Political Stance

[TornadoCreator]

I was going to join in the other political discussions but I don't want to break the flow of already established threads with open-ended discussion; so here's a new thread.

 

What political stance do you take as a whole? Conservative, Liberal, Socialist, Libertarian, Nationalist, Environmentalist, Unionist, Secularist etc. and for what reasons.

 

Personally I lean slightly in favour liberal and environmental policies, but I'm a pretty die-hard socialist and secularist. My primary concerns naturally are healthcare, disability care, housing, and social issues. I'm also interested in privatisation, science funding, education, and the environment.

 

Obviously my politics are skewed somewhat by my situation. As a disabled adult that relies on free healthcare and disability benefits, these things matter most to me, but I held them in high regard even when I was abled bodied and working full time. Social issues I feel are massively important, currently gay discrimination is still an issue, drug prohibition needs massive reform, decentralisation of economic power should be a priority, and corporate tax reform is needed... obviously depending on where you live, these opinions will be wildly different I'm sure.

 

So, let's break one of the cardinal rules of the internet. Let's talk politics.

[Waldorf and Statler]

I lean conservative for economics reason, and I don't tend to care about anything else besides rights for everyone in general. I just have so much other shit going on that politics can't fit into my schedule. Also I've seen what politics and religion can do for friendships so I keep the fuck away.

[staySICK]

extreme left.

 

[Mister Jack]

I'm a dirty commie socialist liberal freedom hatin' terrorist. 

 

[TornadoCreator]

extreme left.

 

Can you elaborate somewhat, after all "extreme left" means very different things in different countries eg. in USA 'left-wing' is laughably centrist (seriously in Europe we see Republicans and Democrats as basically the same thing, you have Conservatives or more Conservatives... the only real difference seems to be that the Republicans are also racist, homophobic, sexist, hyper-religious fools and the Democrats are spineless lying bureaucracy spewing spin-doctors... yeah, I have little respect for USA politics). Also, what axis are you using, do you mean progressively left-wing or fiscally left-wing for example?

 

I'd love to hear more, so by all means everyone join in. There's no such thing as a wrong answer in politics, it's all just different points of view so don't be afraid to join in.

[deanb]

Yeah I'd say pointing out country is always a good idea on this, an American left is European right.

 

In case it's not been picked up by others already I'm pretty pro-welfare state, great to have the safety net there (as I made use of during my couple years mostly unemployed) without getting totally fucked over. Childhood kinda relied on NHS a bit, c-section birth, glasses as a teen and what not.

Helping each other is what I was taught was the right thing as a kid, but a lot of stuff seems to be focusing on "us vs them" and individual successes. I think most issues affecting many countries can be attributed to the lack of community, and wanting to help each other out. Lonely old people, unemployment, integration of immigrants etc. Stuff like Workfare could have been a prime opportunity to help build up community; have people spending some time with old folks, helping on community projects, etc instead they had contracts in place with likes of Poundland and Tesco to bypass paid workers.

 

On more UK-centric things I'm pro-EU to a degree, political union between nations (especially ours with millennia of conflict) is pretty much the way to go, and I'd like to think this will hold together well over the coming decades if not centuries. Helps provide some extra rights too, though of course not always wholly implemented on a per-nation level :/

 

I guess on a secular vs non-secular level I'm quite secular but acknowledge that we are officially a christian nation. As I've said a few times I think the same-sex marriage stuff really fucked up, and should have been an opportunity to secularise "marriage" as a whole. Move it to Civil Partnerships for all, and "marriage" just the optional decoration on top of the legal binding of two people. Kinda like a birth certificate is required by law, a christening is optional naming of the baby and what not.

[Mr. GOH!]

Social democrat, United States. Strong supporter of population-based democracy (rather than location based - the U.S. senate and congressional district systems are a horror show and fundamentally anti-democratic). I believe that there can never be such a thing as a free market outside of thought experiments. I am a capitalist, but I believe the people should have a strong voice in economic regulations, though I believe such regulations are best accomplished and evaluated through technocratic representatives rather than direct voting on a given policy.  I am a very strong civil libertarian when it comes to government encroachment on fundamental freedoms - assembly, speech, religion, and travel. I have a strong suspicious of powerful private entities, including corporations and the largest unions (though I believe in the fundamental right of workers to organize, even if it means the majority of the workers force unionization on the minority). 

[TornadoCreator]

Social democrat, United States. Strong supporter of population-based democracy (rather than location based - the U.S. senate and congressional district systems are a horror show and fundamentally anti-democratic). I believe that there can never be such a thing as a free market outside of thought experiments. I am a capitalist, but I believe the people should have a strong voice in economic regulations, though I believe such regulations are best accomplished and evaluated through technocratic representatives rather than direct voting on a given policy.  I am a very strong civil libertarian when it comes to government encroachment on fundamental freedoms - assembly, speech, religion, and travel. I have a strong suspicious of powerful private entities, including corporations and the largest unions (though I believe in the fundamental right of workers to organize, even if it means the majority of the workers force unionization on the minority). 

 

Seems like reasonable sensible positions for within USA, as much as it pains me, it's pretty much pointless being an American socialist. I'm an outright socialist, so much so that I consider my country far too capitalist and conservative. I believe in stateism, and the UK is moving away from that every year:

 

The NHS for example, it doesn't include opticians, dentists, or free prescriptions for those in full time work... well that's not Universal Healthcare is it? Are teeth and eyes no longer bodyparts? Is it not a health issue if there's a problem? Then there's hospitals, which now charge for phone, TV, and internet access in long stay wards. Only 10 years ago, these where all considered free comforts. Mental health suffers terribly when someone is trapped, injured or sick in a bed with no way to pass the time. Hospitals should not be taking advantage of fear and depression by charging premium rates to use phones or a TV, especially when they won't allow you to bring your own phone.

 

Fiscally I abhor privatisation. Selling off public property to private companies is just wrong. The postal service and national rail network are being ruined. On top of that commercial rail has no incentive to interlink the Northern cities, something vital for keeping the regions ecconomically viable. Instead they want to link everything to London as there's better profit margins. This however will cause hypercentralisation, overcrowding London and causing COL inflation, while draining jobs out of the North turning all the towns there into ghost towns. A highspeed network between Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and York would revitalise the cities and allow for massive regional growth, lowering unemployment and the tax burden, but it's not commercially lucritive so the private sector won't do it.

 

These are just two of the things that turn me away from capitalism here. The system doesn't do what's best for the people or the country, it causes companies to manipulate the system in the search for greater profit. Worst still, it's profit for profits sake, the company as an entity doesn't want profit for a reason; it doesn't intend to spend it to increase the quality of life for people individually or en mass. No, much like a child a company wants money because it's there, it wants a bigger profit because it just does... and that lack of reason, that lack of motive is exactly why I cannot trust capitalism. It's a system based on the unending greed of a faceless entity that not even the people controlling can stop. Think about it, if Microsofts CEO and directors stopped making money, the shareholders would fire them and hire more... you must make profit, it is all that matters, one of us, one of us, one of us. It's terrifyingly Orwellean and yet society as a whole just accepts it.

 

So yeah, that's my reasoning for my anti-capitalist stance.

[Mr. GOH!]

Capitalism does not have to mean laissez faire capitalism; I'm a fan of a mixed economy, with many fields left to private interests (mediated by state regulations) and other fields directed by the state (occasionally in partnership with private interests). It's just as ridiculous to let the state direct all areas of human endeavor as it is to dissolve the state and let private interests direct all human endeavor.

[TCP]

The older I get, the more conservative I get. Still mostly liberal on social issues though. 

[TheMightyEthan]

The older I get the more I'm like "fuck it, I just can't care anymore".  Though it's because I'm fed up with the people in office, and people in general, not because of any change in my actual ideology.

[Strangelove]

I hate orientals. That's about it in a nutshell.

[TornadoCreator]

The older I get, the more conservative I get. Still mostly liberal on social issues though. 

 

I hear that sentiment a lot, I always wondered if that meant conservative politics was more mature and I was too immature to see it, or is people lose their sense of idealism with age and my spirit was yet to be crushed...

 

...I've actually become more staunchly socialist with age though, so I'm clearly bucking the trend regardless.

[Mal]

I tend to think long term and be adaptive (In other words, I can do things that seems conservative or liberal or anything really...) but that flies in the face of most political and economic shenanigans and motivators. So I'm turning out like Ethan and just stopped caring because look at Sacramento and Washington... they're cesspools to say the least. To make it short, think of my take on things like Varys from A Song of Ice and Fire, minus the conspiracy and junk. I believe and do things that can be seen as good and bad (All depending on situation) but I do so because I think it will keep the world chugging along.

I hate orientals. That's about it in a nutshell.

[staySICK]

 

extreme left.

 

Can you elaborate somewhat, after all "extreme left" means very different things in different countries

 

 

 

okay, um: I'm extreme left of the American Democrats, but incredibly hampered by a feeling of fatigue and apathy with American politics anymore.  The biggest time I've gotten a sense of political belonging was when I attended an anarchists gathering  and sitting in on some of the workshops / discussions that were held and reading the literature.  But as time went on it seemed to me to declare yourself as anarchist / anarcho communist, whatevs becomes a Thing to the point I can sympathise with Laura Jean Grace's line of thinking with "I was a Teenage Anarchist." I still harbor a lot of the beliefs though.  I'm anti capitalist -- like Goh said about a mixed economy -- if you need socialist / communist practices to balance capitalism and prevent the massive inequalities we see today with unfettered capitalism, capitalism just does not work.  And that's ignoring the fact that capitalism is a tool of oppression that keeps us focused on providing ourselves with the necessities of life -- food, shelter, clothing and entraps us into wage slavery.  Capitalism is what leads to having more peopleless homes than homeless people.  

 

Democrats here in America like to say its "Liberals" who brought us things like the 8/40 work week, paid holidays, etc, but really it was the anarchists who DIED to give us that.  That's where my biggest focus is I think:  worker's rights.  I'm a member of a (unfortunately pretty weak) union, but I'm very much pro union -- anything to give us workers power to balance the corporations and the bosses so they don't trample all over us.  

 

I actually support gun rights as well.  Not to the extremes of some of the conservatives here, but in the context of our current political and social structure (where we have a corporatized State military) I think for the common citizen there should be a logical and reasonable point where "well regulated" intersects with "shall not be infringed" with the 2nd Amendment.  I'm perfectly okay with citizens owning AR-15s, they aren't much different from your typical semi auto hunting rifle except they are made up to look scarier / military.  

 

I'm pro choice, pro birth control pro healthcare pro marijuana pro education pro union pro guns pro inclusiveness pro womyn pro LGBT pro QUILTBAG pro fair trade anti death penalty anti war anti military anti religion anti corporatism anti neoliberalism anti facism anti nationalism 

 

 

...I dunno I have a hard time rounding up my political thoughts anymore.

 

oh yea, ACAB.

 

Edited July 8, 2014 by staySICK

[TornadoCreator]

Seems we have very similar ideals there staySICK. I find I temper my opinions somewhat though the lenses of reasonable change and realistic public sway. While I agree capitalism as a whole doesn't work, the public won't be swayed of this and even if they where we can't just end capitalism. We need reasonable transitioning and small issue politics is the way to accomplish that. Ending capitalism, massive fundamental reform, that would significantly lessen the quality of life for most people such that it's an unreasonable expectation. Slow socialist-libertarian changes (which is a counter intuitive combination I know), could cause great ripples in the corporate system. Capitalism is unsustainable anyway, this global recession shows that. With free media, the internet, and the 3D printer now a reality; capitalism can only survive by restricting the free-flow of information. Copyright and trademark laws will soon become some of the most important cornerstones of capitalism.