Penny Arcade

[TheMightyEthan]

I had to cancel my Infamous Second Son preorder due to Penny Arcade related bonus content.

Why? Because of the dickwolves brouhaha?

[Thursday Next]

That's one reason. The transgender stuff as well. I just find PA (well, Gabe really) a bit toxic and don't want to be associated with or support them in any way.

[Thursday Next]

I feel like I'm someone who's normally very sensitive to gender issues, but I can't think of a single time people have flipped out at PA over Gabe's comments that it hasn't seemed like an overreaction to me. The only thing that I really agree with is that it was a dick move to make the dickwolves merch as a response to people bothered by the comic. Everything else, including the initial reaction to the comic, just seemed overboard to me.

Yeah. It's not exactly the content of the cartoons that I find toxic. It's their response to any criticism. Rather than saying "Oh yes, I can see how that would be offensive." they immediately go on the attack. They are basically bullies, who use their internet fame to brow beat anyone who disagrees with them.

 

The reason things like dickwolves or that "CIS" thing blow out of proportion is because Gabe is a monumental prick.

 

I'm not asking for anyone else to follow in my footsteps, or starting a crusade or anything. Just saying that I'm slightly annoyed that I feel morally obliged to cancel a preorder for a game I definitely want.

[CorgiShinobi]

I don't really follow Penny Arcade outside of seeing what the comic is for Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Extra Credits is on PATV, but Dan & Co. are they're own thing. I saw the pre-order bonus stuff for Infamous: Second Son yesterday, which isn't so exciting, but there could be so much worse. I don't understand how that would be supporting Penny Arcade though, especially when you have three other jackets. Sure the content is still there, but it's not actively going to PA. My assumption is that Sucker Punch, or whoever, already commissioned the artwork and people are already paid, thus support has ended.

[Faiblesse Des Sens]

That's one reason. The transgender stuff as well. I just find PA (well, Gabe really) a bit toxic and don't want to be associated with or support them in any way.

 

I find people who complain about every single thing PA does to be toxic. They're human. They make mistakes. They're open and honest about them.

[Alex Heat]

 

That's one reason. The transgender stuff as well. I just find PA (well, Gabe really) a bit toxic and don't want to be associated with or support them in any way.

 

I find people who complain about every single thing PA does to be toxic. They're human. They make mistakes. They're open and honest about them.

 

 

That about sums it up for me.  Though I couldn't really disagree with Gabe's notion that I would not exactly be very receptive of someone who tries to use the word 'cis' now (as I feel that much like the word 'feminism', it's been corrupted by the social justice crowd).

[toxicitizen]

I find people who complain about every single thing PA does to be toxic. They're human. They make mistakes. They're open and honest about them.

 

Mike does tend to come across as a huge dick at times, though. There's nothing really wrong with that, I guess. And I don't think it should necessarily reflect on the company as a whole. I don't remember ever having a problem with anything Jerry ever did.

 

The only things they've ever done that bugged me were their two kickstarters. The first one merely seemed unnecessary. Kinda weird but not a big deal. But it's hard to see the second one and its 10$ goal as anything other than them exploiting their fanbase for a cash grab.

 

"Hey, you've been asking us to bring back our old podcast for years. We're gonna do it! But first you have to give us money. Any amount will do. We just want money."

 

Kinda makes them seem like huge hypocrites when you take into account this old comic.

 

Edited September 10, 2013 by FLD

[Thursday Next]

 

That's one reason. The transgender stuff as well. I just find PA (well, Gabe really) a bit toxic and don't want to be associated with or support them in any way.

 

I find people who complain about every single thing PA does to be toxic. They're human. They make mistakes. They're open and honest about them.

 

 

I'm not sure if you're implying this, but I don't complain about every single thing they do. I don't think they are in the least bit "open and honest" about their mistakes. I think they immediately circle the wagons at the merest hint of criticism, label anyone who complains as a cry-baby, and set their pack of snarling internet dogs on them.

 

@Atomsk8: Yes they've been paid but if I pre-order something that has a Penny Arcade bonus attached to it, I am supporting that practice. It's like not buying fur. It's not going to put the skin back on the animal and revive it, but it might stop the practice over time.

 

Like I said, I'm not starting a crusade. I don't care if the content gets pulled or not and I will go out on day one and buy a copy of Second Son. I'm just not happy with impliedly supporting Penny Arcade by pre-ordering.

[Mister Jack]

I feel like the dickwolves thing got blown WAY out of proportion.  I personally found that particular comic pretty funny, and even if you didn't...so what?  They didn't draw an actual rape.  They didn't even refer to a person raping another person.  It was a person being raped by a wolf made out of dicks.  Unless you think dicks in general are offensive, in which case you shouldn't even be on Penny Arcade, then there's really nothing there that pertains to you or promotes "rape culture."  Even the follow-up strip seemed like a pretty tame response.  Social justice warriors on the internet will just grab onto any hanging threads they can get when they want to start a crusade (not talking about you, Thursday).  That said, they did end up going pretty far out of their way after the fact to rustle people's jimmies.  I won't pretend that it wasn't a dumb thing to do.  Even Gabe recently acknowledged that he should have just let it go.

 

On another note, fuck anybody who uses the phrase rape culture and actually means it.  It's a stupid phrase and you are doing more harm than good to your message, if you even have one, every time those two meaningless buzzwords fall out of your empty skull.

[TheMightyEthan]

While I agree with most of what you said, tape being seen as socially acceptable, or not a big deal, is a real problem in some parts of our collective culture, particularly the Greek system at certain universities. Rape culture is neither a meaningless term, not without merit.

[Mister Jack]

I'm not saying that rape isn't a problem, even in the US.  We all remember Steubenville, I'm sure.  However, rape culture is a blanket statement that was adopted to condemn America as a whole in the 1970s and should never be used in a serious discussion in this day and age.  It oversimplifies the matter in a way that makes people not even care when they hear it because it's frequently been used by histrionic people who blow things out of proportion.  If rape and people's response to it has become an issue somewhere, find a more articulate way to speak against it than by using bumper sticker slogans.  The general public does not listen to or care about those.  So yes, I'd still say rape culture as a phrase is meaningless at best and harmful at worst.  The more obnoxious you are in spreading your message, the more quickly it'll be ignored. 

 

To get back on the subject of Penny Arcade, they actually DID receive well-written, thoughtful responses from some people that made Gabe reconsider his actions.  If you actually take the time to put effort into the words you use, you can be a lot more persuasive (or at least respectable) than you would ever be by using arguments like "rape culture" or "socialism" or "gun grabber."

 

But now I'm veering off into a much bigger issue. 

[deanb]

The well written responses that got Gabe to reconsider would be:

-Wired for the Dickwolves thing (cos when it was bubbling small blogs and people for a few days after PAX it didn't matter, but Wired is big and they couldn't ignore it at that point).

-And for the cis/transgender stuff he changed his mind (well..more decided to be less of an ass about it, I think his point was he'd hold his original views but not tweet on them anymore) when one of their past transgendered employees basically emailed him and was like "heh, you're being hurtful with this".

Basically they will ignore you unless you're either bigger than they are, such as Wired, or they deal with you in more than an online fashion, such as past colleagues.

 

The problem the two create, Gabe especially, is that they are front persons for things much bigger than they are. "Penny Arcade" is a brand, and it expands to the hundred thousands at PAX,the charity Child's Play, their media works beneath them such as Penny Arcade Report (where Kuchera isn't exactly the most tactful either), and Extra Credits. There's quite a few peoples livelihoods that somewhat pivot on Jerry and Mike not fucking things up severely for the brand. In fact it would not surprise me if over time we'll see PAX pushed out from Penny Arcade. For one it's a huge event, now spread over to two continents, and for two the whole brand issue that Mike creates.

 

It's funny, because he's the one that created the "greater internet fuckwad theory", and yet it could be posited there's an upper limit where once the audience reaches a certain size the anonymous element no longer applies.

[Mister Jack]

To be fair, Gabe does seem better recently about starting shit with people, the transgender thing being an exception (although I have to admit I hate being called "a cis male," even if it's technically accurate).  This renewed dickwolves thing seems to be based on a misunderstanding because he didn't explain himself very well at PAX.  Now he has explained himself on the site proper, and everyone should just let the dickwolf thing die once and for all.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

So basically the theory no longer applies, Dean.

[deanb]

Well the theory applies, just it becomes:

Normal PErson + partial anonymity + HUGE audience = Total fuckwad.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

Only there is no anonymity. Which is kind of important. You know who he is. You can even meet the guy.

[TheMightyEthan]

How about AudienceSize*Anonymity = Fuckwad Coefficient.
 

although I have to admit I hate being called "a cis male," even if it's technically accurate

I don't have any issue with the term, though it does bother me when people use it as a justification for disregarding what you say.  Using a label as a reason to ignore someone is just bad in general though.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

What if the anonymity is zero?! That might make for even less of a fuckwad!

[TheMightyEthan]

How about BaseFuckwadity + AudienceSize*Anonymity = CurrentFuckwadity?

 

*Edit* - Or, even better, AudienceSize*(BaseFuckwadity + Anonymity) = Fuckwad Coefficient.  Anonymity would of course be expressed as a decimal, with 0.0 being no anonymity whatsoever and 1.0 being absolute, complete anonymity.  BaseFuckwadity is on a similar scale, with 0.0 being Mr. Rodgers and 1.0 being Rush Limbaugh.

Edited September 11, 2013 by TheMightyEthan

[Saturnine Tenshi]

I think that works. The "BaseFuckwadity" is important.

[deanb]

The "partial anonymity" would be covered by the fact that Mike's online persona is Gabe. He's Gabe in his comics, he's Gabe on his twitter, he's Gabe in his blog posts. We know his name, just as I know the real name of many of you guys. Doesn't remove all anonymity if you're still appearing under that online persona.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, I think of him as Gabe.  Every time someone calls him Mike I have to stop and go "wait a minute, which one is that?"

[Mr. GOH!]

My feelings about Gabe/Mike's dickishness are that I think he falls somewhere on the autism spectrum and might not understand why or how his words hurt other people. He comes off as very focused on what he likes and not worldly at all. He just seems like someone who is out of his element when he discovers that what he does and says affects a lot of people. then again, maybe I'm just being condescending and should embrace the view that he's kind of an asshole.

 

Tycho gets no excuse; he's just an asshole, especially re: dickwolves issue.

[Saturnine Tenshi]

The "partial anonymity" would be covered by the fact that Mike's online persona is Gabe. He's Gabe in his comics, he's Gabe on his twitter, he's Gabe in his blog posts. We know his name, just as I know the real name of many of you guys. Doesn't remove all anonymity if you're still appearing under that online persona.

 

He's Mike Krahulik according to everyone's favorite encyclopedia. It doesn't really take any more digging than looking up what hot dogs are made of or who founded the Sasanian Empire.

[TheMightyEthan]

Sasanian Empire.

 

You just made that up.