Shin Megami Tensei IV

[Vecha]

I was surprised not to see this in the Nintendo section. Actually don't see an SMT forum anywhere. Unless I'm blind(that is entirely possible...please delete this/merge if I just failed at using the search bar).

I'm enjoying it so far. 

Right now I'm using one save as my "safe zone" and another to save as I progress. If that makes sense...

I also save right before finding demons and I'll restart if things don't go my way.

I anticipate this taking me quite a few hours of torturistic-fun. 


Edit: I'll put my impressions here instead of making multiple posts. Hehe

-Not a fan of 3d, but I love the 3d effects with this game. I love how the menus and backgrounds work together. Though...I can't keep it on for too long

-The battle death effects are Awesome! I love using the arrow attack that blows a hole through demons. Or the tornado/wind attack. Just lovely effects

-Is getting me pumped for the persona game coming to the 3ds

-The music is great. Really sets the mood...

Edited September 6, 2014 by Vecha

[Vecha]

This is my first foray in the "main" series(I use quotes...because they aren't really connected...are they?). Was anyone dissapointed this landed on a handheld instead of the ps3? I am really enjoyed it! Kinda hoping the 5th game will land on the ps4.

Wonder if the chances will be higher that it will indeed jump back to consoles if Persona 5 is a great success. Would be great if Persona 5 is to Atlus what FF7 was to SquareSoft. I'm probably not the first to come to this conclusion.

Thoughts?

I'd still gladly grab SMT V if it shows up on the *new* 3ds(or whatever hot handheld...just not a touchscreen phone. Please God.)

[FMW]

Hey hey, I'm our resident SMT enthusiast.  I can respond to a few of your questions/thoughts.

 

1.  Don't let SMT IV get you pumped for Persona Q.  That's a very different deal from a different studio.  Persona Q is actually "Etrian Odyssey - Persona Edition".  The graphics, art style, and gameplay are all lifted from Etrian Odyssey.  You may or may not be into that and that's fine, but don't let your impressions of SMT IV color your expectations for Persona Q.

 

2.  SMT going back to consoles is.... unlikely.  SMT is bigger in Japan than elsewhere, and handhelds are the primary gaming platforms in Japan.  Persona is at this point a much bigger deal in the mainstream than SMT so Persona 5 is getting money heaped upon it during development and is gonna be a snazzy looking console game, but Persona is the only brand Atlus can do that with.  Even if they DID make a super high definition fancy looking SMT console game any additional sales wouldn't nearly make up for the additional cost of development.

 

3.  SMT V will probably not come out for a while.  They like those games to be events.  I mean, we're only up to IV and this franchise goes back to the SNES.  Instead expect spinoffs that recycle the SMT IV engine.  Atlus is big on thrifty development.  After SMT III they reused their models from that game in four additional PS2 SMT games.  I would expect some sort of SMT one-off like a SMT Strange Journey or a SMT Digital Devil Saga.

 

Good news is, SMT spin offs are actually often better than the core SMT line.

[toxicitizen]

Persona is very much designed with a Japanese audience in mind. It's gained a big following in the west but I don't think it has a chance of reaching FFVII levels of mainstream success quite yet. P5 will most likely be Atlus' best-selling title ever, though.

 

I wonder what that means for the SMT line. Ever since Persona 4 Golden, they've dropped the SMT moniker from each new release, so I think they're turning Persona back into its own thing in the west. And like FMW said, I wouldn't expect mainline SMT to leave handhelds any time soon, unfortunately. It's a very niche series, more so than Persona.

 

I really hope we get some proper console spin-offs after P5, personally. With P5 now coming out on PS4, they could re-use a lot of assets and make new HD games relatively faster. I want more weird stuff like Digital Devil Saga, damnit! I wouldn't be surprised if they just went straight to work on Persona 6, though...

Edited September 6, 2014 by FLD

[Vecha]

I actually have two ps3 SMT games...digital devil saga and Nocturne I believe. Sadly, never got into...yet. Bought them a few years ago..played for an hour...then something distracted me.

Is PQ being made by the EO team? I'm sure I'll enjoy it either way. I love fusing demons. 

I might go back and try out the ps2 games after I'm done with SMT IV.

 

Still haven't faced my first boss....been grinding and fusing more and more powerful demons. Got two fused demons at level 8. Trying to get one more. Have a Ice persona, a strength/lighting based persona, and trying to get a fire one.

ETA: Stink that I can't download the free White Samurai gear that everyone else got. Bet it makes the earlier part a tad more difficult, maybe..But I've been doing alright for the past few hours.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Vecha

[toxicitizen]

From what I understand, Persona Q is made by the Etrian Odyssey team but still has Persona team people in key lead positions such as character design, music, etc.

 

And having recently played Nocturne, I can vouch for its quality. I haven't played SMTIV but a lot of people seem to think of Nocturne as the better game. I plan on getting the Digital Devil Saga games on PSN at some point but right now my plate is kinda full with school and new Vita releases.

[TheMightyEthan]

I can never figure out Japanese game series and spinoff and versions and whatnot, they just seem so convoluted and every single one has a nonsensical name.

[Vecha]

I don't focus too much on the names, but from what I looked up...they do have some connection with the game.

I just enjoy the game play. 

Gory, Dark, Pokemon FTW!

[FMW]

Nocturne is a good game, but I think it gets a little over valued since it was the first SMT game in the west.  I would say it's about as good as SMT IV, but the two games have different strengths.  SMT Nocturne has more endings and better endings.  It has better music.  SMT IV has better environments and more interesting exploration.  It has way better user interface.

 

Neither game has particularly strong characterization or pacing.  Both games have good combat/leveling/fusion mechanics.

 

The real secret is that SMT Strange Journey, the odd one out that released between SMT 3 and 4, is better than either of them.  Same good combat, same good demon fusion, but a unique premise and decent character arcs which isn't something the other games have.

[Vecha]

Hmmm...Might get SMT Strange Jounrey to add to my collection then.

I have the first digital devil saga and nocturne. Played a bit of DDS, and I really like it! Plan to get the second in the future.

[Alex Heat]

The real secret is that SMT Strange Journey, the odd one out that released between SMT 3 and 4, is better than either of them.  Same good combat, same good demon fusion, but a unique premise and decent character arcs which isn't something the other games have.

 

The music took a pretty serious hit if you ask me though.

[FMW]

The music in Strange Journey is weird.  All synth military chants and shit.  It definitely isn't music that a person would EVER listen to outside of the game, but I feel like it fits the specific atmosphere and military premise within the game pretty well.  So I tend to say that the Strange Journey music is good soundtrack music, but not good listening music.  Kinda like Zelda: Skyward Sword.  That game took a hard turn away from hummable tunes and focused more on atmosphere/percussion lines.

 

As for Vecha, I too am a big fan of Digital Devil Saga!  That first game is an absolute classic.  A few things start falling apart as the story goes off on the crazy train in part 2, but part 1 is so so good.

[TheMightyEthan]

Hummable tunes are something I feel many games are missing nowadays.  I read (or possibly watched?) something a couple years ago that had the thesis that the reason people think old games' music was so much better than modern games was because the old midi synthesizers were so limiting that you were pretty much obligated to create a strong melody for it to even sound like music, whereas today they like to create these big, complicated, orchestral scores that don't have strong melodies to them, and so are ultimately forgettable.

[Alex Heat]

That would definitely explain why most music in modern games just becomes boring ambiance to me.

[FMW]

I don't see ambient music as necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a different style and within that style there can be good and bad music.  The trick to ambient music/sound is that it actually has to fit the tone and setting to help define it.  In a Megaman game you could more or less assign any background chiptune loop to any level and it would still work because the point is to give you an upbeat driving melody line.  Same deal in Shovel Knight, those tunes are almost completely interchangeable.

 

With ambient music to be good it needs to be more specific.  So when you look at something like Darksiders or Castlevania: Lords of Shadow the music is well made, but it just kinda blends into orchestrated sounding aural mush.  Because those games could swap soundtracks and it would basically work, the "ambient" music isn't actually adding to the ambiance.

 

On the other hand there are examples of really good ambient soundtracks too.  I think that SMT IV is really good at this actually.  It uses minimalist percussion lines and distinct sounds to define a specific character for each region of Tokyo.  Shibuya and Ikebukero are as different as Bronx and Queens, and SMT IV uses the ambient style soundtrack to help communicate that.  It's actually really good.  Another good example of ambient music done right would be Metroid Prime 2.

 

So I don't think the problem with contemporary game music is that it's gotten away from melody driven loops all the time, it's just that a lot of games aren't intelligently leveraging ambient style music as a part of the whole of the level it accompanies.  A lot of the time what we get is "cut rate Lord of the Rings".

[TheMightyEthan]

Something can be orchestral and still have a strong melody.  Lord of the Rings is a perfect example of that, or Star Wars.  And the problem isn't so much that they don't have melodies at all times, it's that they never have them.

[Vecha]

Still getting my ass handed to me by SMT IV. Been grinding a lot. And fusing more powerful perso--demons. Especially after I find out I have NO demons that'll work against either the demons in the area/boss' weaknesses. 

Enjoy the story so far....got slightly spoiled, I think. Guess I'll be going to post-apocalyptic Tokyo eventually? Really intriguing....and makes me want to see what they do with that.

GOTTA FIND THAT BLACK SAMURAI!

[FMW]

I demand an update!  Vecha!  Did you or did you not find that black samurai?

 

You shouldn't start a thread where we talk about a game you're playing and then go dark on us.  Did you manage to soldier through the not-very-good opening of SMT IV and get into Tokyo?  Did you align yourself with a particular story path?  Did you digress off to any of the different SMT games you were talking about instead?

[Vecha]

Ok...yes. I got into Tokyo...haven't played in a couple of months.

I really need someone to yell at me to get back into a game more often.

Actually been playing Pokemon... >.> I guess I'll switch gears again. lol

 

[Vecha]

Well, I jumped back into SMT IV recently...I had just gotten to Tokyo and I'm addicted to it now/again. 

Getting to Tokyo from Naraku was pretty sweet...and I'm expecting some kind of conspiracy between the leaders up above and the shit that hit the fan down below(at least that's my theory right now).

I'm kind of worried about what "ending" I'll get...read that your choices throughout lead to either Law/order or chaos? Not sure if I'll get the chance to play through it again. Hoping I can get through this game before Xenoblade Chronicles comes out.

Exploring Tokyo can be a bit confusing...and sometimes annoying when trying to find where to go...and ending up in dead ends, but it becomes satisfying once I finally get where I need to be.  

My new XL 3DS also makes the game that more lovely to play...

Wonder if SMT V will be on the ps3/4 or if that'll just make it portable agian.

[FMW]

Here, I can give you a breakdown of the ending options without spoiling anything.  There's Law, Neutral, and Chaos.  Once you've been in Tokyo for a while you can talk to a guy in all the bars with that horrid abrasive music and he'll tell you "How people think about you" or something awkwardly translated along those lines.  Basically, you can keep track of where you're leaning and adjust accordingly if you feel the need.

 

The Law and Chaos endings are shorter game experiences, but also much more direct.  I landed on Law my first time through and it was pretty fun!  A cool extra long dungeon and a sequence of tricky bosses leading up to a showdown with Lucifer.  Good times.

 

The NEUTRAL path on the other hand is much harder to land on (you can't stray very far at all in either alignment direction without getting railroaded to that ending) AND there's this super dumb stretch where the game says "In order to access the neutral ending, go do all the sidequests".  That's where I got on my replay file going for neutral ending.  That's not cool game.  I need to replay the whole damn campaign just to see the new finale, but I ALSO need to dick around doing all the sidequests first?  Very not cool.  Problem is, there's way more content to the neutral ending and it's pretty clearly the "good" ending.

 

SMT pretends to trade in moral greys, but this one dropped the ball.  The two extreme endings are pretty much bad news, if you want any ending that isn't horrific you need to land on Neutral.

 

So your choice.  Straightforward ending towards whichever alignment speaks to you, or get the most out of your game and go for the "good" ending (which I still haven't see all of so I can't comment on specifically) and have to do all the sidequests.

 

 

Also:  SMT V won't be for at least six or seven years, so it'll depend on the state of the video game market then.  I doubt it'll be console though.  The real question is whether it'll be portable or mobile phone.

[Alex Heat]

Everyone knows that the Law ending is usually presented as the baddest ending since deities in SMT are bigger jerks than Roman gods.

[Vecha]

Thanks for the tips! Worries I may not get the neutral ending...wonder if I should save where I'm at(ikeburu? Something? Sorry lol) and see if I'll need to load it back up and try again.

 

Been doing the challenge quests. Love running around Tokyo.

 

And please God, no! Mobile phones? For a game like SMT? I am hopeful atlus will at least develop spin offs of SMT on the consoles...maybe something as grand as Strange Journey or Digital Devil Saga? Repeat the greatness of the Jrpg days of the ps2 era.

 

But if they focus on vita/3Ds of psp-vita3/NEW new NEW 3Ds-4Ds(ha!) I'll still be happy.

 

Oh BTW I bought strange journey and plan to dive into that once I beat SMT IV( or at least get to one ending).

[FMW]

The REAL question is what SMT titles are Atlus working on right now?  There's the Persona division that's making the massive Persona 5 project and supervising all the spinoffs, and the Etrian Odyssey crew have been keeping themselves busy with the two "Untold" remakes, Etrian Odyssey V, Persona Q, and the Mystery Dungeon crossover (which looks sick and I must have).

 

But as far as SMT literally the only thing going on is the expanded rerelease of Devil Survivor 2.  From the sounds of it Devil Survivor 2 Break Record has had a fair bit more work done on it than most remakes/reissues so it's not like that's nothing, but there's still a hole there.  Normally when Atlus makes a big new SMT game they populate the world with spinoffs based on the assets and engine.  SMT 3 gave us all the PS2 SMT games.  The two Devil Survivor games ripped 100% of their combat assets from Strange Journey.

 

SMT IV has led to... nothing at all.  That doesn't seem right.  Atlus looooves the 3DS RPG market and the SMT creative leads aren't attached to any currently announced projects.  So what the hell are they up to?

[Vecha]

That's why my hope(maybe fantasy since they love the 3DS so much. Not that'll shy away from future smt games on the 3DS using smt iv assets!) Is spin offs from P5. Which probably won't happen.

 

But some more smt games on the 3DS using SMT IV as their backbone would be sweet. I'd LOVE for them to take advantage of the NEW 3DS processor speed boost.

 

Wish I could make a clone of me to play all these games...

 

Back to SMT IV...I was doing a few quests...assuming they were part of the main quests, but found out they were side quests...guess my need to finish as much in one area as possible paid off.

 

Also, got into a quest dealing with Preliminary tournament battles...and I was given a choice at the and if each battle...does that affect my karma/alignment? I just chose what I thought would be chaos/law every other match.

 

Read one tip online on how to get a guaranteed neutral alignment and I'd have to restart and follow all their choices...if I have to I'll come back to SMT IV after smt strange journey and p5(it'll probably take me that long to finish strange journey lol)

 

Man, I could stick with just atlus games and be content!

 

A side note...I hate how the contrast on the 3ds affects the 3d...in lighter parts I see ghost/sides of objects interfering with the 3d. Not a biiigggg issue but can be annoying. Wonder if the 3DS 2(4DS! Smellovision!) Will have a new 3d tech(just hope it is back words compatible like their previous consoles/handhelds have been