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Mister Jack
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I haven't seen any spoilers, but from people who have been spoiled they talk about how the ending is going to be divisive. I'm taking it with a grain of salt because most people haven't actually seen the film still. Not to mention there's always going to be the party poopers who doubt all the positive reviews and the butthurt DC fanboys who are envious.

 

If time travel is involved, I always expect things to either get messy for our characters or for things to not turn out peachy for someone in particular. The question you have to ask yourself is who do you think could suffer the most while the universe could go on. Like I can't see Thor suffering anymore after all the loss he has suffered and it's about time the Asgardians catch a break. Steve Rogers however, he's kinda that "soldier without a nation" character that could easily conclude once this monumental mission is completed. Not to say he has nothing to live for, but he has been in the fight for so long that it might be more like a deserved rest.

 

Which brings me to Tony Stark. You'll find a fair amount of people who suspect he'll die, what with being the longest running character in terms of the MCU. I suspect, or in actuality hope, Tony Stark retires. This would however open up the can of worms of who will replace him. In the comics, that hasn't worked in Marvel's favor with Riri Williams. Still, who's to say there has to be an Iron Man? Certainly, that idea alone would be divisive.

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My only real prediction is somewhat general:

 

Spoiler

I would expect that we'll largely end up with the characters that got dusted alive at the end, and the ones that survived Infinity War more likely to be dead. Not 1:1, but a rough correlation. Specifically Tony is gonna be dead by the end.

 

I'm hoping to go see it Friday afternoon, depends on how long my morning court hearing runs.

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Oops, didn't realize there was another page.

 

1 hour ago, Atomsk88 said:

I suspect, or in actuality hope, Tony Stark retires.

 

I'm not sure that would be final enough for RDJ.

 

Not that death is really all that final in comics anyway...

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My predictions:

 

Spoiler

Captain America ends up in an alternate timeline where the whole Captain America thing never existed so he can just live a somewhat normal life.

 

Iron Man "retires" to mentor new avengers, still keeps his armour and stuff, just not using it as much.

 

Hulk and Thor travel across the galaxy together just looking for a place to chill after everything's done. :P 

 

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Was listening to a "spoiler free" review and pretty sure it still spoiled something.

 

The reviewer talked about the Captain America character arc

concluding. Like, the only way I can take that is that something significant happens to where Captain America isn't really a thing anymore. That he either dies or something that prevents him from being a soldier and Avenger, like maybe timeline shenanigans.

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So I saw it last night (or more correctly; super early this morning). So yeah don't click on any of my spoiler things cos.

 

I guess generic review: reviews are pointless, you'll either see it or you won't. No one at this point is "on the fence" for seeing the Infinity War sequel.

 

SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

 

Spoiler

I guess for me the big thing is I'm fairly sure they have kind of fucked up a bit. Ancient One showing Hulk the time stream stuff and how displacing the stones breaks the time stream except...they totally ended up with Loki having the space stone. And I don't think that gets "fixed" just cos they picked it up earlier in time. Also I get the "timestream not quite being aligned" thing but Nebula totally killed her past self and that has to have some kind of repercussions.

 

I didn't feel so sad about Tony dieing, given it was pretty damn expected at this point he'd be leaving the MCU. 

 

Also someone pointed out that with Steve taking the stones back to their respective places means he has to go to Vormir....where Red Skull is. And it's not like there's taksie-baksies on the sacrifice front too. (Also he has to re-inject Jane with the reality stone).

 

It's a bit slow near the start, I got a bit antsy around the "peanut butter sandwich" scene but it quickly picked up again with Scott turning up and the planning of a time heist. Also rule of movie heists; if they show you the plan it won't go to plan. I think they fell apart pretty well, especially with "HULK NOT LIKE STAIRS!". In fact I quite liked all of them kind of seeing their past selves. Stand out being "I could do this all day"..."sigh...I know".

 

Obviously full of pretty damn epic moments, best of which for me I think is Cap getting Mjolnir. Even Thor was hype for that. Almost felt Cap was gonna get a fair way to winning there, he was proper wailing on Thanos. Was bummed when Captain Marvel showed up near the end of the battle Okoye wasn't "why was she up in space all this time?".

 

 

I think this film introduces a bit of an "in" for mutants too; Rocket points out with the "snap" Earth was the centre for a huge cosmic energy wave thing. By the end of End game it's had the same blast from Thanos, Hulk and Iron Man. That's a lot of cosmic energy shit...could maybe "mutate" people. Maybe expose hidden powers a la mind stone use on Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver (both mutants in the comics).

 

Also for Rocket I believe at this point Hawkeye/Ronin is currently the only person to dispute his Raccoon-hood.

 

 

edit: Also I memed. It kinda popped in my head on the walk home. Probably only seems funny at 4am.

 

Spoiler

2zfr9e.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, TheMightyEthan said:

Re: Iron Man

 

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My thing with Tony "retiring" is that he's "retired" after every single movie he's been in since like IM3, so that doesn't actually change us from the status quo.

 

 

Yeah, you make a good point. My only reservation (though reality is often disappointing) was how it would affect Pepper Potts. She can never catch a break, though it's part of their dynamic. Much like...

Tony would always get involved somehow if he was alive. Spider-Man: Homecoming alone justifies that observation.

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Okay, here's my post-Captain Marvel and post-endgame ranking of the MCU:

 

Elite Tier:

GotG

Ragnarok

Spider-Man

Endgame

Black Panther

Winter Soldier

Civil War

 

Good fun tier:

Iron Man 1

Avengers

Captain America

Infinity War

Ant-Man and the Wasp

Captain Marvel

 

Meh Tier:

Doctor Strange

GotG Vol II

Iron Man 3

Ant-Man

Age of Ultron

 

Garbage Tier:

Iron Man 2

Hulk

Thor

Thor: the Dark World

 

Caught Endgame this morning and I liked it way more than Infinity War. It is a very fitting end to the 22-movie Infinity Saga. The theater was packed for my 9:00 a.m. showing, a mix of kids, adults, and adults who clearly grew up with the MCU. The movie is very, very much for the fans and it delivers.

 

Spoiler

Just gonna bullet point my likes, dislikes, and observations.

 

Liked:

Wrapping up Natasha's, Tony's, and Cap's stories. I thought all three met fitting ends.

 

It was sad to see Natasha sacrifice herself for the Soul Stone, but she had already become who she needed to and found the family she had been looking for. In many ways, Clint's family is also her family, so of course she would sacrifice herself so he could be with them as husband and father.

 

Tony's end was sadder, as he only had five years with pepper and fewer with his daughter, whom he will never see grow up. In a sense, though, Tony has been living on borrowed time ever since he first built the arc reactor to keep the shrapnel in his chest at bay. He was willing to sacrifice himself in the first Avengers movie, so I never had any doubt he would do it again even though he has a family. Potts has always been a good foil for him, and of course she understood what Tony would do to save others despite his seemingly selfish attitude. It's also fitting that he is one of three beings to have ever used all the Infinity Stones.

 

Cap's ending was really the only way it could have ended. I'm glad he got to live out his life with Peggy. I also thought it was interesting he gave Sam rather than Bucky the shield, but I'm down.

 

I loved Professor Hulk. It was great to see Banner grow into a still-kinda-nebbishy but ultimately secure in himself character, even if it did happen off screen. He was finally given a lot to do besides smashing things or cowering in the corner, which was nice.

 

I was surprised Nebula was given such a large role, but Karen Gillan knocked it out of the park. She developed Nebula from a sort of one-dimensional evil cyborg villain into a conflicted and rage-filled tragic character who finally comes to terms with the cause of her anger. Out of all the characters, she was given the best arc through the two films! Killing her past self finally cemented her role as a real superhero. 

 

Fat Thor being played as an Asgardian Lebowski was funny, and I appreciate the return of Miek and Korg. I feel like out of all the OG Avengers, Thor's story is not yet over. I hope he's in GotG 3, or there's another Thor movie. 

 

I liked the overall conceit of the Time Heist as a tour back through the MCU movies. Highlights were Rhodey and Nebula watching Quill look like an idiot singing and dancing on Morag from the GotG title sequence without the accompanying music "Come and Get Your Love" (since it was in his headphones). The Ancient One dispatching of Hulk with a single punch was pretty great, too. 

 

The movie also had a lot more humor than IW, which I (and the audience in my theater) really enjoyed. 

 

Overall, I liked that it was a more character-focused movie than IW. It definitely feels of a piece with IW - watching them back-to-back would work pretty well, I think. I'd even wager that at one point during writing the scripts (or maybe even editing) the early Thanos-decapitation and prior scenes may have been in IW with the time jump happening between the two.

 

I like that Gamora has been effectively reset to the point in time just after she betrayed Thanos in GotG but Nebula is the modern Nebula who has grown and changed. 

 

Cap getting Mjolnir? *chef fingers kiss* Cap and Thor squabbling for just a second during the final battle about who gets Stormbreaker and who gets Mjolnir? *double chef fingers kiss*

 

Things I didn't like:

 

Why do so many MCU movies end with a big battle in which two CGI sides run at each other and chaos ensues? I liked a lot of the moments in the final battle, particularly when anyone fought Thanos, but the overarching battle was muddy and made little sense, which was disappointing after the relatively understandable, if a bit cliched, IW final battle. 

 

I can't quite put my finger on why, but that the final battle was against a 2014 Thanos made it feel a little unsatisfying and hollow. This isn't the same guy who overcame our heroes on Knowhere, Titan, and in Wakanda; it wasn't the Thanos who sacrificed Gamora to the Soul Stone; it wasn't the Thanos who had actually collected the soul stones. The only character development this Thanos has had is in the post-credits scene to the first Avengers movie. It is interesting and good that the movie made avenging the world on the 2018 Thanos feel empty and a little pointless, but I wish the final battle had different character stakes than folks like Wanda beating up on a  baddie for things the baddie didn't do. I also didn't like that Thanos's lesson from his other self's failure is to kill everyone and start over; that's what the goddamned Dark Elves wanted in Thor 2 and the MCU should not recycle the ambitions of its villains from one of its worst movies.

 

I get why she was largely absent, but I could have stood to see more Captain Marvel or a better explanation of what she was doing for 95% of the movie. She has a lot of growing to do as a character, but I am excited to see it. I also like that she could go toe-to-toe with Thanos until getting sucker-blasted by the power stone. 

 

I found the scenes about what happened right after Avengers 2012, with Robert Redford confronting them in Stark Tower, to be a little awkward. It felt like retcon to plug some plot holes in the early MCU rather than a fun-to-watch heist plan. Also, why did Hulk not change back into Banner? I don't remember, but wasn't he back to being Banner in the shawarma post-credits scene in Avengers?

 

I didn't like that the Black Order were just disposable pawns this time around. 

 

I didn't like that Okoye was so under-used or that there was no explanation as to what was happening in Wakanda.

 

Observations and Questions:

I may need to check for myself, but it seems like a lot of Natasha's final dialogue with Clint mirrored dialogue of Gamora's in IW, which is interesting. They were not only both Soul Stone sacrifices, but people who were ripped from their parents and raised to be killers for evil people. I wonder if Gamora would have sacrificed herself for the Soul Stone in a similar situation. 

 

The pop culture callouts were thick; do you guys think Tony calling Rocket "Ratchet" was a Racthet and Clank reference or a reference to the slang term 'ratchet'? It was odd to me that Rhodey did so much of the overt movie references, but Cheadle made it seem natural.

 

I wonder how they'll get Vision back for the short series on Disney+. Will it be set pre-IW?

 

So I guess Ned was dusted along with Peter; what about the rest of the characters in Far From Home? Or do folks think it will take place before IW?

 

What happened to the Mjolnir that went back in time? Did Cap return it to Asgard, as I assume?

 

Where did Gamora go?

 

Who runs the Avengers now? Hulk? Rhodey?

 

What MCY characters could actually wield the Infinity Guantlet without harm? Using it once really hurt the nigh-indestructable Hulk and using it twice really messed up Thanos. Could a Thor in his prime do it? Captain Marvel? Wanda? Quill? 

 

Finally, things the audience in my theater reacted to strongly, in order from quietest to loudest reaction:

Korg and Miek back on screen;

the pop-culture references, particularly to back to the future;

Clint's family getting dusted;

Tony saying "shit" to his daughter;

Nebula shooting Nebula;

Natasha sacrificing herself;

Thanos capturing 2023 Nebula in 2014;

Captain Marvel showing up the first time;

The reverse-snap by Hulk; 

Fat Thor appearing on screen;

Thor Killing Thanos in 2018;

Thanos blowing up Avengers HQ;

Tony's snap;

Cap picking up Mjolnir;

Cap saying "Avengers: Assemble!";

Black Panther grabbing the gauntlet and running with it;

the MCU female heroes playing football with the gauntlet (lots of shouts about how women get things done);

Everyone un-dusted appearing through the sling-ring portals;

the Wakandans coming through the sling-ring portals (including audience chants of the Wakandan war cry);

Spider-Man coming through the sling-ring portal ;

Thanos getting dusted (thunderous applause).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will undoubtedly have more thoughts after I it again in a few days with some friends.

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@Mr. GOH!

 

Spoiler

Much more than 5 years with Potts. It's 5 years since IW, and since she was preggers in IW their daughter is about 5-ish.

 

As for scenes shared between the two originally Endgame was meant to start with the Snap. They'd filmed back-to-back (I know for a fact the Asgard stuff in Endgame was filmed ~3 years ago cos it was filmed just down the road from me) so plenty wiggle room on figuring what goes in where. I'd wager the opening was done as a later addition allowing them to better bridge the films and sort of get you back into the "mood" you'd had on the initial dusting.

 

I kinda liked the fight against this Thanos. Sure from his perspective none of the emotion is there but from everyone elses they're super pissed with Thanos regardless of time period. And all the one-on-one stuff as you said is pretty damn epic. And it was IW that was the Thanos film, this one was about the Avengers, especially team-OG. Same with me being fine on the Black Order being a bit less imposing (also in IW most of them are taking on only a couple at a time. It seems up against an army of Avengers etc they struggle a bit.

 

Never felt the time-heist stuff was plugging plotholes. We already knew that Hydra was a thing within Shield and that between Assemble and Ultron that Hydra gets the staff. If anything it was nice to see a lot of these characters back. Nothing wrong with a little dash of Redford to your film.

 

As for Banner/Hulk I'm sure at this point it's still a bit of a harder shift back into Banner so makes sense he's still "pumped" from the fight. There's no "lullaby" at the point of Assemble. 

 

WandaVision likely pre-IW (like maybe between Civil War and IW). Though it's one of those things that would have made more sense to release before IW if it's the case so you'd have had more emotional umph to their final sacrifice.

 

I'm unsure on Far From Home cos trailer implies it's the first time Fury n Spider-man meet but they totally meet at the funeral. Unless it's one of those misdirect things they like to throw into the trailers. (trailer for EG for example has Cap tightening the straps on his shield...in the film at that point the shield is totally fucked). But would make sense to set it after EG. Otherwise you'd have three non-Avenger films in a row that are set in the "past".

 

Cap had Mjolnir on the little time travel platform before he went back for his final trip so I'd guess he got it back to Thor. The real question is how he took the soulstone back cos that place has an interesting red dude on the mountain he has some history with.

 

Running Avengers I'd guess is Rhodes, he was shown doing much of that anyway in IW (when Cap and co turn up). Being the field leader I'd guess is gonna be Falcon (Captain Falcon to his friends), since he's now kind of the officially sanctioned next-Cap America. Probably still trust issues for Bucky, Spider-man too young, Ant Man too reckless, Black Panther too king, etc. So yeah actually while they have gained a few next members lately pretty much all but Hulk of the OG team are either dead, old or in space.

 

As for wielding the gauntlet I'd say Captain Marvel easy, same with Thor. Really only thing stopping Thor here was his emotional state, no one really disputed his actual strength/physical ability to wield it. His dad clearly thought he was able to too so Thor should be fine too. As for the pure-blooded humans I'd say Strange is the only one I'd think could wield it. Officially by comic book lore there's not much issue anyone using it, even Nebula famously had it for a while. Seen a few folks questioning the rules, but in this the only two humans to directly handle a stone were Hulk, whose shown later to be able to (at great cost) have a whole gauntlet, and Hawkeye who kinda 'owned' the Soul stone. I'd imagine others might struggle to hold it. Quill I think can't hold any stone now since Ego is gone (it's cited that his connection to Ego is what let him hold the power stone for even a few seconds). Wanda maybe could use the gauntlet, she's theoretically on-par with Captain Marvel given both are imbued with the power of a stone (though Marvel also has Kree blood in her).

 

 

Also every time the "American audiences whooping to the screen" seems like a silly media trope but sure enough you guys always referencing folks shouting at the screen n shit. 

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@deanb It depends on the movie and audience - different places have different expectations. I am scheduled to ser it again in an Alamo Drafthouse that has a strict quiet policy. This morning I saw it in a big chain cinema house known for younger and louder audiences for these sorts of movies. 

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Still processing what I saw and experienced. I don't necessarily want to go into a lot of detail.

 

Time travel stuff was mostly okay, though I think they cheated with Captain America. On one hand, he gets his own happy ending. On the other, the movie pulled off a Back to the Future stunt in which they clearly stated is bullshit. The Ancient One affirms what the Avengers' plan will actually do to time: split timelines. Of course, if they return the Infinity Stones to their proper place, then the branches are trimmed. So in the failed attempt to get the Tesseract, Loki frees himself and subverts the original flow of time. A branch has been created where an alternate Loki is doing who knows what.



 

Honestly, I love all the callbacks that came with the time travel. When Captain America gets in the elevator and you think there's going to be a similar fight, but instead he leans in and whispers, "Hail Hydra." Too much to type out.

 

I think Tony Stark's death was the most badass and respectful way he could have gone out. He also had a family, but Pepper assured him they would be okay. It's still getting to me emotionally and that's all the proof you need. Thor joining the Guardians of the Galaxy isn't unusual as some of the Avengers have mixed with them before. Heck, Thor jokes about "Asgardians of the Galaxy", but that's a recent comic series too.

 

I could discuss more, but my battery is dying and there's still so much to process. Definitely a Top 5 (or 3) Marvel film, hands down.

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@Mister Jack Alamo is once if those tastes that serves food and drinks during the movie so there are theater workers always in the theater. The no talking and no cell phone policy is very prominent, usually in the form of lots of warnings on screen before the film as well as a verbal warning from your server if you tell him or her it's your first visit to an Alamo. Google Alamo Drafthouse no talking videos and you'll see the sort of warnings they give the audience. 

 

To be fair,  the no talking,  no late arrivals,  no kids,  no cell phone policy is a huge draw to Alamo for many folks,  so the audience is generally aware and happy to comply. 

 

@Atomsk88

Spoiler

My take on Cap is that old cap is from a split timeline who jumped back to the primary timeline shortly before giving Sam the shield. 

 

Edited by Mr. GOH!
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10 hours ago, Mister Jack said:

No mid or post credits scene this time. You can leave when the movie is over.

 

But shouldn't! (IMO). The credits sequence, especially for the main cast, is really quite nice and tbh I think you'll probably want the sit down for a bit to kind of process rather than just pushing out the door in a hurry.

 

As for noise literally saw in in a Vue cinema with no problems. Mark Strong sternly warns you before the showing so you damn well do as he says. But even in cinemas without Mark Strong never really have any issues. Gonna be one of those "stereotypes based on reality" type things. Laughing is about the only major noise you're gonna get, and certainly no whooping and hollering. It's not a participation event.

 

My theory is he just went back in time, put the stones back in their places and then took off the GPS and lived out the rest of his days with Peggy as-is. He's 90 and looks it. We know Peggy married to a nameless guy, and from his perspective she only passed a while ago. Only fucker for him is he knew exactly the day she'd die, also spent decades with her while knowing in the back of his mind Bucky is out there killing Starks and not being able to do a thing about it. From her perspective she's part of a giant intelligence agency I'm sure she can sort stuff out to both keep him secret and sort out fake ID n what not.



Also for travelling back to the present as far as we'd seen throughout the film when coming back, even if you're a giant space ship, you appear on the platform so I don't think he'd popped back to that point by the bench but had casually walked over there a while back n sat waiting for Bucky to spot him.

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My thoughts

 

Spoiler

First, responses to what others have said:

 

Nebula killing herself, old Cap, Loki getting the tesseract: Yeah, the time travel in this movie is weird (but it would not be the first time a movie had time travel rules that didn't make sense). If it were just Nebula and Loki, (and Thanos's forces getting dusted, for that matter), it could be explained by the branching timelines, but old Cap doesn't really fit into that. I think it's just an inconsistency, and it can't really be retconned with Peggy's nameless husband either because young Cap was around her too much, but the husband was nowhere. I think if it's ever explained it'll be something like GOH's explanation.

 

On that note, I actually agree with most of what GOH said about the movie.

 

Cap wielding Mjolnir was great, Thor's reaction was even greater.

 

I've been thinking Far From Home probably takes place immediately before IW, like possibly the bus Peter's on at the beginning of IW is them returning from the field trip.

 

Regarding Mjolnir, I assume Cap returned it when he was returning the infinity stones. He'd have to, otherwise it would fuck up the timeline just as surely as keeping the stones would have.

 

I'm guessing the search for Gamora will feature heavily in GotG3.

 

Rhodey's gonna be the one running the Avengers. As Dean said, he's basically already doing it. I was a little confused though, because at one point Thanos grab's Stormbreaker when Thor's calling it, so does Stormbreaker not have the same limits on who can wield it?

 

Was it using the gauntlet twice that messed up Thanos, or was it the destruction of the stones? I had been assuming it was the latter. When Wanda destroyed the mind stone there was a decent blast, so I imagine destroying all 6 at once wouldn't be pleasant. If that's the case then Thanos could snap his fingers all damn day. And even the energy released when destroying them didn't seem to have hurt him as bad as just using them hurt Hulk.

 

As for who could use the gauntlet, I'd agree with Thor and Captain Marvel. Probably wouldn't be pleasant though.

 

I own thoughts (not many, you guys have covered pretty much everything):

 

I love the callback to the Winter Soldier elevator scene, and the way Cap defused it. I had noticed when they walked in to pick up the spear that it was all Hydra guys, so that was a good setup with a great payoff.

 

I also noticed an extremely small inconsistency with the Peggy/Cap scene at the end: even though it was supposed to be the 40's or 50's, the house had a modern composite roof with architectural style shingles (I only noticed because we recently got a new roof, and so were looking at all our options).

 

As far as American audiences being loud, it must be a regional thing. I have never been to a fancy theater, only big chain theaters, and I've never been in a movie where people were whooping and hollering and otherwise being loud. Very rarely there will be one person being kind of obnoxious, but I've never seen it like GOH's describing. The closest it's ever gotten was Black Panther, and when I saw that the theater was packed and there were maybe 5-6 people getting loud. I didn't begrudge them that in that movie though, because I know it had larger cultural import. Aside from that, the only time audiences really make noise is laughter, and it's got to be really fucking funny before people laugh loud enough for it to really be noticeable.

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Spoiler

I assume Stormbreaker does not have the same worthiness requirements as Mjolnir but perhaps wielders other than Thor can't benefit from all its powers. 

 

I believe everyone has said FFH begins minutes after Endgame ends.  I would not be surprised if it ignores the dusting or if all of his classmates were dusted as well. Not sure which is more likely. 

 

 

 

I dunno.  I've been to loud shows in several parts of the country.  The first loud theater I recall was for Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet in a small midwestern town. 

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