The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[RockyRan]

I realize this just fine. What exactly were you expecting from a part of the game world that features relatively low elevation terrain? Would you be happy if the Imperial City was built on top of Mt. Everest and the only way to get to it you'd have to take a winding mountain passageway that'd take you ten minutes to scale or a half hour just to get around to the other side?

 

I already stated what I'd expect from a game world of open-ended fantasy WRPG. Please read my posts.

 

The Jerall Mountains is your "mountainous feature" that you're looking for. Good luck moving ten feet to the left. Let me know how that works out. I already know considering I've tried to scale the mountains numerous times from multiple entry points.

 

There's two problems with the Jerrall mountains, one being the fact that that area only constitutes about a fourth of the game world, and the other being that Bethesda's definition of "mountain" back in the day was taking the land vertices in the construction set and literally yanking them upward to ridiculous heights. That doesn't make for interesting geography.

 

http://www.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/images/slides3-H-lakeplain.jpg

 

That's geographically flat.

 

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/cb15f02534c89812c88620bfa71439dba9ce1011.jpg

 

Now, as intelligently as possible, explain to me how that is flat.

 

Again, taking things too literally. I've already explained why, you're just regurgitating your same point over again.

[AgamemnonV2]

Cool passive-aggressiveness, bro.

[RockyRan]

Cool inability to support your debate, bro.

[AgamemnonV2]

This coming from the person who made no attempt to actually refute my points and only said, "lololo, I made these points already" (even though you haven't).

 

EDIT: And I'll be the adult here (before you have a hissy fit like TheMightyEthan and you be as obtuse as possible just for the sake of being an ass) and say let's drop the issue if you're not interested in treating me like a human being.

Edited April 20, 2011 by AgamemnonV2

[McBeeferton]

 

I'm so confused.

[RockyRan]

This coming from the person who made no attempt to actually refute my points and only said, "lololo, I made these points already" (even though you haven't).

 

EDIT: And I'll be the adult here (before you have a hissy fit like TheMightyEthan and you be as obtuse as possible just for the sake of being an ass) and say let's drop the issue if you're not interested in treating me like a human being.

 

I'm not the one who literally pulled a "cool story bro". I'm sure you're far more interested in making a decent debate by doing that?

 

I HAVE made these points. Will you care to read them? I know you'll just repost "BUT I HASN'T SEEN THEM" so I'll repost them for your convenience.

 

I want geographically interesting areas, like for instance walking along a steep wall of rock and discovering a small cave that looks like it leads to an open area of some sort from where you're standing. So you go through the small cave and discover that it opens to a circular ravine with a bit of treasure on one side. That's the kind of thing I want to see in Skyrim. Am I so "free" that I can access said ravine from every direction? No, but by making the access to that particular "ravine" a little more restricted (only through that small cave) it allows for a far more interesting geography. And without that mountain with that huge wall of "restrictive" rock you can't have that ravine in the first place.

 

^That there is what I expect from the game's geography. Don't tell me I didn't discuss it.

 

You're taking it far too literally. You CAN draw a straight line from one destination to another with very minimal deviations. That's what I'm talking about. There are rolling hills and the occasional terrain elevation that is impassable head on, but move ten feet to the right and you can keep going in your merry way. I'm completely at a loss as to how you can't realize this.

 

That there was what I said in response to the first time you took "flat" too literally. Don't tell me I didn't talk about it.

 

Now, will you actually acknowledge my posts instead of cherrypicking and claiming I haven't said a thing?

[AgamemnonV2]

I'm not the one who literally pulled a "cool story bro". I'm sure you're far more interested in making a decent debate by doing that?

I'm sure you were interested in "decent debate" when you said I was "regurgitating" my points. You got aggressive, then I got aggressive. You're surprised I called you out on that or something?

 

I HAVE made these points. Will you care to read them? I know you'll just repost "BUT I HASN'T SEEN THEM" so I'll repost them for your convenience.

 

I want geographically interesting areas, like for instance walking along a steep wall of rock and discovering a small cave that looks like it leads to an open area of some sort from where you're standing. So you go through the small cave and discover that it opens to a circular ravine with a bit of treasure on one side. That's the kind of thing I want to see in Skyrim. Am I so "free" that I can access said ravine from every direction? No, but by making the access to that particular "ravine" a little more restricted (only through that small cave) it allows for a far more interesting geography. And without that mountain with that huge wall of "restrictive" rock you can't have that ravine in the first place.

 

^That there is what I expect from the game's geography. Don't tell me I didn't discuss it.

Would you like me to treat you like a child as well? Because I responded to this EXACT point. Cyrodiil is not a giant mountainous area. I said, "What did you expect?" Given your obtusiveness, your answer apparently is: "For them to change the lore of the area." I then point out areas EXACTLY like that and what do you say?

 

There's two problems with the Jerrall mountains, one being the fact that that area only constitutes about a fourth of the game world, and the other being that Bethesda's definition of "mountain" back in the day was taking the land vertices in the construction set and literally yanking them upward to ridiculous heights. That doesn't make for interesting geography.

Oh, God forbid they encompass the game in less than 75% of the game in snowy mountains instead of 25%, right?

 

And how am I supposed to take you seriously if you flat-out lie about the geography of Oblivion?

 

http://images.wikia.com/oblivion/images/0/06/Jerall_Mountains.jpg

 

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/18497-3-1216242363.jpg

 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j190/Carel_de_Winter/Jerall-Mountains.jpg

 

So here we have the terrain you WANT (down to a t, to your silly ravines that lead down to paths and caves), plus your lovely mountains. I'm starting to think that maybe you haven't played this game at all. If I was near my desktop I'd fire up Oblivion right now and take a slew of pictures to further prove you wrong on this one.

 

You're taking it far too literally. You CAN draw a straight line from one destination to another with very minimal deviations. That's what I'm talking about. There are rolling hills and the occasional terrain elevation that is impassable head on, but move ten feet to the right and you can keep going in your merry way. I'm completely at a loss as to how you can't realize this.

 

That there was what I said in response to the first time you took "flat" too literally. Don't tell me I didn't talk about it.

 

Now, will you actually acknowledge my posts instead of cherrypicking and claiming I haven't said a thing?

Uh, I did acknowledge your posts. The only one not acknowledging people's posts seems to be you.

 

http://board.pressxordie.com/topic/20-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/page__st__200__p__47671#entry47671

 

http://www.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/images/slides3-H-lakeplain.jpg

 

That's geographically flat.

 

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/cb15f02534c89812c88620bfa71439dba9ce1011.jpg

 

Now, as intelligently as possible, explain to me how that is flat.

And how did you answer this?

 

Again, taking things too literally. I've already explained why, you're just regurgitating your same point over again.

Ah, yes. How intelligently put. Bravo, good retort.

 

Cryodiil is about as flat as a pornstar. Is that a simple enough point for you to attempt to retort or are you going to dance around the issue again?

[RockyRan]

I'm sure you were interested in "decent debate" when you said I was "regurgitating" my points. You got aggressive, then I got aggressive. You're surprised I called you out on that or something?

 

For the record, you're the one who got aggressive in the first place. Read back the line of posts, after the second exchange you changed your tone for no reason.

 

Would you like me to treat you like a child as well? Because I responded to this EXACT point. Cyrodiil is not a giant mountainous area. I said, "What did you expect?" Given your obtusiveness, your answer apparently is: "For them to change the lore of the area." I then point out areas EXACTLY like that and what do you say?

 

I'm beginning to think either you like to think obtusely or you genuinely are. Did you not catch the part where I said FOR INSTANCE? In no way did I say I expected the entire game world like that. I can tell when people start putting words in my mouth they've stopped thinking rationally.

 

 

Oh, God forbid they encompass the game in less than 75% of the game in snowy mountains instead of 25%, right?

 

Once again, obtuse, exaggerated thinking. I never said I expected the entire game to have the exact geography of the Jerrall mountains.

 

And how am I supposed to take you seriously if you flat-out lie about the geography of Oblivion?

 

http://images.wikia.com/oblivion/images/0/06/Jerall_Mountains.jpg

 

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/18497-3-1216242363.jpg

 

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j190/Carel_de_Winter/Jerall-Mountains.jpg

 

So here we have the terrain you WANT (down to a t, to your silly ravines that lead down to paths and caves), plus your lovely mountains. I'm starting to think that maybe you haven't played this game at all. If I was near my desktop I'd fire up Oblivion right now and take a slew of pictures to further prove you wrong on this one.

 

Thank you for proving my point. Taking terrain vertices and yanking them up does not make for good mountains. And don't call my wants for a good geography "silly". The minute you start talking down on my opinions for no reason is the minute I start to think you're a flat out idiot.

 

Uh, I did acknowledge your posts. The only one not acknowledging people's posts seems to be you.

 

http://board.pressxordie.com/topic/20-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/page__st__200__p__47671#entry47671

 

http://www.geo.msu.edu/geogmich/images/slides3-H-lakeplain.jpg

 

That's geographically flat.

 

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/large/cb15f02534c89812c88620bfa71439dba9ce1011.jpg

 

Now, as intelligently as possible, explain to me how that is flat.

And how did you answer this?

 

Again, taking things too literally. I've already explained why, you're just regurgitating your same point over again.

Ah, yes. How intelligently put. Bravo, good retort.

 

It's not a "retort". I don't know how many times I have to repeat it to you. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A WORLD THAT'S LITERALLY FLAT. I. AM. NOT. TALKING. ABOUT. A. WORLD. THAT. IS. LITERALLY. FLAT.

 

Cryodiil is about as flat as a pornstar. Is that a simple enough point for you to attempt to retort or are you going to dance around the issue again?

 

You're acting like an idiot, straight up. I've said this several times, yet you continue to ignore it. I'm not talking about a literally flat world.

 

I have absolutely no idea why you have a fetish with defending the game's geography so as to call it not "flat". By "flatness" I'm talking about the ability to approach pretty much any area of interest, be it a cave, shrine, etc., from any possible direction. It's when everything is connected to itself that it makes for far a far less interesting world map. A good game world needs to be dynamic, and impassable sections and otherwise areas that aren't immediately obvious to traverse make for that dynamic factor. There wasn't really anything "dynamic" with Oblivion's world map but rather 1/4th of the map up top that was a fairly haphazard set of protruding ground vertices, and the rest of the world map consisting mostly of (RELATIVELY, before you get your goddamned knickers in a twist again) flat terrain. In those areas, if there were hills and ravines and any other type of geographical landscaping it was done that was so subtle that they practically weren't there.

[AgamemnonV2]

I give up. You want to rage about mountains in Oblivion then do it with someone else. I've thrown 300+ hours into that game and I'm officially done talking to a wall.

[HotChops]

 

I remember learning you could become a vampire and I set out to become one. After I became one I found out that it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be

 

Sounds like they nailed the vampire experience to me.

 

I think that most of this debate is kind of stupid. Like the Mass Effect thread, so much of this is based on speculation or semantics. God forbid you guys wait until you've actually played the completed game before you tear it a new asshole.

 

It's almost funny. When I first came to this forum, I was excited by how many Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls fans there were. But when I read most of the posts about those games, they're (imo) hypercritical.

 

I never thought Oblivion or Mass Effect 2 were perfect games, but for the most part I loved them. When it comes to their sequels, I try not to be too harsh on the developers because I at least understand the monumental undertaking it is to make one of those titles. It's not the work of one artist, but a major project consisting of many different viewpoints and approaches. The gameplay is constantly being pulled in different directions because developers have to appease the hardcore, but also welcome new players. Obviously, not everyone is going to be 100% happy.

 

Maybe I'm just a little bit of a fanboy, but I already know that ME3 and Skyrim will be my favorite games of the year, and quite possibly my favorite titles this generation.

Edited April 20, 2011 by HotChops

[RockyRan]

I give up. You want to rage about mountains in Oblivion then do it with someone else. I've thrown 300+ hours into that game and I'm officially done talking to a wall.

 

"Rage about mountains in Oblivion"...yeah, sure. Try distilling my argument down to something I'm not even implying. I'm sure that does wonders.

 

I like how not once did you ever acknowledge that I wasn't talking about a "flat world" in the literal sense. Above all, it looks to me you're a completely irrational fanboy of the game and entirely refuse to acknowledge anything that might even be slightly construed as a "criticism" at it. As if putting in a thousand hours into it makes the fact that you're completely deaf any less of a fact.

 

At this point I must remind you I loved Oblivion to bits (Oblivion haters be damned) and Skyrim is my single most anticipated game of this year. But forget it, you're convinced I'm bashing your precious and won't listen to reason. Or listen at all, really.

[AgamemnonV2]

"Rage about mountains in Oblivion"...yeah, sure. Try distilling my argument down to something I'm not even implying. I'm sure that does wonders.

 

I like how not once did you ever acknowledge that I wasn't talking about a "flat world" in the literal sense. Above all, it looks to me you're a completely irrational fanboy of the game and entirely refuse to acknowledge anything that might even be slightly construed as a "criticism" at it. As if putting in a thousand hours into it makes the fact that you're completely deaf any less of a fact.

 

At this point I must remind you I loved Oblivion to bits (Oblivion haters be damned) and Skyrim is my single most anticipated game of this year. But forget it, you're convinced I'm bashing your precious and won't listen to reason. Or listen at all, really.

http://agdom.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/rpgs-how-far-have-we-come/

 

Congrats on making an ass out of yourself. You're welcome to continue making an ass out of yourself on your own time.

 

Edit: Please, get all of your friends to downvote me if it makes you feel less of an ass.

Edited April 20, 2011 by AgamemnonV2

[RockyRan]

"Rage about mountains in Oblivion"...yeah, sure. Try distilling my argument down to something I'm not even implying. I'm sure that does wonders.

 

I like how not once did you ever acknowledge that I wasn't talking about a "flat world" in the literal sense. Above all, it looks to me you're a completely irrational fanboy of the game and entirely refuse to acknowledge anything that might even be slightly construed as a "criticism" at it. As if putting in a thousand hours into it makes the fact that you're completely deaf any less of a fact.

 

At this point I must remind you I loved Oblivion to bits (Oblivion haters be damned) and Skyrim is my single most anticipated game of this year. But forget it, you're convinced I'm bashing your precious and won't listen to reason. Or listen at all, really.

http://agdom.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/rpgs-how-far-have-we-come/

 

Congrats on making an ass out of yourself. You're welcome to continue making an ass out of yourself on your own time.

 

Edit: Please, get all of your friends to downvote me if it makes you feel less of an ass.

 

Yes, because if you're so incapable of making any sort of legitimate argument on a forum without being a dipshit, I TOTALLY want to waste my time reading your little blog outside the forum. Such a colossal idiocy.

 

But wait, dude, YOU'VE GOT A BLOG ENTRY. ABOUT RPG's. SHIT JUST GOT REAL WITH SUCH AN AMAZING AND OFFICIAL DISPLAY OF LITERARY KNOWLEDGE SURROUNDING RPGS THAT I CAN'T TAKE IT. OH SHIT HAVE I BEEN TOLD.

 

You're quite literally the absolute worst member on this board. Please do us a favor and leave, every other time you post on any thread you pick a fight with people for absolutely no reason.

 

I also find it cute you think I'm getting people to downvote you. Did it ever occur to you that people think you're a dumbass without me having to tell anybody anything? Because that's actually what's happening. But no man, you're so correct on everything. We're surely all ganging up on you with the POWER OF DOWNVOTES!

Edited April 20, 2011 by RockyRan

[TheMightyEthan]

Edit: Please, get all of your friends to downvote me if it makes you feel less of an ass.

You accused me of doing the same thing when we were arguing about Spore. However, in that discussion I never asked anyone to downvote you or upvote me, or did anything related to the discussion except what you can see in the thread itself. Likewise, to my knowledge, RockyRyan didn't "get" anyone to downvote you. People do it of their own accord.

 

*Edit* - Missed a page. Jeez Rocky, take a chill pill.

[AgamemnonV2]

Aww, poor baby is angry! Sorry kid, but you and two other friends does not constitute as "us" in TAY, especially not when you're the one who picked the fight.

 

Also, if you weren't raging so hard you'd read in that writeup how I heavily criticize Oblivion. You know, just refuting your completely wrong assumption that I'm a "fanboy" of the game (and I've done my fair share of further criticizing the company).

 

 

Edit: Please, get all of your friends to downvote me if it makes you feel less of an ass.

You accused me of doing the same thing when we were arguing about Spore. However, in that discussion I never asked anyone to downvote you or upvote me, or did anything related to the discussion except what you can see in the thread itself. Likewise, to my knowledge, RockyRyan didn't "get" anyone to downvote you. People do it of their own accord.

 

*Edit* - Missed a page. Jeez Rocky, take a chill pill.

Right, I'm sure it was just "other people" who downvoted me within three minutes of my post being up.

Edited April 20, 2011 by AgamemnonV2

[HotChops]

Right' date=' I'm sure it was just "other people" who downvoted me within three minutes of my post being up.[/quote']

 

I down-voted you, and no one asked me to do it.

 

I actually agree that Oblivion is not literally flat, but I down-voted you because of the negativity and venom that flows out of many of your posts.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You certainly have played your fair share of games and often support your views with evidence. The problem is the antagonistic nature of your posts. Perhaps it's just me, but your posts tend to be less of a contribution to a discussion and more of a "I'M RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS A MORON IF THEY DON'T FULLY AGREE WITH ME!" approach.

 

In this case, Rocky has contributed to the conflict, but he doesn't have a history of being involved in caustic arguments in multiple threads. You however, do. It's gotten bad enough that I've pretty much started ignoring you. You insulted me in the Mass Effect thread, and I just didn't even bother responding. When the discussion breaks down to the point that one party doesn't even want to continue, I think that's a sign that something is wrong.

 

I'm not prepared to ask that anyone leave, but I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your approach to your posts.

 

 

 

 

Now, in yet another (likely futile) attempt to swing this thread back to more productive and positive discussion, I'm calling attention to tomorrow's episode of GT.TV, which will feature Skyrim:

http://www.gametrailers.com/show/gametrailers-tv

[AgamemnonV2]

Right' date=' I'm sure it was just "other people" who downvoted me within three minutes of my post being up.[/quote']

 

I down-voted you, and no one asked me to do it.

 

I actually agree that Oblivion is not literally flat, but I down-voted you because of the negativity and venom that flows out of many of your posts.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. You certainly have played your fair share of games and often support your views with evidence. The problem is the antagonistic nature of your posts. Perhaps it's just me, but your posts tend to be less of a contribution to a discussion and more of a "I'M RIGHT AND EVERYONE ELSE IS A MORON IF THEY DON'T FULLY AGREE WITH ME!" approach.

 

In this case, Rocky has contributed to the conflict, but he doesn't have a history of being involved in caustic arguments in multiple threads. You however, do. It's gotten bad enough that I've pretty much started ignoring you. You insulted me in the Mass Effect thread, and I just didn't even bother responding. When the discussion breaks down to the point that one party doesn't even want to continue, I think that's a sign that something is wrong.

 

I'm not prepared to ask that anyone leave, but I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your approach to your posts.

 

 

 

 

Now, in yet another (likely futile) attempt to swing this thread back to more productive and positive discussion, I'm calling attention to tomorrow's episode of GT.TV, which will feature Skyrim:

http://www.gametrailers.com/show/gametrailers-tv

I haven't antagonized anyone. In fact, I've been antagonized and personally attacked TWICE so far by people you just described (one even a moderator): people who are so sure that they are right that they flaunt it and say, "Pshaw, I'm so right that I'm not even going to respond." So rather than being mature they trade that in for being vague and obtuse or just being down-right rude. I've done neither of those things. At least certainly not until I myself have been attacked. At which point all bets are off.

 

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you should fly into a fit of rage. I'm sorry you are incapable of responding to my posts without feeling emotionally angry. That's really not my problem, however.

Edited April 20, 2011 by AgamemnonV2

[TheMightyEthan]

Edit: Please, get all of your friends to downvote me if it makes you feel less of an ass.

You accused me of doing the same thing when we were arguing about Spore. However, in that discussion I never asked anyone to downvote you or upvote me, or did anything related to the discussion except what you can see in the thread itself. Likewise, to my knowledge, RockyRyan didn't "get" anyone to downvote you. People do it of their own accord.

 

*Edit* - Missed a page. Jeez Rocky, take a chill pill.

Right, I'm sure it was just "other people" who downvoted me within three minutes of my post being up.

That is, in fact, exactly what has happening. I will concede that people react negatively to your posts, as I myself did in the Spore thread (and as I already stated I regret the tone I took in that thread and I apologize for it). People are reacting negatively, and the responsibility for their own comments is on them, but it is in response to the nature of your posts. People disagree on this forum all the time, but the disagreements don't usually turn into flame-fests like the ones involving you tend to.

 

You say it's not your problem that people can't respond to you without becoming angry, but to some extent it is. Think about the fact that people react so negatively to your posts when they do not react as negatively to the posts of others, even others who disagree with them, then consider what might be drawing out that negativity.

[AgamemnonV2]

No, actually it's all on them. The lack of tone, inflection, and a face leads most people to assume I'm arrogant because all they have to look at is Rufus Sewell (who's well-known for playing arrogant roles) and my handle is Agamemnon (and everyone remembers that atrocious movie Troy well-enough). What people mistake for arrogance is just my lack of a personality in posts in an attempt to remain objective. Apparently when I ask for clarification people then misinterpret that as a challenge or something, even though I'm literally asking for someone to be clearer.

 

Please don't ever tell me it's my fault if someone insults me. That's on their hands, not mine.

[deanb]

Well I dunno for others but I have no effin clue who rufus sewell is nor have I seen tron. So that's not it.

[TheMightyEthan]

No, actually it's all on them. The lack of tone, inflection, and a face leads most people to assume I'm arrogant because all they have to look at is Rufus Sewell (who's well-known for playing arrogant roles) and my handle is Agamemnon (and everyone remembers that atrocious movie Troy well-enough). What people mistake for arrogance is just my lack of a personality in posts in an attempt to remain objective.

You're making quite a big assumption there. I agree that the responsibility for people's actions are on them, and I say so in my previous post, but it follows for that that the responsibility for your actions is on you. Yes, people should not react with such hostility, but similarly perhaps you should make an effort to change the behavior that is eliciting that hostility.

[Mr W Phallus]

Please don't ever tell me it's my fault if someone insults me. That's on their hands, not mine.

You cannot denounce responsibility for the things you say by blaming others people's reactions to them.

 

Now regardless of who was the first to get angry or insult the other person, you cannot deny that many of your comments were intended to exacerbate the situation. This comment for example:

 

Cool passive-aggressiveness, bro.

 

I'm don't want to take sides here and I'm not saying that RockyRan is faultless but if you're going to provoke people, don't try and place the blame completely on them.

[Kovach_]

So yeah, Skyrim. Long Blades & Enchant, amrite guys?

[McBeeferton]

If Skyrim has bow and arrows or cross bows, I'm going archer. Swords are too mainstream.

[Kovach_]

I used spears as my melee weapon in all of my archer builds in Morrowind. Tho i used 2h hammers for the most part <3 Angry battlemage with a hammer is a good battlemage.