TheMightyEthan Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Mr. GOH! would give any console-only game a 1/10. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm pretty sure this conversation about ratings has all happened before. What was the last bad game? Yeah, I think it was in the Remember Me thread. Perfect example of a game with low scores that turned out to be totally worthwhile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 ...on PS+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Which you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh I'd be the first to say this game totally rocks when it comes to PS+! Â In fact, i'd put a google alert for it! Â In all seriousness, i'd jump on this game later when it does come to PS+. And everyone on the internet will rejoice, too. Â We're just not there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'll make a call: we're looking at an average score of about 6.5 outta 10. Â Â As for the discussion at hand, if I had the time I would consider this a rental. If you were to wait for PS+, chances are you would probably have something else at the time to distract you. Of course, you could knock it out in a day or two so that's why you could get away with a solid rental now. Â The only thing that prevents myself from renting it is that I did bother to watch a bit of the game on YouTube. The best way to describe it is if somehow The Last of Us and Beyond Two Souls had a child. The game inherited The Last of Us' visuals and presentation, but unfortunately inherited Beyond's terrible-ass writing and its QTE use in place for the "cinematic" experience. Â Â Seriously, that final boss fight was boring and looked tedious rather than thrilling. Â 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015  for the "cinematic" experience. Needs to die in a fire if it sacrifices gameplay.  Too bad this game didn't turn out to be a PS4 exclusive Wolfenstein-like game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 My out of ten scale is:  1 Game is so broken it cannot actually be played. Nobody should ever play. 2 Game has a number of bugs that can easily prevent completion. Nobody should ever play. 3 Game is barely functional. Bugs cause serious gameplay issues. Nobody should ever play. 4 Game is functional but nothing is executed well. Hardcore fans of the subject matter (looking at StarWars fans) may start to jump on here and not hate it. 5 Passing grade. There is nothing actually wrong with the game, but there is nothing appealing. Something to pass the time when all other avenues for entertainment are gone. Bargain bin £5 purchase (for full priced console release). 6 Game does some stuff right, but is overall not great. Casual fans of the subject matter and/or genre will enjoy it, most people will find it tolerable but wouldn't choose to play it over something else in their collection. 7 Good example of its genre, most people would enjoy it unless they particularly dislike the genre. 8 Very good game all round. People who don't usually like the genre will find something to enjoy. Everyone else will really like it. High level of polish. 9 Best in class. Definitive for its genre, will turn haters into likers etc etc etc. 10 Definitive for the world of games, sets a new benchmark, hails a new genre coming to prominence. Gamers and non-gamers alike should experience it.   Based on the above, The Order looks like a 6/7. Which is how it is rating. Which means that my scale is objectively correct. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Yes TN, yes  Except for the use of the word "objective"  Just don't go there   Spoiler tagged cos it's a little off-topic:  In the last couple of years I've had a real turnaround in my opinions of things. I used to be quite elitist about most stuff. But now I'm of the 'it's just entertainment'. It's worth lowering your standards to anything – as long as it's not full-blown broken (eg 1-3, maybe 4/10) – because you probably will get some enjoyment out of it if your standards are low enough.  The only real exception is things which are problematic, in which case I refuse to watch them or will drop them. I think massive-production cinema is the worst for this. Hollywood cinema. Misogyny and poorly written female characters everywhere, propagating awful cultures in many ways. Same with some TV shows. No matter how low I'll drop my standards I'll still walk out on stuff which is "problematic".  However I will happily watch shitty movies (eg MST3K style) all night long, because there will be something to enjoy in them. Same goes for games! Unless the thing particularly rubs you the wrong way, re your personal preferences/tastes.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I assure you the "objective" bit was entirely facetious. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Needs to die in a fire if it sacrifices gameplay.  Too bad this game didn't turn out to be a PS4 exclusive Wolfenstein-like game. As much as I love me some cinematic games and I don't mind lesser gameplay when it's in service of a creative vision (e.g. Heavy Rain), it is infuriating how devs have been using "cinematic" as a bullshit excuse lately. It's getting kind of insulting, really. Ubisoft in particular have been quite bad in that regard. A lower framerate isn't cinematic, you fucking idiots. You chose to prioritize visuals over performance and now your game runs like fucking ass. Own up to it or shut the fuck up.  In the case of The Order, I vaguely remember the devs saying something along the lines of "We experimented with 24 fps" which, if true, holy shit. That's just plain retarded. It's stupid to the point where I'm not sure what's worse:  1) the possibility that they might have actually been retarded enough to at one point think it might be a good idea or 2) that they were lying for PR reasons or whatever, and somehow didn't realize how fucking stupid it would make them look.  My out of ten scale is:  1 Game is so broken it cannot actually be played. Nobody should ever play. 2 Game has a number of bugs that can easily prevent completion. Nobody should ever play. 3 Game is barely functional. Bugs cause serious gameplay issues. Nobody should ever play. 4 Game is functional but nothing is executed well. Hardcore fans of the subject matter (looking at StarWars fans) may start to jump on here and not hate it. 5 Passing grade. There is nothing actually wrong with the game, but there is nothing appealing. Something to pass the time when all other avenues for entertainment are gone. Bargain bin £5 purchase (for full priced console release). 6 Game does some stuff right, but is overall not great. Casual fans of the subject matter and/or genre will enjoy it, most people will find it tolerable but wouldn't choose to play it over something else in their collection. 7 Good example of its genre, most people would enjoy it unless they particularly dislike the genre. 8 Very good game all round. People who don't usually like the genre will find something to enjoy. Everyone else will really like it. High level of polish. 9 Best in class. Definitive for its genre, will turn haters into likers etc etc etc. 10 Definitive for the world of games, sets a new benchmark, hails a new genre coming to prominence. Gamers and non-gamers alike should experience it.   Based on the above, The Order looks like a 6/7. Which is how it is rating. Which means that my scale is objectively correct. That seems completely reasonable to me. At the very least, it's not vague at all. When you pick a number, it means something very specific. And worthwhile games aren't limited to the top 30% of the scale, either. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I really don't want to derail the topic but I wanted to comment on something:  Isn't it funny how the /10 scale begins as a functional assessment of how well the game works as software, but that by the latter half of the scale it becomes about game design and/or story? Obviously things that don't work should get the lowest score possible. But it's funny we don't give low scores to things which are mechanically totally sound and work perfectly start-to-finish, but are dull.  As it is: 1-4/10 = doesn't work 6-10/10 = is a really fun or rewarding game  It's basically two separate scales anyway? Maybe that's why the whole issue arose? Wouldn't it work better to go like Option A (functionality): 1-4/10 = doesn't work 6-10/10 = works well (few bugs/glitches etc.) Option B (gameplay): 1-4/10 = isn't fun/dull gameplay mechanics 6-10/10 = is very fun/ great gameplay mechanics Option C (art): 1-4/10 = awful/derivative artwork (narrative, visual design) 6-10/10 = fantastic/original artwork (narrative, visual design)  I guess if I ever started reviewing games again I'd try these three scales out as a combo?  TL;DR: the way scales seem to work now is that one scale functions as half about technical capability and half about quality of gameplay, and they seem irreconcilable on the one /10 scale. Surely there's a better way?  On-topic at last: I'm going to use this Very.com Groupon deal (£25 for £50 credit) to buy The Order physical, then trade it in for credit towards MGSV:TPP or something.  Oh yes.  The voucher deal is here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=995897&highlight=50+credit, UK users only  Edit: Caveat is that Very can sometimes apparently be a bit of a pain to deal with (they're a women's catalogue and pull you into a credit agreement for this sort of deal. You'll pay the full £50 then get £25 back or whatever). Edited February 23, 2015 by kenshi_ryden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I think "functional but dull" fairly well sums up the reactions to The Order that I've seen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Some people seem to absolutely love it, but this appears to be for the story/milieux.  A lot of people can't seem to get past the bog-standard, but shiny, gameplay. Which is totally fair enough. I'll enjoy it greatly at £25, then trade it in for roughly £30 credit towards The Phantom Pain. Basically I'll have £5 credit towards The Phantom Pain after enjoying The Order for free.  Cool.   This deal better work out  Edited February 23, 2015 by kenshi_ryden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) TL;DR: the way scales seem to work now is that one scale functions as half about technical capability and half about quality of gameplay, and they seem irreconcilable on the one /10 scale. Surely there's a better way? It makes for a weird scale but it can't be helped, that's just the nature of evaluating software. It's too complex as a product to judge it based solely on its quality as a piece of entertainment. You can still watch a shoddily-made movie but a fundamentally broken game can be an incredibly frustrating experience, regardless of how good it actually is as a game. Worst case scenario, it simply doesn't work properly or straight up refuses to launch. That definitely needs to factor into the score in some way. Â I guess one way to go about it could be to separate them and have two scores, perhaps each on a 5 points scale. One for the technical quality and the other for its quality as a game. But would that really make a difference? I mean, I'd expect people/metacritic would just add the two and consider it the overall score. Edited February 23, 2015 by FLD 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorgiShinobi Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I guess the merit to a 5 points scale (without a .5 decimal) is that it makes it more cut and dry. The game has to go through the basics of being a functional medium (1-2), then we go into the entertainment (3-5). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thursday Next Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 @Kenshi - While it wasn't intentional, I suppose that is how I rate games. Does it objectively work? If it works is it subjectively good? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Ok, so...I have the game. Â I beat it in two days at around 7-9 hours (could've been longer, I wasn't keeping track), and I got it for about $2.75 out of my own pocket. Â That being said, it's worth more than the two seventy-five I paid, but probably more like a $40 dollar game tops. Â I'd rate it around a 6.5-7, but only a 7 for SOME aspects of the game. Â Overall, I'd say it's worth a 6.5 without getting into any spoilers, but I will say this. Â It most definitely has potential. Â The game has done a lot of things right, but it also failed to impress me in many other aspects. Â The good news is that it did end on a cliffhanger, which could either take it in a good or a bad direction. Â I really hope Ready At Dawn decides to sequel this and learn from their mistakes. Â Not all the fans are right about what's wrong with the game, but many have good points and those points are voiced by several people with different subjective views about the game. Â Honestly, if they put out a sequel, and if it looked good and if they had heeded warnings and taken into consideration what they didn't do right with the first game, it could seriously blow it out of the water with a second release. Â I wanted to really love this game, but I just don't and that's kind of sad. Â I do, however, like a lot of things about it, and I am not going to trade it in. Â For now, I'm keeping it. Â I may pop it back in again just to play for the atmosphere (good lord, it is gorgeous), but for those who are pissing and moaning about it being too short and mediocre for a $60 price tag, just wait for it to go down in price--simple as that. Edited February 26, 2015 by Dee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyEthan Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 This'll be free on PS+ in... I'm gonna go with October. Â Maybe November. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Jack Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Â You know what? Â I've figured it out. Â This game is Sony's version of Ryse: Son of Rome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomTervo Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Sounds like a pretty solid analogy. Â Ta for the thoughts, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Holy shit, I'm watching the newest episode of Pre-Rec about The Order and they basically just spoiled what I assume is the core of the plot. And holy fucking christ, it's the stupidest goddamn bullshit I've ever heard. Is the game seriously about Dracula using the Wolf Man so that he can be Jack the Ripper?!   I mean, I... I don't even know what to say here. It just sounds so fucking stupid, like a premise someone would come up with as a joke. Yet somehow this got made as a AAA PS4 exclusive with a heavy focus on story and presentation??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Ugh. Â And I thought it was just some political intrigue and a bit of conspiracy. Â WTF mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 I did a search for both those things, because fuck spoilers, but nothing comes up that would back that up... Â They're never ever mentioned in the same article/page, in the way that would suggest that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxicitizen Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Google didn't bring up much but  the spoiler thread on NeoGAF does refer to Dracula and Jack the Ripper as being the same person.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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