 minutes before Anakin rushed off to save his mother and then when he came back Anakin was clearly grieving about his mother, and still wasn't there for that long. And then Anakin fucking leaves without even saying goodbye. Ok, that's weird BUT THAT'S NOT EVEN IT. Shmi Skywalker seemingly brought C3PO with her to the moister farm. Cool, that's rad. And I understand C3PO's memory gets wiped. But does Owen Lars also get his memory wiped? Cause Shmi has been living there for years, so C3PO has been there FOR YEARS. Even if he doesn't have his gold plating on him, he's still C3PO. And then R2 fucking D2 rolls out during the funeral of Owen Lars' stepmother, a pretty fucking important moment of his life you'd think he remembers it. And then the two droids leave TOGETHER. 20 years later, Owen fucking buys BOTH droids and even talks to C3PO, who introduces himself as C3PO, and hears from Luke how the R2 unit has a message for Obi-Wan AND HE DOESN'T PIECE IT TOGETHER?! Holy shit George Lucas. It's not like you're trying to write a prequel to Game of Thrones where there's hundreds of characters and centuries of backstory and lore.

 

Also the Trade Federation guys are embarrassingly racist and WHY CAN R2D2 FLY?!??! Why didn't he ever display this ability in the OT?? He never once had a moment where flying might be useful?? WHY ARE THE CLONE TROOPERS CG?!?!

 

I'm haunted by the film you should never have made. 

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by The Cowboy Poet

[Mal]

AOTC is the worst of the prequels. The entire franchise is chock full of inconsistencies as well, especially if you include the Disney expanded universe. As for Anakin and his piloting skills, his skills from piloting the podracer kind of translates to his space ship piloting skills. It's all in the Force. Of course the PT doesn't really get that and a lot of other stuff about Anakin across. You have to go to TCW to get why he was great and why he fell the way he did. In the PT, he's a whiny, antsy kid/teen/young adult (He's roughly 9, 19 and 22 in the PT movies).

 

Yes, CG clone troopers. For R2D2 flying... eh. I like to believe that at the point of the OT, he's old as hell so wasn't maintained as well as he should be.

 

Lastly... I get Yoda is wise and all but why isn't he allowed to use a lightsaber? He's a Jedi and all Jedi learn how to use it.

[deanb]

Wait...Anakin was a skilled pilot. Yeah R2-D2 is easy explained purely through age. By the time of Episode VII they'll both be pretty fucking old.

 

I guessed C-3P0 was a product type. "My name is iPhone 6s, I am able to communicate in whatever language you speak". R2 was only around for a bit. It'd be a bit like..well recognising someones iPhone kicking around 30 years later, especially now one is gold plated. Folks refer to R2-D2 as an "R2-unit/type" several times which would especially enforce that it's just a model type. We see several C-3P0 types throughout the series in various shades.

[TheMightyEthan]

The prevailing theory about Leia remembering her mother (cause remember she says it's only vague impressions) is that it's actually force visions or something from when she was very very young, or conceivably while they were still in the womb, because Leia is force sensitive too.

[Mr. GOH!]

Yoda, like Palpatine, shouldn't ever need to use a lightsaber.

[TCP]

Yeah, they should be above it. Yoda's all about being wise, there's nothing about him that suggests he'd be a master swordsman until he starts flipping around in the air like an asshole. 

[TCP]

Welp, I just watched Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith. I think this must have been only the second time I've seen it, because I didn't remember it well. Again, there was an over reliance on CG, even for scenes that could have just used a built set or shot on location (the final scene with Obi-Wan giving Luke to his aunt and uncle, anyone??). But that said, outside of General Grevious (who was dumb as fuck BTW) the CG looked much better than ATOC, though it is starting to look dated. Most of the Jedi went out like little bitches, only that one kid (plus Obi-Wan and Yoda) put up any fight. Chewbaca felt forced (ahahahahaha) into the movie, but it was still kind of cool to see Yoda interacting with him. The whole ending was very rushed, if Lord of the Rings can have like a 45 minute ending, we can at least see Yoda arriving in Dagobah, hear Obi-Wan explain what happened to Anakin, stuff like that. I mean the movie is all set up anyways, they should have gone all in. The dialog (and acting) between Anakin and Padme was still awful and cringeworthy. 

 

The whole reason Anakin fell to the dark side was pretty stupid. Seriously, Anakin, you couldn't tell you're being played? Dumb. 

 

All that said, it was light years ahead of ATOC and TPM, and, dare I say, a "good" movie, or at least I enjoyed it, instead of getting mad at the TV the entire time like I did for Episode 2. The fight scene with Anakin and Obi-Wan was fantastic. Obi-Wan and Anakin actually felt like friends in the beginning (something that was very lacking in ATOC) and their quips back and forth to each other, kind of, sort of, felt like classic Star Wars. R2 was boss as fuck. Jar Jar had about 2 lines in it. And Ewan McGregor honestly felt like Alec Guinness. 

 

I think the major problem with this movie is it didn't feel like a conclusion to a trilogy, rather, a set up to another. I guess that's the problem with a prequel where all the events are so well defined in the original films. There was very little resolution to anything, it wasn't a movie on it's own. It was suppose to be the "last" Star Wars movie, instead it felt like a cheap tie in film. And as I mentioned earlier, it didn't even do that well, since everything after Obi-Wan and Anakin's duel was so rushed. 

 

Also how the fuck does Obi-Wan go from mid-30s in ROTS to mid-70s within the 20 years between Revenge and New Hope??? 

 

In summary, I guess I just really want a movie set 10 years after Revenge of the Sith, starring Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, where he goes on one last mission for Yoda/Organa/whoever. 

[Mal]

The movie you want is pretty much the last story arc in TCW but with Yoda. It would be interesting to see Obi-wan's version of it though. He wouldn't be fighting anybody though so the mood of this movie would be of self reflection and to understand the apex of Jedi training: Force spirit.

 

Anyhow, to set the mood for the rest of this post...

 

 

Seems like spoilers are starting to show up. I might've been spoiled on Snoke's look and potentially who he is. Am I seriously going to have to abandon the internet for a week starting on Monday?

[deanb]

Yeah the advanced screening is Monday, and cinema staff get it unlocked Wednesday (meant to be for QC, and while Disney have said not to run employee shows you know at least a few will and there'll be at least a few members of staff being complete knobheads).

 

On the prequel front I remember reading an article a while back about how prequels are really bad. Wasn't specifically aimed at Star Wars (or at all from what I remember, I think it was just a generic story-telling sense) but applies pretty well in how you're pretty much tied down in what you can do within the story, you can't suddenly realise what would make a better ending because that's what you're tied to and always leading to. Instead of having a scenario and some characters in that world and seeing where they take you, you're leading to a point. Every traditional story stars with "once upon a time". Not watched it myself, but I hear Gotham sucks and I imagine that it's having the same issue. You can't go "well we've these interesting characters in this interesting city, let's play with them" cos at the end of the day you know where they all end up.

 

As for Ewan McGregor I imagine Hayden's acting wouldn't be seen as half as bad if if he wasn't alongside McGregor for a stark contrast. Though the brotherly love stuff was pretty clear. There's a great video kicking about (lemme see if I can find it..nope sorry guys) showing all the Alec Guinness mannerisms he utilises as the prequels progress. Ian McDiarmid was great too, but he's returning for that role. Samuel L Jackson was Samuel L Jackson. But yeah, Padme n Anakin had absolutely trash dialogue throughout the prequels.

 

 

Oh n a quick preview of the score: