Star Wars

[deanb]

Rebels S2 ends on a bit of a dark note.

[Mal]

I need a way to catch up with Rebels. Getting stuff spoiled isn't great but it comes with not having a way to watch it legitimately.

[deanb]

I didn't watch it legitimately.

[deanb]

 

Yeah, Wedge! Hondo in Rogue One would be pretty cool, even if it's a small cameo. Also bringing in the old battle droids again

 

 

Also folks not knowing Maul is alive n well are really missing out. Especially since here it seems he's joining with Ezra as a Grey Jedi*? I think we're getting a clearer sign that while there's definitely still "the dark side" and "the light", I think the Sith and Jedi are pretty much gone come Force Awakens and Rebels is setting that up for happening. The Bendu thing as a "centre of the force" (played by Tom Baker!!!) definitely seems to imply a strong push for a "middle path" instead of the stark black n whites of the later Jedi which pretty much led to their failure.

 

Also on the voice side I wasn't aware it's Sam Witwer voicing Maul (as well as Son and Palpatine). For those not familiar with the name he provided voice and body for this Star Wars fellow:

 

Also Freddie Prince Jr as Kanan.

 

*Which even that isn't the right term, he's not a "light sith" since he's rejected the Sith, but still enemies with the Jedi. "not-sith" in the same way Asoka is "not-jedi" (though EU would call her a grey jedi). Just watch the damn show okay.

 

edit: Now I'm looking at the voice cast, it's pretty damn great. Hey even James Earl Jones, Billy Dee Williams and Anthony Daniels are in there, alongside Sarah Michelle Geller, Brent Spinner, Clancy Brown, Gina Torres, etc etc 

http://gb.imdb.com/title/tt2930604/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

[TheMightyEthan]

I think Grey Jedi would be right.  Sith apprentices are often called Dark Jedi, so it makes sense that someone in the middle would be a Grey Jedi even if they're enemies with the actual Jedi Order.

[Mr. GOH!]

Grey Jedi is a stupid term and I reject it outright. By definition, if one has fallen to the Dark side, s/he is a Dark Jedi. If s/he is a Jedi and has not fallen, s/he is a Light Jedi or just Jedi. If s/he has not fallen and has rejected the Jedi Order, then s/he is simply not a Jedi. S/he may be a different kind of Force user, and can call him- or herself whatever s/he desires. I guess, but s/he isn't de facto a Grey Jedi.

[deanb]

As far as Rebels go you have:

Kanan - a Jedi

Ahsoka - an ex-jedi. (after she was falsely brought to trial for bombing the Jedi temple she wasn't too keen on them anymore). Or "part-timer" as Maul calls her.

Maul - an ex-Sith (after being left for being when sliced in two he wasn't too keen on the Sith anymore)

Vader - a Sith.

Inquisitors - Dark side users trained by Vader but not Sith (and at least one is ex-Jedi)

Ezra - Not really any of the above since he's post-Jedi Order, and while he is trained by a Jedi he's got a touch of Dark.

 

I know the dark-jedi/grey-jedi stuff is pretty non-canon but they definitely have examples of folks that'd fall under it.

 

Another thought is the "there is another" while I guess usually accepted to be Leia, isn't explicitly said outright and I guess likes of Rebels (given they've communed with Yoda a couple times) could lead it to imply Ezra.

[Mr. GOH!]

Maybe a grey Jedi would be a member of the Order who is falling to the Dark Side, I guess, but it makes no sense to call a non-Jedi a Jedi, even if they are ex-Jedi. 

[TheMightyEthan]

Maybe we need to have two terms, jedi with a lowercase j and Jedi with a capital J...

[Mr. GOH!]

Why? Jedi are members of the Jedi Order. If a Force-user is a member of a different group or not a member of the Jedi, why call them a jedi? It'd be like calling someone who was once a Christian a christian after they decided they didn't believe in the Bible.

[TheMightyEthan]

Because that's been the practice.

 

*Edit - I think it's more like continuing to call various groups Christians/Churches after they broke away from the Catholic Church, which used to just be The Church.

 

*Edit 2 - "Jedi" encompasses the larger idea of the force-wielding warrior monk in addition to the Jedi Order itself.

[Mr. GOH!]

Sure, there can be different sects of Jedi, but I would imagine they would all call themselves Jedi and not jedi. But would the characters in question? Doesn't seem like it.

 

I understand that, colloquially, "Jedi" might be used by laypeople to refer to any given Force user, but we are a sophisticated bunch of nerds and can dispense with inaccurate colloquialisms!

[CorgiShinobi]

There are actual definitions to Gray Jedi and Dark Jedi in the EU. Also, much like the Jedi, the Sith were once organized with all kinds of trials and etc.

 

Canonically, if you don't follow the ways of a Jedi or Sith, you're a Force user. There is a Dark Side, but if you're just an aggressive adversary, you can't be called a Sith because you're not adhering to the conduct of a Sith. Maul tried to emulate the Sith during The Clone Wars series, but Palpatine saw an end to that and put Maul in his place.

 

Ezra is the only one who is close to being a true Gray Jedi as he doesn't properly adhere to Jedi traditions and is dabbling in the Dark Side. If he becomes corrupted by the Dark Side and actually becomes the apprentice of Maul, he would be similar to a Dark Jedi. If not, then he'll be a true Grey Jedi if he keeps his Dark Side abilities.

 

EDIT: And Ethan is technically correct that Jedi is a catch-all title for the layman. Only a handful in the Star Wars timeline of Episode IV to Episode VII know what an actual Sith is and how it differs from a Jedi. Because of the Rule of Two, Jedi were the only public entities that were swinging lightsabers and doing "space magic."

Edited September 1, 2016 by Atomsk88

[deanb]

Then you've got the new guy in Rogue One who follows the teachings of the Jedi but can't be a Jedi as he isn't a force user.

 

(anyway historical it was the Jed'aii who actually followed both the light and dark in balance*, and the Sith were an actual species, but that's all "Legends" now so who knows).

 

*this is the bit the Jedi fucked up on. By purging the Dark it meant they could no longer truly recognise it.

[Thursday Next]

Jedi that are trying to be a bit dark to seem cool are technically Jedgy, or Jedgelords depending on their rank.

[deanb]

Thursday I feel you're not taking this seriously enough.

[TheMightyEthan]

[deanb]

No Ethan, only Sith deal in absolutes!

[CorgiShinobi]

Also, his post is above all of ours, so he has the high ground. Nothing beats the high ground.

[Mal]

God damn it you guys.

[deanb]

 

Turns out that if they do breakdowns for their own movies they put quite a lot of effort into it

I'm quite amazed at the amount of layers built into the wrecked Star Destroyer.

[TheMightyEthan]

That movie is an excellent example of combining practical and special effects in a way that makes them both more convincing than they would otherwise be.

[deanb]

 

Tom Baker is great.

 

It's interesting to see what bits of the EU are being pulled in to canon now Disney wiped the slate. In this case it confirms Ashla and Bogan, which were the two moons of Tython, where the Jed'aii came from (Bogan was always in darkness, Ashla always in light. Jed'aii, as I think I covered earlier, were actually totally into the balance of the light and dark sides of the force. If you strayed too far to one or the other you'd be sent to the opposite moon for meditation n such to bring yourself back to balance).

[Mal]

 

<Pleasurable> Oh...

[deanb]

Goddamit timezones.

 

But yeah guess it confirms the theory that it's her dad. Rogue One is like canon obviously, but it does introduce some weird elements in other established canon: e.g the Geonosans designed and mostly built the Death Star before being wiped out. I guess Mads could just be adding a few extra tweaks to it, n Rogue One is where it spends a minor stop between Geonosis and Alderaan.

 

Rogue One I reckon needs to end with this scene

(just the bit with the ships)