Star Wars

[deanb]

[deanb]

Carrie Fisher has died

 

A sad life at times, but a very accomplished woman otherwise. too young at 60.

[danielpholt]

For whatever reason, I always assumed she was older. A great loss to both Star Wars and the wider world.

 

 

 

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[CorgiShinobi]

I'm not sure where I would put this in comparison to the Force Awakens.

 

 

 

As I mentioned in the Good Movie thread, the beginning is rough. It actually starts strong with the introduction and how it skips convention of the rolling text. The introduction of the characters and even the Rebel Alliance is not ideal, but thankfully K2SO is there and when we're on Jedha with our entire cast is picks up considerably.

 

I have to argue that Director Krennic is a respectable antagonist, but the point being that he doesn't have the power he constantly desires. Krennic would have, as Galen Erso said, been able to finish the Death Star without Galen if Galen had not made himself essential. Krennic is an antagonist that, again, while not immensely powerful, he exhibits something rare within the Empire: Cleverness. It is so common in the Star Wars universe to see these Imperial Forces be oblivious aside from the Big Bads.

 

Also, he's called Director, but we're not really given a proper idea where he's placed in the hierarchy of the Imperial Forces. I've always been confused by the badges and here we have Krennic with the same amount of marks as Tarkin, but Tarkin has red on top and blue on the bottom. I believe Tarkin is suppose to have those yellow marks too. Given the time frame, I don't know when exactly he got them or if this is an error on the movie's part.

 

Saw Gerrera was barely a character in this film. Like, I get he's an old war dog basically, but all he amounts to is a crazy old man in this film. Oh, and I mentioned the CGI faces did not work for me in the movie thread. If you happen to watch it again, pay attention to the lower half of Tarkin's face. The movement is still jarring and not fully natural yet. It's close and I can tolerate Leia because it's such a short scene.

 

I agree with many points that have already been brought up in this thread. It is hard to invest yourself in these characters because you know that, unless this was a television series, they're all gonna die. Unfortunately it follows, and I wish I could find the trope name, but the "carry on" trope where our main cast begins sacrificing itself until they're met with the unavoidable.

 

I agree with Mal that the first Darth Vader bit is just... eh. Krennic goes to him to whine and Vader is used like a prop instead of a character. When we see him again, it's amazing. I don't just mean him slashing up troops, I even mean the Star Destroyer coming out of left field and screwing over the Rebel ships. I had assumed that hallway at first was part of the ship Leia was on, which I thought was stupid because then how can you blow off Leia's involvement. Instead it leads to the ship Leia is on and they get away!

 

Finally, didn't care for the "relationship" between Jyn and Cassian. Just... eh.

 

 

 

So in short, K2SO for Best Droid!

 

If I had to make a ranking: Empire, New Hope, Force Awakens, Rogue One, Jedi, Sith, Phantom, Clones

 

Maybe if I watch Rogue One once more, it could be in my Top 3. When I was watching the OT and Prequels this month on TV, I changed my stance on where Phantom and Clones belong in my ranking. Even with Jar Jar and Young Anakin, I much rather watch Darth Maul and Pod Racing over the garbage in Attack of the Clones. The sand is far too coarse and gets everywhere.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Atomsk88

[Mal]

I think I'm at the point of my fandom that I want to dress up as a Stormtrooper, Clone or something and be part of the 501st. Great excuse to cosplay. Now I just have to make a costume or three.

[deanb]

If you're not up for building (Check Replica Prop Forum/Punished Props/Evil Ted for some good places to start out) then I imagine there's "retired" 501st that'll have suits for sale. It's a pretty cool organisation, cool they've expanded beyond stormtroopers.

 

I've found out that Sky (satellite TV service in UK) has a specific Star Wars channel with 24/7 Star Wars on. I think it's a time limited thing though since there's also a Christmas channel too. So currently got New Hope on in the background.

 

Also found out my grandma is a big BB-8 fan, she likes the temprature senstive mug I got for xmas n has been bought one of those sphero RC toys too. She was disapointed BB-8 wasn't in Rogue One.

[Mr. GOH!]

Can someone explain why Darth Maul's resurrection was not completely stupid? 

[deanb]

Because it led to some great arcs in Clone Wars and Rebels?

[Mal]

Mid-season trailer. Spoilers obviously.

The connections between PT and OT is going to get intense. Rebels is hitting similar high notes that TCW did during its prime.

 

As for how I see it, Maul's survival allows for a Sith to basically keep themselves alive with pain and hatred, something that Anakin/Vader couldn't do (Vader needs his Bacta tanks, suit and perhaps even an initial boost from Padme's life force with Sidious' help) but some Sith in the Legends EU could. It discards the need to dig deep into the Old Republic to flesh out what a Sith and, with arcs involving Maul, what Dark Side user can do. It's all contained within the PT to OT time frame.

[TCP]

Remember everyone, Rebels also had a great mid-season trailer last year, but it was all shit from one or two episodes. Remember the shot of Ezra with the green Kylo-style lightsabre? And that's all it was in the show, Ezra picking it up and putting it down. 

[Mr. GOH!]

Seriously, I watched the first few episodes of the clone wars (and the execrable movie), and that bullshit turned me off the cartoons forever. In my headcanon, the only Clone Wars cartoon is the superlative Genndy Tartakovsky series of shorts. So fucking GOOD.

 

The upshot is that the longest kinja thread I've ever started began with me posting incredulity that Darth Maul is back (again!) and that these cartoons are not really canon. So many angry SW nerds, reminds me of high school.

 

But, really, Darth Maul was resurrected to sell toys and get people who were under ten when TPM came out to watch TCW. We all acknowledge this, right? Because Darth Maul was just another point of suckage in the tsunami of suckiness that was TPM.

[TCP]

The Clone Wars is literally the only other good Star Wars from the Lucas era besides A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and the non-Endor parts of Return of the Jedi.

[deanb]

Just to clarify:
Clone Wars = 2D animated series (and yeah it's good. It's no longer canon, though bits of it like Ventress are in The Clone Wars)
The Clone Wars = 3D animated series (which I also think is good, especially after it "grows the beard")

 

Anyway, Maul doesn't come into The Clone Wars until like the very end of S4, I'd figure anyone that was into TPM was already watching and being all "ooh Darth Maul gonna be in S5" wasn't going to have people suddenly dive in that weren't already. Especially as it requires knowledge of already existing arcs within such as the Mandalorian Civil War/Death Watch and the Night Sisters and their relationship with Sidious.

 

Mauls reintroduction in Rebels, along with the Bendu, is also somewhat important canon wise in establishing that Jedi and Sith aren't the only options. e.g the Bendu is neutral and Maul is no longer Sith (he dislikes it when anyone calls him Darth Maul for example). Kylo Ren isn't a Sith either. Though I feel we've had this convo before.

[Mal]

 In my headcanon, the only Clone Wars cartoon is the superlative Genndy Tartakovsky series of shorts. So fucking GOOD.

You believe in cultist legends. Fairy tales the Rebellion tell their children at night about the false feats of the traitorous Jedi Order. Time embellishes all war stories.

[Thursday Next]

lol, the Darth Maul who got chopped in half, and fell down a massive massive hole... is not dead? That is the most ridiculous bit of fan service since Pyramid Head started appearing in all the SH games for no damned reason.

[deanb]

Darth Vader who got all his limbs chopped off and then was burned in lava...is not dead.

 

Also Darth Sion of the KOTOR game who was killed many times and essentially decomposing...and yet for the most part was not dead.

 

Jedi Master Qui Gon Jon, who was stabbed through the chest by Darth Maul is also not dead.

Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi who was killed in a duel with Darth Vader is also not dead.

 

Jedi Master Yoda who died of ripe old age is also not dead.

 

Kylo Ren who took a normally fatal bowcaster bolt to the stomach also didn't die.

 

The only canonically killed sith were either decapitated or thrown into a reactor. It would make sense that darksiders are hard to kill given they feed on pain and hatred.

[TheMightyEthan]

Jedi Master Qui Gon Jon, who was stabbed through the chest by Darth Maul is also not dead.

 

Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi who was killed in a duel with Darth Vader is also not dead.

 

Jedi Master Yoda who died of ripe old age is also not dead.

Um, they are dead, at least in a bodily sense. Are you saying Darth Maul is a Force Ghost? Because my understanding was that he is still physically, bodily alive.

[Thursday Next]

Darth Vader was not immersed in lava and was picked up soon after suffering those wounds (which while not trivial were all to his extremities). Kylo Ren suffered in movie terms a flesh wound everyone knows that only storm troopers and rebel soldiers die from a single blaster shot. The Darth Sion stuff sounds almost as daft as Darth Maul, but at least he was all in one piece, is it even technically canon anymore?

 

Force ghosts are one thing it's as much being alive as Christian-Judeo mumbo jumbo, but being chopped in half losing kidneys, liver, and most of the intestinal system, a drop of seemingly hundreds of stories and then being fine is stretching it a bit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I *like* Star Wars, but the Maul stuff is dumb as hell and is clearly some fan service crap because kids think he is cool when he was a pretty boring rubbish villain.

[deanb]

Maul is physically bodily alive. I listed the light side guys as examples of the "near immortality" achieved through light side use of the force compared to the dark side.

 

I dunno, don't see it a huge leap that this guy can't survive:

 

If this guy can:

 

edit: @TN He's not really a boring rubbish villain. :/

[Thursday Next]

As stated above. Anakin doesn't lose any vital internal organs, just a few limbs and is seen to be rescued soon after suffering his wounds.

 

Maul is shown to be tumbling, cut in half above the waist, and falling in to a chasm that appears to be many hundreds of feet deep with no prospect of rescue.

 

I'm not gonna lose sleep over it, but it is clearly, flagrant fan service, there purely to sell toys and his recovery is so ridiculously crow-barred that it would strains credulity to breaking point.

 

And he is very boring, he's got nothing going on barring a fancy lightsaber and some cartwheels. 

[deanb]

1. lightsaber wounds are cauterising
2. We don't know that's where all his important organs are
3. At the very least Anakin is still on Mustafah for some hours, gently roasting, it's his pain that draws sidious to him anyway.

 

Toys wise they can still sell toys regardless of being in any modern Star Wars media. The Disney Infinity version is his Phantom Menace self, despite 13 years between Menance and Infinity but only 1 year between Mauls return in The Clone Wars and Infinity.

 

I'd say he has a chunk going for him given he survived for years powered by hatred of Obi Wan, managed to become the leader of Mandalore, and kill Obi Wans sort-of-love.

 

But yes, he does have a pretty fancy lightsaber though

[Mr. GOH!]

Darth Maul is a boring rubbish villain designed to sell toys. It's obvious on its face. Resurrecting him was just an example of the egregious bullshit fan service a lot of EU stuff indulged in. Don't even get me started about the many bullshit uses of Mandalorians in EU media, either. 

[CorgiShinobi]

He's a better villain in Clone Wars and Rebels; night-and-day compared to his near non-existent character in Phantom Menace.

 

One can try to refute this, but it would require one to have seen more episodes than can be counted on a single hand.

 

P.S. The Sith since the EU have thrived on insane plot armor to stay alive. There are many examples where just having a strong connection to the Force and hatred on someone or something as an anchor point keep them from dying.

 

It's representative of the duality of Jedi and Sith. The Sith seek immortality through power and can live physically through sacrifice of their very person, almost defeating the entire purpose. The Jedi do achieve immortality if they can achieve a higher understanding of the Force and themselves.

[Thursday Next]

He may well be a better villain in the EU. But we voted to leave it, so only the movies count.

[deanb]

Clone Wars and Rebels aren't EU though.