Jump to content

UK Politics Thread


deanb
 Share

EU Referndum  

9 members have voted

  1. 1. Should UK leave the EU

    • From UK: Should Stay
      3
    • From UK: Should Leave
      0
    • Outside of UK: Should Stay
      4
    • Outside of UK: Should Leave
      0
    • Outside of UK: None of my beeswax
      1
    • Left Leg In UK, Left Leg Out UK: Do the Okie-Kokie (that's what it's all about)
      1


Recommended Posts

Video seems to give a fairly succint view of the current 'deals' put on the table without going into the nitty gritty of the constant string of stupid choices.

 

As for Troubles 2.0 it's not exactly 100% hunky dory. The other day IRA claimed 5 letterbomb attacks and that's 2019. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47538402

 

No fucking idea what the next few weeks will see. Government is pretty much fucked, both in terms of options and just as a concept in general.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to know what's going on now we've had that new vote. They've voted no to the deal we have and now no to a no deal brexit, so what does that leave? As far as I can guess it will be tinkering with this deal which no one actually thinks is good and returning it to the vote and repeat this process until enough MPs get sick of it and it eventually passes even though no one is actually any more keen on it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My impression was the next option is to ask the EU for an extension, but the EU has said they won't agree to an extension without a good reason, and that this deal is not open to changes, it's take it or leave it. So why would they agree to give an extension to renegotiate a deal they've already said they won't renegotiate?

 

Here's what I, definitely not a political analyst, with no expertise in this area, anticipate: parliament votes for an extension, EU says no, parliament will hem and haw and finally pass the deal.

 

Here's what I hope will happen: parliament votes for an extension, EU says no, vote of no confidence in May, snap elections, EU agrees to an extension for long enough for the elections to occur, new govt calls for second referendum, Brexit is soundly defeated, UK revokes Article 50 and stays in the EU. Realizing it's extremely unlikely the new govt would call for a new referendum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From my eyes, pretty much mirroring Ethan's hopes: Parliament is just going in circles. Request extension to do another Brexit referendum in a month or two (Probably finalized in May for a sort of national Mayday...). If yes, then just eat the shit sandwich you all collectively made. If no, admit that the UK collectively shit their pants, clean up and be embarrassed about it till the end of time. This is so this shit can be in it's final chapters for, what I've read but have not confirmed, EU representatives election thing in June. 

 

From the outside looking in, it's like personal or political ego is in the way of doing what seems to make sense? 

 

Also, Re: Troubles 2.0, I see. Well, if Brexit goes through, I doubt it'll just remain an Irish/IRA thing to truly make it the Troubles 2.0.

 

Ahhhh... Fuck. I got to agree with GOH. US political issues looks like peanuts compared to UK's. I'm getting anxiety just thinking about it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Got me some of that sweet sweet government response. From the Department of Exiting the EU to boot.

Worth noting that "this government" very recently had a bunch of power yanked off them for a failure to deliver a deal so.... (which I guess gives this department a bit of free time to spend replying). It's just bollocks, the whole "weaken democracy" (by honouring a illegal result) and 17.4million stuff (ignoring the 17.2million stuff) is all just rubbish brexiteer soundbite wank. A considerable, a record breaking level of considerable, MPs voted against the deal put forth by government so...

image.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/apr/10/brexit-eu-to-decide-on-uk-extension-live-news

Ugh... delayed to October 31st? That is oddly generous of the EU... which I see as kind of a big hint on what the UK should probably do. Or else get spooky skeleton'd and ectoplasm'd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is the EU is creating for itself is it keeps saying "no extensions past X date without a realistic plan for going forward", then the UK continues to shit itself, and they give it another extension anyway. So now the EU deadlines are meaningless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's only given two extensions. And I'd say this one is pretty final. Main reason it's "generous" is they either gave a short extension that'd fuck with the upcoming elections, or a mid-length which'd run up against both the elections and the summer break (it's been suggested that the summer break should be shortened this year). This way it means that there won't be repeated back n forth wasting time on extensions

 

Hopefully the time makes it much better on selling idea of either a referendum or a GE. Or both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once is never, twice is always.

 

By setting a hard line ("No extensions past April 12 unless the UK presents a credible plan for going forward") and then breaking it when the UK didn't meet the condition, they've established a precedent that their requirements are not to be taken seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Well, the EU renegotiated the deal they said they wouldn't renegotiate. They're saying this deal is take it or leave it and not up to renegotiation, but, as I said before:

 

On 4/14/2019 at 10:41 AM, TheMightyEthan said:

they've established a precedent that their requirements are not to be taken seriously.

 

But really, parliament passed the "in principal" resolution, so I expect after the elections (which the Tories look set to win pretty soundly, if you can trust polling data) Parliament will pass the implementation legislation and the UK actually will leave by the end of January.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leaving the EU with a bad deal, 5 more years of Tories to get us fucked over by US trade "deals" and all their other for the few, not the many shenanigans. Literally could not be a worse outcome. Genuinely impressive that Labour has managed to remain unelectable in the face of this mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • 1 year later...

Well, the border in the Irish sea that we were promised wouldn't appear, appeared. The violence in Ireland that we were promised wouldn't return has returned, supermarkets are struggling to stock shelves, and mobile roaming charges are coming back. So all in all, "Project Fear" turned out to be "Project Kassandra" and is now pivoting to "Project I know I said I wouldn't say 'I told you so.' but since you went back on everything *you* said... 'I told you so.'"

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually haven't heard anything about Ireland. Considering how connected I am, that is a bit surprising. I asked because of the inability to stock shelves. Seems like the Brexiters (I get the impression they really don't want to be id as such) try to pin that to the pandemic but go across the Channel and the countries there seem to be fine. You can probably also go to Ireland Ireland and they seem fine. Seems like it's kind of unique to the UK.

 

Also I recall the trucking shitshow a few months (?; or was it when Brexit took affect) back where tons of drivers were stranded in I think the UK? Is what happening now a child of that event? Basically no EU drivers so the workforce is slashed to hell.

 

Any of you have a good resource (news agencies, could be folks to follow, podcast or whatever) to keep up to date on this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55646360

 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ni-hospitals-and-schools-facing-food-shortages-in-major-crisis-minister-39967782.html

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/sainsburys-says-lot-uncertainty-over-nireland-trade-2021-04-28/

 

BBC, Belfast Telegraph, Reuters for a Mainland UK, NI, and EU mix of views all of which basically align on the supermarket shortages being at least in part due to Brexit (covid certainly hasn't helped mind).

 

On return to violence:

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/violence-in-northern-ireland-it-s-worse-now-than-when-it-was-in-the-troubles-1.4532953

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56664378

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nireland-protests-new-idUSKBN2BV1XQ

 

Again, mix of sources with different biases that all broadly agree that Brexit is at least a major part of the reason for return to/increase in violence (though Ireland is very complicated even 100 years on from separation).

 

There's lots around the "NI Protocol" (if you want a search term to go by) which UK govt signed up to assuring everyone it was a great deal and would "Get Brexit Done" and now are coming back to having realised that it is an Indiana Jones, Holy Grail, chose poorly, level of poison chalice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Anyone watching this Beeb documentary about New Labour? I'm only one episode in so far but its been pretty interesting to me (as a Labour Member who wasn't old enough to really remember the Blair years in any significant way). They've got another four episodes on iPlayer right now and it's going to run through the end of Browns tenure in office. 

 

One of the most startling things I noticed was just how different Brown and Blair both saw the idea of succession. Brown still seems to have a chip on his shoulder with regards to how he stepped aside to let Blair take a run at the party leadership after the death of John Smith in 1994; only to then find himself waiting longer and longer before Blair stepped down and handed over the party.

 

Going forward, I'm interested to see how they handle 2007. I think if Brown calls an election after taking over from Blair then they win an election in 2007; the delay cost them vital time and gave the Tories a massive boost with regards to the crash in 2008; at that point it was basically over for New Labour and Brown, a man who I do think would have made a decent PM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand how Brown could be naïve enough not to see Blair as the self-serving reptile he so obviously was. Unless he was just happy to see Blair treat the country like that and thought he'd be safe which I don't think paints him in any more a flattering light. Depressing to think that would still seem like one of the better options for PM from the last few decades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a massive Blair fan, but I do like Brown. I think it was less 'I'll let you take this one on the assumption that you'll do me a solid later' and more 'Okay, I could win this leadership election but it might fuck the party up in the process, so I'll step aside and you'll give me the reigns after 2 terms'. 
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...