Nintendo Switch

[Mr. GOH!]

Games by Nintendo for Nintendo won't be enough to sustain the platform. Never has been. The Ninty platforms with the highest ratios of Ninty games to third party games have been the failures. 

 

Nintendo is kinda right to focus its limited resources on one platform, I guess. But they're caught between a rock and a hard place because the choice is between competing with Sony and MS in the home console market and competing with every smartphone and tablet in the mobile market. 

 

"When they try to push online or open world gaming it's always clumsy." Good thing the flagship NX title isn't an open-world Zelda game, then, huh?

[TheMightyEthan]

Here's a concept drawing from Eurogamer based on the reports they're getting:

 

 

Obviously scale is still a question, but based on the size of the controller parts on the side it looks like you guys are right and it will be closer to the Wii U tablet than a Vita.

 

Also according to Eurogamer the Tegra X1 that's supposed to be powering the thing would make it more powerful than a Wii U.

[Mr. GOH!]

The Terra x1 is more powerful than the Wii U hardware? I guess that's not saying much, though.

[toxicitizen]

Games by Nintendo for Nintendo won't be enough to sustain the platform. Never has been. The Ninty platforms with the highest ratios of Ninty games to third party games have been the failures.

Third-party support hasn't really been an issue on their handhelds, though. Only in the main console/AAA space. That's why the hybrid approach could very well pay off for them. Especially if the rumors of the low price point are true.

[TheMightyEthan]

Yeah, assuming it sells decently I don't think 3rd party support will be as big a problem as it was for the Wii and Wii U for a few reasons:

 

1.  As FLD says, they've never had problem with 3rd party support on their handhelds.  Nintendo is basically unchallenged for AAA mobile gaming hardware, and while the vast majority of people will just play games on their phones/tablets it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there are still enough people who want a dedicated game handheld to support this.

 

2.  While the form factor is off-the-wall, it's not weird in a way that requires special development.  It's not like the Wii U with two screens, or the Wii with its ridiculous controller.  Any game that would work on an Xbox or Playstation would work on this thing (at least in terms of controls/interface, putting aside power).

 

3.  Tegra is at least a standard chip that lots of other devices use, so developers are used to working with it.  It's not some weird proprietary thing.

[Mr. GOH!]

But the NX is both a handheld *and* a home console with at least two separate controller configurations; local multiplayer games will, presumably, have to support the weird pulled-away configuration while single-player or online-only MP games need only support the NX in its unified configuration. 

 

I would be very surprised if AAA games are ported to the NX from the Xbone or PS4; the Tegra is nowhere near good enough to support modern AAA games. I bet Ninty is hoping lots of smaller and indies games will be ported, which they probably will, but I doubt many people will be buying the NX to play indies.

 

It's confusing to me that Nintendo appears to be pushing a major AAA open world game for this thing's launch; the new Zelda does not seem like it would be very tiny-screen friendly.

[toxicitizen]

I think you're missing the point. Yeah, it's not likely to get AAA ports from EA, Activision and other big publishers. No one's going to be buying the thing to play the latest Call of Duty. But it'll most certainly get the third-party support that Nintendo handhelds typically get. Think of it more as a powerful handheld that you can hook up to your TV. And if it does turn out to be more powerful than the Wii U (and actually sells) then I think it'll definitely get at least some extra third-party support you wouldn't typically get on a handheld.

 

I don't know, the more I think about it the more interesting it sounds to me. Even if ultimately all it provides is the usual Nintendo handheld experience at a higher graphical fidelity and on a bigger screen, that still sounds pretty good to me.

[Mr. GOH!]

Well, I suppose if there's any gaming machine Nintendo would want to compete with, it's the nVidia Shield tablet that very few people bought.

[TheMightyEthan]

 

 

But the NX is both a handheld *and* a home console with at least two separate controller configurations; local multiplayer games will, presumably, have to support the weird pulled-away configuration while single-player or online-only MP games need only support the NX in its unified configuration.

I think most games can and will just ignore the "each half is its own controller" configuration. There's no reason any game will /have/ to support that, so it shouldn't be a deterrent to support. If I had to guess I'd say that mode will only be supported by first party games like NSMB and Super Smash, and everyone else will just require you to hold both parts to effectively have a standard controller.

[FMW]

Unfortunately, I don't think that this is really Nintendo focusing all their software development on a single platform.  Console is out, but smartphones are in.  And the early leaks have all said that the NX will have smartphone game interaction/compatibility of some sort.  Nintendo has been hiring a LOT of new people to work on smartphone development.  And existing internal talent is being shifted over there too.  The guy who's run Mario Kart for the past decade (one of Nintendo's absolute most successful and consistent franchises) is over in charge of smartphone development now.

 

AND we're now in the era of games as a service where games can't just be finished, shipped, and forgotten.  Smartphone games especially but also modern console games require regular updating, bug fixing, etc.  So that's going to slow down first party development for sure.  Splatoon 2, for example, is probably only in very early stages of development.  Because the company was still developing and releasing DLC and updates for the year after release.

 

So in retrospect, thinking that cutting two platforms down to one will equal twice as many Nintendo games for the one platform was wishful thinking.  We may still get an uptick, but only a moderate one.  Modern games take longer to make, need to be tended after release, and Nintendo's splitting with smartphone development still.  So I guess this is business as usual.

 

But hey!  Maybe Nintendo can make a multiplayer Zelda game where smartphones are the controllers and for the first time over have a multiplayer Zelda experience that doesn't require hundreds of dollars of Nintendo specific equipment to play!

[TheMightyEthan]

But Nintendo's stated aim is to use smartphone games to drive their core console games business.  Obviously they're devoting some resources to the smartphone side of things but I don't think they're going to be developing the same kind of "full" games that we'd expect to see on their consoles or handhelds, so I don't think it will take as much attention as if they were supporting both a console and a handheld like they have since the Gameboy.

[FMW]

We'll see how long that prioritization lasts one that mobile money starts rolling in. Gotta remember that Kimishima is a business guy, not an ex-developer like Iwata. He'll follow the money.

[CorgiShinobi]

 

Switch, a.k.a. "Guys, this isn't another Wii"

 

Super skeptical of the performance, but we clearly see the intent of the console now.

[deanb]

Oh it's not gonna perform anywhere near what you'll get in the PS4/Xbone. But will likely be on-par with a modern phone, which these days with Nvidia chips in them are pretty dang powerful (like compared to say...3DS). But it's what's expected of Nintendo, they don't do the whole particle effects n godrays stuff.

 

Hopefully the nunchuck things are cheap cos they're gonna bust in an instant. Unsure what the local play thoughts are, it seems they showed for out and about you can play like two players with the controller split into two bits, but obviously your game choice will be limited if you've only a stick and a few face buttons.

 

Kinda bad idea to show off Skyrim imo, I know it's getting a remaster out soon but end of the day it's a 5 year old game. It's also the only third party they showed which kinda reinforces the whole "Nintendo sucks for non Nintendo games". But that's just my thoughts. I'd have either stuck purely with Nintendo stuff, or made sure to have like 3+ or so third party stuff than a single 7th gen game for a ....err....assuming a console per generation they're now into "9th gen", but Wii U I guess was a bit of a fuck up so this a do-over I guess.

 

edit: hahahah. So my whole "likely on par with modern phone, which powered by a nvidia chip can be pretty dang powerful". Guess who is back in the "console" game:

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/10/20/nintendo-switch/

[FMW]

Well it was pretty obvious that Zelda was taking a framerate hit played on Tablet.  I suppose if I'd thought about it that should have been expected?  Like, unless the console box is literally nothing but a charging case then you're losing some horsepower when you detach and go mobile.

 

And that's fine, but it does bring up the question of a split hardware SKU within the system.  Are publishers going to get the choice to make their games not compatible with the tablet version, and then that would allow them to push tech more since they'll be built only for the full console hardware?

 

Or will Nintendo be a butt and say "All games must comply with our new gimmick, and this means all games must have a low tech scale available so they can be played in detached format"

 

I think that having the split could kind of work for the Japanese market though.  In Japan there's an awful lot of developers that have never really moved into HD production.  The games don't make enough money in that small market to make that development spend profitable.  And for this reason there's a lot of companies still releasing games on 3DS over there - Nintendo is the low spec option for developers AND they have a huge install base.  Assuming that the Switch ends up consolidating the handheld and console halves of the company, I can totally see a ton of Japanese B tier franchises migrating over and releasing with the intent to be played in mobile mode.  So we'll see the low tech stuff from Atlus, IntiCreates, Capcom, etc.

 

There's been this long held belief that Nintendo never has third party support, but that's not true.  They just never have Western third party support.  They still get stuff from everyone in Japan, and they're rarely iced out of software unless it literally can't run on the hardware (No FF 13 games on Wii, no Metal Gear Solid 5 on Wii U).  So what will be interesting when the inevitable Software Direct comes out is seeing if 1.  Nintendo can get ports of hi spec Japanese games that they didn't get before because of hardware (FF XV, Persona, MGS) and 2.  Nintendo can get anything from the West more current than Skyrim.

 

Last thought:  Splatoon as an eSport.  Lol.

[TheMightyEthan]

That's the Mario game I wanted on the Wii U.  Goddammit!

 

@Dean:  We've known it's a Tegra for a long time.

 

@FMW:  I'm pretty confident the base really is just a glorified charging station with HDMI ports, and possibly some kind of upscaling chip built in and maybe additional storage space.  I doubt there's any actual processing horsepower in the base.  If there really is a performance hit when you go mobile it's more likely that it's due to it going into some kind of power save mode when it goes over to battery power.

 

Anyway, as I've said before the PS4+Vita has completely sold me on this thing's premise, I just need to see that it's actually going to be supported now.

 

Also, Switch is a dumb name, but it's way better than Wii U.  I would have chosen either Next or simply Nex.  I do at least get where they're coming from with the theming between the name and their usage design.

 

*Edit - If by some miracle this thing actually gets wide support from Western 3rd parties then the portability aspect could easily turn it into my go-to console.

Edited October 20, 2016 by AllHallowsEve-than

[deanb]

I'm pretty sure that stand is purely a HDMI output and charging cradle. The Nvidia piece doesn't talk of it having two components to it, and it'd be highly unconventional. Essentially it's a tablet with a dock. A nintendo branded version of one of these:

 

Just unlike say the Nvidia Shield I've a inkling the Switch won't support Shadowplay/PC Streaming.

 

"The west" as far as gamers go far outweighs that of Japan though, so be a good idea for them to try n get some stuff on there. I doubt we'll see FFXV make its way to the Switch given it being a tablet. It's a pretty high-end looking game. It's also taking up much of the 50GB available too, which'll be suuuppper pricey to do that on carts.

 

edit: @Ethan I've not really been following this along much. And "known" is up until Nvidia publishing their article today more "rumoured".

 

edit2: I guess World of Final Fantasy would be up its street.

[TheFlyingGerbil]

 The high-efficiency scalable processor includes an NVIDIA GPU based on the same architecture as the world’s top-performing GeForce gaming graphics cards.

 

Am I being optimistic or does that make it sound more like it's based off a tegra 2 than tegra 1? Either way, It's a step up from the Wii U and I don't buy Nintendo hardware for the specs, but it would be nice to have a more efficient processor in there.

 

@Dean: Won't the basket ball game have been EA? If they're back on board that can only be a good sign as they are the only ones that actually came across as not wanting to work with nintendo, rather than just not wanting to waste money on extra development for underpowered consoles (and low install base in case of Wii U) which I think was most developers issues.

 

To me, I am pleased. Once the general concept was leaked, this is about as good as I could have imagined it. I like that it looked like you could just pull the console straight out of the base and carry on, rather than having to prepare it for removal (e.g. go back to home menu and "eject" it, then reload the game). It looked seamless. I wonder which bits you actually get with it. There seemed to be a base unit, a screen, a controller base that the screen attaches to, and the "pro controller". Hopefully they do something akin to the premium Wii U where you'd get the standalone controller and a game bundled in, and a cheaper version without to tempt more people.

 

Things I'm wondering about now (apart from price) are, after reading FMW's post, I hope the region-free rumours are true,. Games linked to your account (hopefully you'll be able to play your virtual console games you've already bought (several times) on there without having to play again. And where I'll put it, my consoles go on a shelf under the TV so there will be no room there to pull the console out of the base. Also, they've called it their new home console, I wonder what that means for the 3DS and any future successors? Maybe they'll keep producing a budget portable line, download/virtual console only. Maybe it means they'll keep on the 3DS for a few more years and then that will be them done with handhelds - seems weird though if they go down to one format does that mean all future consoles from nintendo will have to be hybrid?

 

 

Also, this is where the Facebook link goes from the Switch teaser on Nintendo UK's official youtube channel...

Edited October 20, 2016 by TheDyingGerbil

[TheMightyEthan]

My guess as to what will be included in the box:  console itself (obviously), base station with power brick, the two snap-on controllers, and an HDMI cable.  I'm guessing the "pro controller", that other controller thing that you snap the little controllers into, and any mobile (ie non-base-station) charging cord will all be sold separately.

[TCP]

PORTABLE SKYRIM?!

YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES.

[Thursday Next]

My guess as to what will be included in the box:  console itself (obviously), base station with power brick, the two snap-on controllers, and an HDMI cable.  I'm guessing the "pro controller", that other controller thing that you snap the little controllers into, and any mobile (ie non-base-station) charging cord will all be sold separately.

 

I agree. Console, twiddly sticks, dock, cables.

 

Controllers, grip, grip with moar battery-ness (not announced, but inevitable) sold separately, at a high price...

 

Got some rare things on sale stranger!

[deanb]

I'd imagine the basic controller base thing would come with it, would seem weird not to include that since I'd imagine it's pretty much just something to clip the bits into and hold on to. It doesn't look any more complex than that. It probably won't come with a power cable though knowing Nintendo

 

I'd guess in theory they could do a stripped down basic SKU on par with like the 12GB PS3/Xbox 360 Arcade, just comes with the tablet, charging cable and the two "joy-cons" since that's literally all you need to make it work and target that as a handheld. But I can't imagine the controller grip and a base station would add much more cost to it so kinda might as well sell it with full capabilities.

 

@Gerbil: Ah hadn't noticed that at first. I guess that's two games. Haven't most major players pulled out, like Ubisoft were there last big guy and I think all Ubi knock out for Nintendo now is Just Dance games. Oh and the Skylanders/Infinity/Dimensions stuff. 

 

@TCP: Skyrim Remastered + Vita Remoteplay.

 

@Thursday: Not sure it'll have an expandable battery. The Wii U was clearly built to stick in a bigger battery but that model seems really slim, I doubt it'll have much space in there, tablets are usually build very cramped together.

[TheMightyEthan]

It may not have an expandable battery but there could be external batteries built into a controller-holder type thing.  Like a power bank.

[TCP]

@TCP: Skyrim Remastered + Vita Remoteplay.

 

Don't get me wrong Dean. I'm going to do the fuck out of that. But what if I want to play in the park? On a plane? At work? While I'm supposed to be watching my sister's kids?!?! SWITCH!!!!!!

[Thursday Next]

@Dean the grip thingy clearly has lights on it, so more than just a lump of plastic.