UK Politics Thread

[TheMightyEthan]

- Wales also voted heavily in Leave despite getting the most EU funds of any UK region. It's a common thread throughout the country unfortunately, I guess most folks aren't fully aware where EU cash goes.

It's the same thing in the US, the poorest states that receive more in federal funding than they pay in taxes are the ones that complain the most about federal overspending and taxation.

[deanb]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale

 

He's a great write up on the above with Wales.

 

Gonna be a relatively quiet weekend as politicians across the continent convene n when parliament opens up on Monday we'll see a secondary burst of activity.

[TheFlyingGerbil]

If you told me even 10% of the dangleberries that voted leave had a considered opinion on the matter I wouldn't believe it and if they still hold it now, just days after the vote I would absolutely drop dead of shock. Talk about buyer's remorse you can't refund on.

 

I don't think I'd be half as bothered about leaving if I thought it was really what the majority of people wanted and not just a knee jerk reaction to the rancid press and politics we have poisoning our lives.

[deanb]

Currently wondering when the General Election will be, cos at this rate there isn't gonna be a parliament by end of summer. We've ended up with a government that hasn't a fucking clue what it's meant to be doing, with both main government and the opposition in a leadership crisis while Article 50 looms ahead.

 

At this point seems most folks are trying to figure out how to get out of pushing the button on Article 50, from Scotland vetoing it, to just ignoring it. But requires politicians to have spine. I'm just honestly gobsmacked that literally no one but Sturgeon seemed to have had any plans in place should Leave win. "now what" should not have been the response we had.

[TheMightyEthan]

Boris Johnson had a plan, it's joining the EU.

[TheMightyEthan]

Boris Johnson: Don't worry everyone, the pound is stable.

 

[danielpholt]

I'm begining to wonder if Leave actually wanted to win this thing.. They're an absolute laughing stock at this point. Can't help but wonder if they were planning on 1) making Cameron look bad and 2) going back to the EU with a new deal in mind after the British people came so close to voting Leave.

 

Johnson doesn't want to be the guy to send the UK down this path, I doubt Gove is too eager either. It's an absolute farce. 

[deanb]

Oh gods no. Boris n Gove wanted a nice 52:48 in favour of Remain. Enough to stay in the EU with all its perks, but enough on the Leave to call Camerons premiership into question and start the coup the Labour lot are all having a shot and and hey presto Prime Minister Johnson and Deputy Prime Minister Gove. A nice bit of play amongst those scrappy Etonians.

 

They kinda fucked that plan up and cost the UK economy billions in a matter a days and who knows how much over the matter of years. But they'll have their off shore accounts so no problem for them. And yeah, neither actually wanted to Leave. The only person that wanted that, and he was barred from officially campaigning for it (likely cos he actually wanted it) was Farage and now he's all boo-hoo that he doesn't get to join a "Brexit" government as if the government would ever be built around this referendum and not existing parties.

 

EU can't force our hand, but they're gonna damn well push for something. Either someone needs to take over and say we're not going through with it, or Boris or Gove need to take the noose, pop it round their neck and push the big red "Article 50" button and get a shiny b&w picture in the world history book in the chapter "The Dissolution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and North Ireland". History will decide if the next chapter is "The Dissolution of the Post-World War II European Project".

 

Honestly it's fucking disgusting that they would play at politics without a care in the world, rifle up hatred so folks get shot at, kids are yelled at in the street, global economy goes through the ringer, and they'll likely face no overall consequences beyond embarrassment.

 

Oh n for non brits some handy dandy "Class Politics in Modern Britian" in one photo:

That'll be our Prime Minister, and head of "Remain" near the top step, and ex Mayor of London and head of "Leave" at the bottom step.

 

There's another one kicking around with Osborne.

 

Oh also give Thick of It a watch if you haven't.

[deanb]

I've given up attempting to follow what the hell is going on/has gone on the last week. I feel with relation to the vote last week this seems to be the current plan:

http://i.imgur.com/dhwPLtv.gifv

 

Got shadow cabinet collapsing, bunch of knobheads wanting to be PM, meanwhile pound is fucked, banks are fucked, everything is fucked and no one seems to be doing much about it.

[danielpholt]

http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates

 

So how do we feel about Sky News broadcasting what was clearly an off the record set of remarks? 

 

How very tabloid. 

[TheMightyEthan]

My initial reaction is good, politicians and the media are too much in bed together, it's bad for the populace.

 

Though it probably will impact Sky's ability to get interviews in the future (not that I care about that).

[danielpholt]

Honestly it feels a little dirty to me. Not least because he was sitting down to do an interview for them. Maybe it's different if they've got someone going in undercover, filming with a tiny camera whilst they're out at dinner, but he was sitting in the studio, waiting to give your people an interview. It makes it feel even more shady.

[Thursday Next]

I don't like it. I'm no fan of either Sky or politicians, but I do think that if you set out in good faith to conduct an interview, then you should act in good faith.

 

I'm fine with "Fake Sheikh" style stings, but this just feels wrong.

[deanb]

Yeah it strikes me as pretty dirty, not that Sky have much integrity to begin with. I think in general folks should be allowed to hold their views private.

 

There is a slight idiocy in talking in-front of a potentially hot mike and that's caught out folks like Blair n Bush, Brown*, and Charles before now.

 

Also given this is Sky, heavily owned by Murdoch, the "in the bed" nature doesn't have to mean they're pally with all politicians. Honestly I'm surprised not much has been made of the fact that weekend before his resignation Farage was out rubbing shoulders with Murdoch at a garden party. Not just in a casual "both were there at same time" but even eating together too. Oh n Liam Fox was also there too (he's one of the PM candidates) for a Murdoch chin-wag.

 

Oh Andrea Leadsom, who is a bit of a "whose that" compared to the other candidates seems hopelessly oblivious on how websites are made which is a :/ though maybe not as much as May. May makes Thatcher look nice. The brass band following her around playing Imperial March don't help her either. Half of the potential candidates don't even have fully operating human suits either, at least sort that technical issue out before putting them centre stage. Oh May isn't ruling out repatriation either, so that's a thing. But not surprising given her "go home" vans.

 

*He was totally in the fucking right with that, and dragging her out for EU referendum stuff to give her a stage was stupid too. Oh and guess which news agency was still running a hot mic...

[TheFlyingGerbil]

what does the link say? I don't want to click it?

[deanb]

It's Sky still continuing to record Livingstone post-interview where he's make remarks about the various tory candidates.

[TheMightyEthan]

I agree that people should be entitled to keep their views private, but I feel like when you're wearing a mic connected to recording equipment that you don't have control over that's probably not a situation in which you can reasonably expect to be able to speak candidly. He knew he was wearing a mic, it's not like they secretly bugged him. Of course my opinion would be different if they told him the mic was off and it wasn't (maybe that's what happened, idk, right now we only know what Sky says).

[deanb]

We have a new PM. Another woman. Not voted for at all given everyone going up against pulled out. Which in her own words means she has no democratic mandate and should call for a General Election.

 

She's a nasty piece of work too. One of her key pillars is getting rid of the EU Human Rights charter. And it's not cos she feels it doesn't give Brits enough rights. Oh and for the non-brits she orchestrated the whole "go home" vans circling London a couple years back too.

 

On the other side of parliament you sort of feel a wee bit sorry for Angela Eagle, even if she has brought all of this upon herself.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2016/jul/11/angela-eagle-abandoned-by-media-as-reporters-focus-on-tories-video

It's like the kind of thing you get in The Office. (for context she announced her leadership bid the same day Leadsom pulled out of the Tory leadership race. Given one of those were relating to being PM media were pretty easy to pick one or the other).

 

Labour needs to sort itself out, especially if a snap GE is called. Maybe they should go "well our members voted in a landslide for Corbyn, maybe his kind of politics is the sort of thing people want from Labour, rather than Tory-lite. Maybe if I don't want to look like an opportunistic tit I should maybe reevaluate whether my values align with the party and it's members and if I can change my values, or change what party I'm for....nah I'll just try n tear this party apart for my own gain instead".

I'd say Labours mistake that led up to this years ago was picking the wrong Miliband.

[Thursday Next]

Yup. David was electable. Ed is a tit. I get that Corbyn was chosen by the membership of the Labour party, but the bottom line is that if he doesn't have the support of his MPs then he can't effectively lead the party. There's no point in "having a mandate" if everything you try to do with that mandate is voted down because you don't have the respect of your peers. If he's chosen to lead again by the membership (which seems inevitable) then he'll continue to be woefully ineffective. He's pretty much going to gift wrap the next election for May when she eventually calls it (in 2020).

 

Even when he had the support of the party (leading up to the referendum) his leadership was piss poor. Rather than leading labour voters (and his followers in particular) to come out strongly in favour of Remain, he was absent from all the major rallying points, and when questioned directly was wishy washy to the point of saying he was "about 70% in favour of remain". Being a leader means you pick a direction and strike out on it. Not waver around just off from the middle while you mull over what might be. He's supposed to be in charge of the party, not auditioning for bloody Hamlet.

[deanb]

But the problem isn't with Corbyn if the Labour voters want a guy like that in charge and the MPs don't then it's surely the issue of the MPs being in the wrong party or not fully grasping what "Left" is in this day n age. There's only so much that Corbyn can do when a chunk of the Labour MPs are deciding to throw the baby out with the bathwater cos they didn't get their way and fucked up by putting him on the ballot the first time around. Maybe Labour would be more effective if instead of putting their effort int trying to undermine their current leader they actually undermine the tories instead, since that's sort of the job of the opposition. Labour is pretty much fucked either way. Either the members get their way and Corbyn remains leader and the MPs continue to be fuck heads, or the MPs get their way pick some random member to lead them and not have the members support who might start eyeing up all the other parties who aren't undermining their current leader instead. Labour MPs choosing this of all moments to destabilise the party, and failing woefully to stage a coup, lost them the 2020 GE more than Corbyn ever could have. The PM just lost his vote, he's resigned, all the tory PM hopefuls scarpered, it was the perfect time to go in and strike, instead they aimed at Corbyn instead. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's really frustrating to see. I'm not labour but I am leftwards inclined and Labour end of the day is meant to be the main Left party and they're just constantly infighting for years now. I've said it before: Tories may be unpleasant but they're effective n organised.

 

Also I think it's unfair to pin the remain stuff on him too given it's the PM (as of today) that used the referendum as one of his pillars to get elected in the 2015 election (of which Corbyn wasn't leader at the time), and the same PM who actually put the EU ref into motion, and the same PM who was in-charge of the pro-remain camp. It's entirely 100% on David Cameron's head for that one.

[deanb]

Oh god.

[Mr. GOH!]

Looks like you guys have a government of which both Margaret Thatcher and Oswald Mosley would approve. I find the creation of a whole new department of Brexit to be very austerity minded.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Mr. GOH!

[TheMightyEthan]

I think it makes sense to put one person in charge of the overall Brexit preparations, although it seems like the kind of thing over here we'd have a "Czar" for rather than an official cabinet position.

[deanb]

A Czar? What are you, commies?!?!

[Hot Heart]

It is a sad state of affairs. Frankly, as left-leaning, I feel stuck. Labour is a complete shambles and has this complete void between electability and principles. As an opposition it is completely ineffective because it's too busy infighting. Then as Thursday Next says, his EU Referendum effort was poor. I can respect not sharing a platform with Cameron after the obscene smear campaign against Sadiq Khan (whom did share an actual stage with Cameron) but nothing better was done.

 

It's starting to feel like either David Miliband would've been a better choice and then Burnham over Corbyn. On the other hand, six years later, I'm still not sure I'm ready to forgive the Lib Dems for forming a coalition with Tories and their disastrous showing last year would suggest 2010 was their never-to-be-repeated high point anyway. Sure, Labour were considered poisonous after the recession, but history actually shows that Brown was actually getting the economy back on track before Osborne royally fucked it up.

 

The most frustrating thing is that to win a GE, you have to court the racists and bigots. You have to win over the people who voted Leave because "I don't know anyone who's voting Remain." The real fuckwits of the country. You can't cut through post-truth politics with facts, statistics, etc.

 

Even before recent events, people believed that Tories can be trusted with the economy despite over five years of everything worsening, and which is now EIGHT years after the recession. Even with this whole Brexit fuck-up, I expect people will continue with the same. I mean, after everything lately, still the Tories are polling ahead of Labour!

 

And it's also a fucking shame because there are a great many people who have been hit by austerity and continually overlooked by the government and are then led to believe that it's the fault of immigrants. Then, after years of feeling like they're not being heard thanks to the FPTP system where everything gets skewed, they get given a simple 1 vote = 1 vote translation for the referendum and think, "Yes, have a fucking piece of this, government." I reckon even Corbyn agreeing to appear with Cameron wouldn't have made a difference since then the angry voters would just conflate the two and then it's "the establishment" that can go get fucked. In the same way that there was a tangible anti-Obama sentiment after that visit. "What does fucking Obama know about trade deals? I am completely oblivious to the effects of history and globalisation and am still under the impression that there is an actual British Empire that exerts masses of power across the globe!"

 

And back to the Labour Party, the thing with Corbyn is that while he has inspired massively increased membership, it's not going to sway a GE. The numbers just do not translate to anything on a wider scale. And trying to appeal to the younger generation is fruitless because, sadly, time and time again it has been proven that young people just don't vote.

 

My only hope is that a rumoured new party composed of Lib Dems and Labour is a reality and could somehow jettison the perceived shortcomings of both. I can hope.

 

... but right now I'm fucking angry,