Hot Heart Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 As an aside... In the scene where Finn wakes up on Jakku and goes to the crash, pulling Poe's jacket from the wreckage before it explodes, I was totally expecting Finn to be all in despair and then Poe to appear behind him after the big explosion and be, like, "Hey, you found my jacket. Nice job!" I think it's the tank scene in Last Crusade that took my mind there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Can we all agree that Abrams needs to tone down the comic relief? Way too goofy for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Quite well put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baconrath Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Why does helmetless Kylo Ren look like Andy Samberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Woohoo, just saw that the guy who wrote and directed Looper is writing and directing Episode VIII, and writing Episode IX. So that's promising. Less promising is that the writer/director of Jurassic Park: The Lost World is directing Episode IX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 Super low-level not-even-really-spoilers but I'm tagging it anyway for people who like to stay completely blind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbassman39 Posted December 21, 2015 Report Share Posted December 21, 2015 I had no idea there were Snoke being Yoda sized theories. I just think it would be ironic given how large his hologram was. I do like the idea of him being a holocron though.Many of my complaints in the film are nitpick-y so overall I loved it.I was thinking about Kylo Ren and the helmet issue. I agree that removing it for the interrogation sequence with Rey was important from a filming perspective, and agree that it would've had more impact during his confrontation with Han Solo. What I did not like however is after the interrogation of Rey, General Hux and Kylo Ren run into the room with Snoke and Ren doesn't have his helmet on. Its the age old movie problem in once we have revealed the character they will no longer mask their identity because the audience already knows. Of course this was only in a single sequence and it was right after Rey's immediate escape so you could argue that he ran straight there to cut off Hux selling him out to Snoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'll cast a third vote for Snoke being a holocron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'm between. Think Mal might be on the money with Grand Inquisitor, given the show is canon and it makes a lot of sense in many way. And for those watching the show they've at least something to go on in familiarity, and those that don't: more things to get folks into, thus more money. Holocron would be pretty cool. Are they a canon thing now though? They're fairly EU, but pretty ingrained into the EU in a way that might be harder to shake off them being a thing. If you get what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. GOH! Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 To be clear, I just think that the Snoke we see in TFA is not representative of what Snoke is in person. Maybe he's a shriveled near-comatose corpse or a brain in a jar; I do not necessarilly think he's a holocron.Other notes about TFA: I felt like it did very little to make it feel like Leia and Han had full lives in the 30 years between RotJ and TFA. It also seemed very weird that Solo had become a smuggler again.How in the hell could Rey and Finn see the destruction of the Hosnian system from an entirely different star system in real time? This is the exact same sort of nonsense dumbfuckery JJ Abrams pulled in Sta Trek when the destruction of Vulcan was apparent to everyone in the galaxy immediately. This is the thing that bugs me the most about TFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I also don't think a holocron is the most likely explanation, I just cast my vote for it because I think it is the coolest proposed explanation. As far as the destruction of the planet, I thought the exact same thing (thought it in Star Trek too). In both cases though since it's never made completely explicit what system they're in/planet they're on (or if it is I didn't notice) I just assumed they're actually on a moon of the planet being destroyed. That's the only way it makes any sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I was confused the whole time about where the fuck were they. Kind of have to ignore it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbassman39 Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I too did not really agree with Han Solo going back to smuggling. Although if you think about it, his life fell apart and he went back to doing what he knows best.I don't think its really believable that the Han Solo we left off at Return of the Jedi would go back to smuggling but he hit an all time low so maybe he does some stupid shit and gets himself in trouble again.Either way I felt that the action taking place in the freighter was exactly the kind of stuff I would like to see in a Han Solo spin off film, and I realized I probably don't want to see that movie anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Super low-level not-even-really-spoilers but I'm tagging it anyway for people who like to stay completely blind. That's a pretty weak argument. It took Luke the entire trilogy and training from Yoda himself to get good enough to beat Vader in a fight, Han had already been a badass smuggler for years before the first movie even started, and Anakin becoming Vader isn't even supposed to be seen as a positive thing in the first place. He's infinitely more badass as Vader, yes, but he only became Vader in the first place because he was a gullible idiot who then got made into Obi Wan's bitch. I don't even hate Rey or anything but let's face it, she got too good too quick for a kid who spent her entire life scavenging in a desert. She had some prior experience piloting ships so her being a good pilot didn't strike me as too odd, but she pulled the mind trick completely out of her ass and it still bugs me that she beat Kylo Ren, even if he was injured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Yeah the "being able to see the destruction from afar" was a pretty major beef. I think even the most non-sciencey person would know that lightsabers n hyperspace aside, that's not how it would work. I imagine from a cinematic sense it's cos they want you to know that the main characters know, but don't have Luke around to stumble, have a sit down n go "I felt a great disturbance in the force...". What they should have hard is something like Akbar declaring they've had an emergency broadcast from Republic capital that got cut off, can't get through since" or something. I'm willing to believe hyperspace communications over natural visible light travelling at FTL. As for going back to smuggling I'd say that's fine. It's what he did best, he's galaxy renowned for it (even if some finer details are lost in the telling). He's never been comfortable with the army life (it's why he left imperial army in first place...assuming that's still canon), so hanging around Republic as a politician or in resistance as a soldier wouldn't have been much in his line anyway, to then have his son turn to the dark side will have kinda fucked him up a bit. Luke went off living on his own, why can't Han fuck off too (and why does no one question Leia going to running the Resistance, they both clearly state to each other they ran off and threw themselves into what they did best) I wouldn't say she pulled the mind trick out her arse, she's clearly heard about the jedi n what they can do though more along the lines of like us reading harry potter. If you suddenly find out you're a wizard you're gonna give a shot at "accio phone" aren't you? She knew who Han was, had a rebel pilot doll and helmet. Also not sure if the various schools of "how the force works" is a EU or canon thing, but if the "living force" is a thing (and the force ghosts and anakin strongly imply it is the "correct" school of thought) then it's entirely possible in desperation The Forcetm is teaching her. But to explicitly state that in any of the films would expose the fact that The Force is Narrativium and bring the whole deck of cards down and fate goes out the window. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 If Rey is a Mary Sue, then so is Finn who, despite being a janitor who never fired a shot can operate the guns on everything from a tie-fighter to the Falcon and is proficient enough with a lightsaber to take on the Storm Trooper with the Unobtanium stick and hold ground against a more experienced Kylo Ren, knows the critical weakpoints of a planet sized weapon and what was he even doing on Jakku when he was meant to be mopping the Death Planet? As is Poe Darren who was able to fly a Tie-Fighter without ever having been inside one, and is "the best pilot in the galaxy™". So for that matter is BB-8 who is a special and unique droid. Annakin and Luke who are almost certainly related to Rey in some way were both incredible pilots, partly because of their force abilities. As Rey is a force user with experience piloting it's not surprising that she is able to fly all sorts of ships. Her life on Jakku stripping ships for parts would give her a good grounding in mechanical engineering. She uses a pole to fight on Jakku so is experienced with melee weapons. As for being a crack shot, she missed several times when first firing a pistol at a Stormtrooper. She just picked it up quickly. The force powers, as others have said are easily explained by legends of what the jedi could do and she had several cracks at it before getting it right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Also we know cos it's super canon that Jedi Mind Trick works on those weak of mind, and we're explicitily told all the stormtroopers for the First Order are brainwashed and programmed from birth. They're probably more susceptible to it than regular Empire stormtroopers. Luke picks up lightsaber control in a couple of minutes, going from being shot at by the remote (nice cameo) to deflecting bolts blind. So controlling a lightsaber isn't too hard (even Han could temporarily use one to cut open the tauntaun), and we're set up in her easily beating two guys that try to grab her and BB-8 that she's a proficient fighter with a melee weapon. Good fighter + Skwalker genes + fighting an opponent with a blaster to the side = hack job cosmetic surgery on Kylo Ren + not losing a limb in process. Bear in mind compared to Kylo Ren Vader had several decades of both force proficiency and direct lightsaber combat skills in many battles and against other force users (including a sith lord). Even Kylo would have lost against Vader. So yeah it's fair that it takes a couple years of training, and embracing the Dark Side, for Luke to finally beat Vader compared to Rey kicking Rens arse 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Heart Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Labelling Rey as a Mary Sue is over-the-top (and it was more of a short-hand, attention-grab, I feel), but that comparison with the original trilogy characters is also entirely disingenuous. The guy who originated the whole discussion even said that Rey being male probably would've annoyed him more; also, it's perfectly valid to hold the writing of a female protagonist up to the same standard as a male one. Thing is, it is entirely possible to have criticisms/contrary opinions about a film or character without actually hating or even disliking it, and nor should it become as personal as it seems to have elsewhere. The general point seems to be that there are no stakes or peril when your protagonist is capable of doing pretty much everything (why a lot of people tend to find Superman so boring). Going back to ANH, Luke wasn't a great shot and Han was a bumbling fool. The big "Force" moment for Luke is exactly that "the big moment". That said, however, I appreciate how TFA is actually kind of doing a different thing. Rey's arc is not exactly one of "growing skill" or wanting to become a Jedi like Luke, but one of accepting a larger part in things and fulfilling her potential. Psychological over physical/spiritual. She doesn't want that lightsaber and only takes it up to save her friend, even still trying to give it to Luke at the end. It seems to be the theme with a few of the main characters. Not even the antagonist is "complete" at this point and aspires to be like Vader (which Rey somewhat assists with...) What makes Rey "great" is when she decides to get involved in the grand scheme of things. It seems very deliberate that the Force is guiding her the whole time (which is where Dean is correct about Narrativium) and helping her become more than she is. Certain elements of Star Wars had gotten people so used to this idea of rigorous "Force training" (and midichlorians) rather than the more spiritual element of trusting and feeling the connection (back to what Dean says about "the living Force"), which TFA clearly emphasises. There is some sort of dichotomy between choice and fate going on in the background. Anyway, Rey is cool and I look forward to where they take the character. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Sorry I'm pleased with this one*: Poe leans over to Finn: So when you gonna make a move on Rey? Finn: Do Rey? Me? (could do with a slight tweak I think. I originally had part of the punchline in the opening, so tried to rework it but not as smooth reading now) *You can tell I'm pleased with a joke if it ends up here, FB n twitter. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanb Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 TIL Harrison Fords IRL son is called Ben. Oh n this joke shamelessly stolen from Reddit: The cast of Force Awakens have just finished their first reading Mark Hamill pulls JJ to the side and says "Can I have a word?". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Having read up on "Mary Sue" and gathered my thoughts and such... Annakin is much more a "Marty Sue" I mean the kid is about 8 when he pilots a naboo starfighter and destroys a droid ship from the inside. While elements of Rey are OP I don't think I ever felt that she was invincible at any point beyond the obvious plot armour. She still got caught, the fight with an injured Ben Solo was a narrow win and only because she had a force moment. A lot of the Falcon stuff mechanic was overturning Star Wars tropes about how it never jumps to hyperspace and all that jazz. It's a bit like the scene in Dr Who where River Song says that the TARDIS makes a whooshing noise cos the Doctor leaves the handbrake on, How can River jump in and pilot it better than a timelord? etc. Edited December 23, 2015 by Thursday Next 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yeah, the thing with Anakin in Episode I is what I keep coming back to. Anyone who says Anakin wasn't a Mary Sue (I don't feel like we need gendered terms here), or that Rey was more of one, needs to watch that movie again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Nobody needs to watch that movie again Ethan. Nobody. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 They do if they're trying to say Anakin isn't a Mary Sue. I think it's a fitting punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post deanb Posted December 23, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 Ethan treats his family to Phantom Menace viewing this Christmas. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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