Star Wars

[Mr. GOH!]

Prequels are not inherently bad, but they are hard to pull off. I think the new X-Men movies do it in an acceptable manner and, of course, Fargo season 2 is even better than season 1 (and season 1 was fucking fantastic) despite being a prequel.

 

Hayden's acting should never be seen as half-bad; it is all-bad in the prequel trilogy. It is always painful to watch Anakin scenes regardless of the other actors in them. Ewan McGregor was okay, fucking Natalie Portman was terrible, and Ian McDiarmid did his hammy best to work with Lucas's terrible dialogue.

 

I fully expect TFA to have better acting than any of the previous SW films.

[Mal]

Finished Dark Disciple.

 

 

I think the take home with this book is to set up a sort of precedent for people to return from the Dark Side. Another thing is the additional nail to just how "fallen" the Jedi Order was prior to Order 66. Assassination? That is not the Jedi Way. The only ones who questioned it was, of course, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Yoda is sort of a maybe.

 

With all that said: Ventress died which sucks but it was always a possibility. I was hoping for her to survive since she would be interesting in Rebels. As for Vos, he survived the book. As for Order 66, I can't find anything to say he died which is interesting. He was on the same planet as Yoda when Order 66 was given and according to Legends, he lived. Nothing within the new canon to say he's dead. I hope he shows up eventually to teach Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra that one can come back from the Dark Side. Seems like a good in universe purpose. Do it for Ahsoka! Like come on... the chances of all three surviving, especially Ahsoka, this series is low.

 

 

 

[deanb]

Me the other day: Be aware that the premier is Monday and reviews on Wednesday so there'll be leaks before the public releases

Me today: God fucking dammit Present Dean, why didn't you listen to the wise Past Dean?

 

 

WHY?!?!?! Why did you click that. Are you a moron like me? I've literally just warned you moments before about the leaks.

 

Still if you're really keen on this:

 

Kylo Ren is Han's son. Kylo kills Han and Finn. Rey is the main Jedi, goes to seek out Luke at Leias directions.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. GOH!]

When are you going to see it, everybody? My tix are for Sunday afternoon.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Mr. GOH!

[TheMightyEthan]

Saturday at 5:00.  Trying to find that sweet spot between all the kids who will surely be at the matinee, and then most adults who are going to want to go to an evening show.

[deanb]

Thursday 7pm. Trying to decided if I want to go home, grab snack, then head back to down, or not tempt fate n go into town after work n grab food there. Just means an hour n half to kill.

[TheMightyEthan]

If we had a theater with assigned seating I might consider going on Thursday, but as is I don't want to have to fight with people to get seats.

[TCP]

Friday 9:45, assuming I can still get tix. Seeing it in 2D because fuck 3D.

[TheMightyEthan]

Fuck you, 3D all the way.

[deanb]

 

World Premier Pics:

http://imgur.com/gallery/BGzp0/

[Mal]

Regular 2D sometime Saturday or Sunday. I may even do a morning show. Depends on how my buddy feels like. I can also go alone and do an early Friday viewing... maybe?

[deanb]

So catching up on the VR stuff "Jakku Spy", BB-8 has significantly better holo tech over R2-D2 (also cool spider-man powers)

 

That's if it's canon mind

[TheMightyEthan]

That Jakku Spy stuff is cool.  For some reason though the VR keeps drifting.  It's weird, I don't think it's the hardware because most apps don't do that, but then there are a few that do (Jakku Spy, the rollercoaster you sent me, A Chair in a Room).

[madbassman39]

I was just catching up on this whole thread. The Owen/Peru was always a huge continuity flaw, one that I find to be beyond redeemable. Lets be honest, the Anakin should've been the same age as Luke was in the original movie at the beginning.

 

I always heard that Yoda and Palpatine were able to use lightsabers at their age because they were so proficient in the force. I honestly find that to be bullshit, because they didn't do any lightsaber fighting in the original trilogy. I always felt that if they were that good at the force they would not need the sabers.

 

Any how. Fingers crossed my girlfriends company allows me to join them to watch the movie mid day Friday, and that night I'll be doing a lightsaber battle in San Francisco.

[TheMightyEthan]

Re lightsabers: they do describe Yoda as "a great warrior" in the original trilogy, and while that could conceivably refer just to his standing as a general, the way the Jedi are portrayed as warrior monks to me implies that he would be a badass swordsman too.  Which is not to say he necessary would have used a lightsaber, but that if he did he would be amazing at it.

[Mal]

Is Yoda really pose to Force push and choke people into surrendering? Toss junk at the Sith?

[Mr. GOH!]

No, it's more along the lines of not needing to be violent to win. Forcing a physical confrontation is already a loss to the greatest Jedi Masters, at least to my mind. 

 

In Palpatine's case, a lightsaber should be more limited than directly using the power of the Dark Side. 

 

I do think that it makes sense that Yoda would have used a lightsaber at some point in his Jedi career, however.

[TheMightyEthan]

I'm struggling to imagine how a Jedi Master might defeat someone like Palpatine without violence (at least 3rd party violence, eg directing armies against him).  You obviously aren't going to diplomacy him.

[deanb]

Yeah it's all well n good saying they shouldn't use violence, but what other force skills are there available that you think would be used in conflict? Only passive ability Yoda really has is the ability to foresee the future and to not completely die when killed.

 

(also from a film sense it'd be a PITA to film like them standing across room from each other looking like they're shitting themselves as they use the force against each other in some astral-plane type way)

[Mr. GOH!]

I think indirect violence is implied in the structure of the Jedi Council, although it seems like even indirect violence should be avoided by Light Side Jedi. And, yes, it would be bad movie making to have Yoda and Palpatine just think hard at each other. Despite the many failings of ROTS, I do believe that Yoda knew or should have known he had already lost when he confronted Palpatine lightsaber in hand. 

 

But when I say that a powerful Jedi Master wouldn't need to resort to (direct) violence, it's more about that a Master would be able to direct events and avoid violence. Use of violence, even in defense, should always represent failure to a Jedi. I find that tension between non-violence and righteous violence in defense by a caste of warrior-monk-sorcerers to be very interesting, personally.

 

I think that, in the main, a Jedi's goals w/r/t Dark Side Force users would be: 1. to try to apprehend and turn them to the Light; failing that, 2. manipulate the Dark Side user into self-destruction, since that is the fate of those who follow the Dark Side; if that cannot be arranged, then, and only then, direct confrontation.

 

And, to be fair, direct violence didn't really work for the Jedi against Palpatine. It took his apprentice surprise attacking him, which is sort of a Sith tradition. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by Mr. GOH!

[TheMightyEthan]

To completely change the subject, I think they over-simplified the design of the storm trooper helmets.  I think the new ones look like the baby toy version of the old ones.

 

 

Which is not to say the old ones aren't kinda dumb if you look at them too long, just that they went too far in minimalizing them.

 

*Edit - @GOH: so it's not that there's no situation in which resorting to direct violence is appropriate, just that arriving at such a situation represents a failure.  I can get on board with that.  It's not like the Jedi are supposed to be infallible, so even the greatest Masters failing and ending up engaging in direct violence themselves still works in the setting, it just needs to be recognized as the failure it represents.

 

And actually, I think the films even stick to that for the most part, if you put aside Yoda's battle with Dooku.  The next time we see Yoda actually fighting someone is after everything has completely gone to shit for them.

Edited December 15, 2015 by TheMightyEthan

[deanb]

I think it's a bit extreme that resorting to violence is a failure. I'd say it represents a pretty limited viewpoint. I would say that Jedi shouldn't resort to pre-emptive violence, but reactionary defensive violence would be fine. For example Sikhs carry the Kirpan in order to defence, much in same way Jedi carry a lightsaber. They're not non-violent buddhists, they're "the guardians of peace".

 

As for the nudging events, that's pretty much what the Sith did in order to make the Empire. The Emperor was directly involved in only one fight and that was against Yoda, the Jedi Master of the time and the largest threat to his plans, otherwise he made other people fight for him or set up dominoes to get himself in a position of power.

 

@Ethan: I like the new designs. They're nice and modern and have an absolutely brilliant silhouette. Also there's more detailing in them than the OT Stormtrooper helmets....

[TheMightyEthan]

I'm looking back and forth between the original and the new helmets I posted and I'm not sure how you're saying there's more detailing to the newer ones...

[deanb]

Well the older ones literally have stickers on the side for vents for one. The newer one the mouth/nosepiece has like a sort of gripped diamond texture to it. There's the pretty subtle seems around the edge, which kinda remove the whole "vacuum molded in a single chunk" look the older models had. And it has the raised and slightly embossed cheekbone piece too. Also the eye pieces are shaped this time around rather than a sheet of plastic pushed in from the back.

 

I would imagine the changes are largely made due to the crisper film quality we have these days (as previously discussed RE:"film resolution"), and since production of this kinda prop has vastly improved too (see discussion on fixing Vaders helmet in Revenge of the Sith).

 

The older model is iconic, but the newer ones have their own silhouette without deviating so much that you can't see the root design (more so than the look of the Clone Tropper helmets in the prequels)

[Mr. GOH!]

The Sith engaged in a massive fake war full of indirect violence and sowed chaos across the galaxy on purpose. That's what a master Sith does instead of just marauding with around slaughtering people. 

 

Jedi use violence and can remain on the Light Side, but it must always be the last resort (and thus represent a failure of finding other ways to solve the problem).