Uncharted 4: A Thief's Thiefing Thief

[TheMightyEthan]

I had completely forgotten about how awesome that was in Conviction...

[toxicitizen]

FLD: she's apparently working on the cutting edge, hard-nut mathematics which will allow the game to have super mental graphics. Y'know she was a nuclear physicist by trade originally? Yeah I've seen two articles about her, with comment sections full of praise and admiration. IIRC they were on Gamasutra and Kotaku or something. These were either earlier this year or late 2013. I think she joined the team in 2013.

Yeah, looking her up it sounds like she developed some pretty insane new lighting stuff for Halo 4. Microsoft actually patented her work. I'd never heard about that nuclear physicist bit, though. I knew she was an incredibly smart woman but that's kinda surprising. Wonder what made her want to work in games.

 

This has been done already, again, by Splinter Cell Conviction! Though nobody is the bad guy necessarily.

 

 

In the co-op campaign, technically neither player is the 'bad guy'. But we play an American agent and a Russian agent. In the end, once they have taken out all the baddies and escaped on a cargo plane, each agents is ordered to neutralise the other...

 

The final co-op mission is the two players on the plane, beginning at opposite ends after being ordered via earpiece to kill the other. One-life deathmatch. Your commander tells you to do it and the camera just zooms out, GTAV style, straight into gameplay. "Go kill your buddy".

 

Totally awesome. My pal and I didn't expect it at all and that last battle was just full of screaming and frantic bumbling about trying to trap/shoot the other player. The plane was very large and had two stories, with interconnected vertical stairwells/gaps, with a million hiding places. I won by hiding around a corner until my pal ran past, then shooting him in the back. So dramatic. So symbolic. It didn't really work gameplay-wise, but was a fantastic send-off.

 

At the end of the day... The government is always the bad guy.

 

*Shakes fist*.

 

 

Something similar would be incredible in Uncharted. But yeah, probably unlikely.

Yeah, I'll gladly jump to Conviction's defense given the chance since I actually loved the game despite the direction it took the series into. But the coop seriously looked like the best part of the game. It really bummed me out back then to not have anyone to play it with.

[TheMightyEthan]

Coop was the best part of the game.  I liked Conviction singleplayer at release, but when I played it again prior to Blacklist I didn't like it nearly as much.  Blacklist was much much better.

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, Blacklist was a massive step back in the right direction. They kept what worked in Conviction and injected a healthy dose of Chaos Theory back in.

 

It's a bummer it didn't sell all that well. I really hope that didn't kill the series.

[TheMightyEthan]

Did it not sell well?  I thought it launched slow but then picked up once people realized it was good, like the TR reboot.

 

*Edit* - Apparently as of November 13, 2013 it had sold 2 million copies, but Ubisoft had banked on 5 million.  Sounds just like the TR reboot...

Edited December 10, 2014 by TheMightyEthan

[SomTervo]

It's a bummer it didn't sell all that well. I really hope that didn't kill the series.

Shit. I didn't know this.

 

I hope Ethan's right.

 

Anywho, back on track, eh.

 

As someone said on GAF, that Uncharted 4 gameplay reveal features some god-tier level design. Like, far better than Uncharted 2, which I already thought was sublime. The amount of verticality/capacity for choosing your own path... With the new gadgets, too.

 

Also, do you guys reckon they'll return to one island-like location, rather than being full-blown globetrotting? The teaser + this gameplay video suggests this. It would be a really nice throwback to UC1 imo.

Edited December 10, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, I don't think the numbers were terrible but it didn't meet their sales expectations. Because those are usually reasonable and realistic! http://www.gamespot.com/articles/splinter-cell-blacklist-underperforms-with-2-million-sold/1100-6416144/

 

2 million copies in the first 3 months = underperforming. Somehow.

 

edit: That's what I get for taking my sweet-ass time hitting that post button.

Edited December 10, 2014 by FLD

[TheMightyEthan]

I thought the level/encounter design in the demo looked way better than past Uncharted games.  I hope the whole game is like that.

[SomTervo]

Deffo. Amazing improvement

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, the demos for the series have never quite managed to wow me as much as that UC2 demo at E3 2009. When the building Drake was in started collapsing, with furniture sliding all over the place, and he bailed out the window at the last second. All in real-time. My jaw just dropped to the fucking floor, probably because of how massive of a step up it was from UC1.

 

At first I thought the UC4 demo was kind of underwhelming, until I realized that it wasn't a scripted set-piece. The guy playing clearly knew the level inside out but it was still just a plain old regular combat encounter. That's when I got really excited.

[TheMightyEthan]

2 million copies in the first 3 months = underperforming. Somehow.

Oh wow, I didn't actually look at the release date, so I was thinking that was a whole year, not just 3 months. Yeah, sounds EXACTLY like Tomb Raider.

[toxicitizen]

Yeah, the only major difference here is that Ubisoft don't have the excuse of being a Japanese company completely out of touch with: the west, the industry and reality in general.

[TheMightyEthan]

I really don't understand how giant companies that presumably do market research can make such huge, blindingly obvious mistakes.

 

"Conviction was generally not very well received, perhaps we should lower our expectations for the sales of the sequel, despite the fact that we're trying to fix the problems people had with it."

[toxicitizen]

You're assuming that these companies are aware that solutions exist that aren't "try throwing more money at it". I'm not convinced that they are.

 

"Conviction was generally not very well received, it probably wasn't AAA enough. Let's double the budget! That'll surely translate to more profits!"

 

Of course, bigger budgets means they need to sell even more ludicrous amounts to recoup their investment.

 

Then again, this being Ubisoft, they do have another approach to solving problems: "How can we turn this into an open-world collect-a-thon?? Those are all the rage these days!"

Edited December 10, 2014 by FLD

[SomTervo]

Ubisoft's normalization of that formula is making me anticipate games like Uncharted and MGS even more. Games where joining dots on a minimap isn't the objective for most of the experience.

 

Although AC Unity did a good job of moving past that. In side missions at least, if not in passive open world gameplay.

Edited December 11, 2014 by kenshi_ryden

[SomTervo]

Amazing load of information on this in this NeoGAF thread.
 
Highlights for me:
 
 
 

- Focusing on navigational freedom for this entry
- Showed multiple paths, one finding an extra cave, other bypassing a group of enemies
- Plenty of side stories if you're looking for them
- In the demo they showed Drake taking a more riskier climbing route, that almost makes him fall in the sea
- All paths have consequences, there's no "Golden path"

 
 

• Lots of talk from Druckman on the cost of adventuring on Drake's life, it will be a major focus of the story. Compares his addiction to treasure hunting to a drug addict.
• All the new items they added were chosen cause it can help keep the pacing and gives you a better sense of exploration and adventure. [And there's more than the grappling hook and Piton - KR]
• Tools will be used to enhance traversal and puzzle solving
• They said the large puzzle rooms from Uncharted 3 will still be there, they say U3 had the best puzzles of the series and they want to build on that.

I think this GIF sums it up nicely:

Edited January 7, 2015 by kenshi_ryden

[TheFlyingGerbil]

That sounds like everything I'd ask for. Only thing that would slightly worry me is multiple routes where you can miss stuff always bothers me and if there's crumbling ledges etc you may not be able to fully explore an area. I would be so annoyed if I ended up climbing into a group of enemies I hate fighting and missed out a cave to explore.

[SomTervo]

That would be irritating - but is predicated on your hating the combat with certain enemies if they design the combat well enough, you might be glad for the combat instances over cool caves, &c. Though understand the FOMO from missing good routes.

 

My concern is game length. Uncharted 2 was a perfect length, for me. Like 10-14 hours depending on how long you took. By 8-9 hours it felt like it was about to wrap up then BANG here are three/four more chapters with loads of added storytelling,level design, set pieces and some great fights.

 

Uncharted 3, by comparison, is actually tiny when you stand back and look at it. Each level was very vibrant and very high fidelity, super detailed. But the plot actually barely moves before it finishes and it doesn't have that 'oh man I forgot about that level!' effect you get from longer games like TLoU or UC2.

 

I'm worried that with bigger levels, multiple routes, and mad-good graphix, UC4 will be a really short game. UC gotta be a long adventure to work, imho.

Edited January 7, 2015 by kenshi_ryden

[TheMightyEthan]

I have 0 confidence in Naughty Dog's ability to design good combat encounters in an Uncharted game. 3 games in and they haven't succeeded yet.

 

Their design did work really well in TLoU though. Fit the theme better.

[Thursday Next]

The crushing sense of inevitability upon entering an open space with numerous chest high walls. *sigh*

[SomTervo]

I have 0 confidence in Naughty Dog's ability to design good combat encounters in an Uncharted game. 3 games in and they haven't succeeded yet.

 

Their design did work really well in TLoU though. Fit the theme better.

 

Uncharted 2 had some combat encounters which were borderline masterpieces - I still occasionally boot the game up today to play them. Eg the Tibetan villages, the Buddhist towers (the section leading up to the chopper/bridge collapse), the fight immediately after the train wreck in the blizzard, the more sandboxey bits in Shambala, all of the combat in the city... the Urban Warfare chapter which was demo'ed at E3 that year. Edit: Nepal, that's where it was. All of that chapter is amazing, especially the bits with wider areas and little buildings, with several waves of enemies and loads of weapons/gadgets.

 

I've no idea why people complain. Did anybody play it on Crushing? On that difficulty you constantly have to retreat, flank, play tactically and be really accurate to outwit the AI. It's amazing. Like TLoU, the gameplay doesn't really come into its own until the hard/hardest difficulties.

 

Uncharted 1 and 3 though, yeah, none of the encounters really did it for me in those. What was the point in improving fisticuffs in UC3 if you're going to make it impossible to get in a fistfight without being shot repeatedly?

Edited January 7, 2015 by kenshi_ryden

[Thursday Next]

I platinum UC's routinely. Crushing varies for me between being a fun challenge, and hair tearingly frustrating depending on whether enemies are standard (can be head shotted) or are ridiculous bullet sponges.

[SomTervo]

I platinum UC's routinely.

*Image of TN with a shotgun walking through a room blasting floating copies of UC1, 2, 3*

 

In UC1 and UC3 I found it exactly that - a mix between 'kinda fun' and 'the most irritating thing ever'. UC2 is the only one that hit the balance perfectly. I can't think of a single encounter in UC2 which is unfair on Crushing. If you're skilled enough and improvise well enough, you can manage the whole thing without a cheap death in sight.

Edited January 8, 2015 by kenshi_ryden

[Thursday Next]

Didn't meant that to sound as boastful as it did.

 

Actually, platinumed 1, 2 and golden abyss. Not sure why I didn't do 3. May have to go back to it.

 

Oh wait, now I know why, all the stupid MP trophies. Win x game mode 5-0. Yeah, no.

[TheFlyingGerbil]

How do you feel about boosting for multiplayer trophies? I think that's what it's called when a group of people organise paying together and take it in turns to win by the trophies rules. Guess the moment's passed for that game though unless you had friends that would be willing. I don't feel like it's cheating but I don't care enough about trophies to do it myself.