Minorities in Games

[deanb]

Alyx Vance is Afro-Asian and as far as I know there's not much stereotyping with her. Half-Life handled it all fairly well.

I would say she seemed a bit whiter than I would of expected of someone of african descent. She doesn't seem much as a child of Eli.

 

As for gays unless you make a huge point of it and have the character looking to fabulous, then you wouldn't much know.

Back to Half-Life again I think Gordon Freeman may be one of the most tasteful depictions of a gay man in all of gaming.

Zevran was once again another fumbled minority by Bioware. In the camp most of the conversation topics were about how much he fancied you. Almost from the minute you meet him, he's flirting with you. Yet everyone else works with a pretty slow relationship. But since I think the sexual relationship bit was just hammered in for the hell of it I'm not surprised it was handled so badly.

 

I'll maybe think of more.

[Mister Jack]

Well it's true that unless gay characters are all ding-a-ling-a-liiing~ :heart: then they tend not to be detectable at all, but that isn't really something inevitable. I'm not aware of any game that pulls off a non-player "straight gay" (i.e. a gay character who doesn't really act in a stereotypical gay fashion). It's possible there's something out there I just haven't played, but you never really have a normal party member who just happens to be fighting to save his boyfriend or anything like that. You could say "Well why bother if it's barely going to be touched on?" but I would say "Would it really be so bad if it's like that?" Of course, I imagine the business standpoint is probably "Conservative America dislikes gays, so there's no reason to risk losing money when we're not making a statement".

 

I don't really give a whole lot of credit to player characters who have the option to be gay, since that's more about player choice than open-mindedness.

[RadiantViper]

I've noticed that gay characters are slowly but surely getting fairer treatment in games. I know there was a thread about the 'homosexual perk' in Fallout New Vegas, and as such there are some well-portrayed gay NPCs (Veronica is very likeable and also has an interesting backstory/side quest).

 

Bioware has been ... iffy. I applaud them for trying, but they get mixed results. Zevran was a bit tacky, no 'real' options in either Mass Effect game. Not trying to assume, but it seems they prefer lesbians for the 'straight male fanservice' angle and they don't feature them as important as straight romances. I would love for them to step it up and improve this for ME3. Official response has been fairly disappointing, though.

[Mister Jack]

I think we've all forgotten that Leilana was also bisexual and way less of a slut than Zevran.

[RadiantViper]

I think we've all forgotten that Leilana was also bisexual and way less of a slut than Zevran.

 

Oh I know, that's why I said 'mixed results'. That was one of the better cases. I'm just saying that they've started along that path, but they could easily do better.

 

And you mentioned not knowing any 'straight gay' characters, New Vegas has a few, and two are potential party members with good backstories.

[Mister Jack]

I actually haven't really messed with New Vegas party members much outside of Boone (since Boone is god with shades on and all). Who are you referring to?

[deanb]

I don't really give a whole lot of credit to player characters who have the option to be gay, since that's more about player choice than open-mindedness.

 

Well considering there's so few games that give the option I'd give a hat tip to a dev who allows it.

 

Fable handles it all rather tastefully. Your'e essentially Bi, the NPC's are straight or gay, and if you want you can woo opposite and/or same sex, get married n all that.

It doesn't make much of a fuss of it and I'd imagine they were more on the fence of it being offensive to only have opposite sex relationships.

Also being a british made game I don't think it had the same "What would conservative America think?" process put into it's design.

 

Considering (hey it's Bioware once again) where they just came out and flatly said 'Commander Shepard is straight. End of, you shall have no say in it'. Which was somewhat disappointing.

 

Gays I think will get substantially more tasteful over time. Especially as they're quite a sticking point at the moment in civil movements and the Pink Pound is very powerful.

You don't have to go all out, but just an NPC gay couple in the game that are just treat as a regular couple. It's quite simple to do. Just make sure you don't make too big a thing of it. Because otherwise you draw attention to it, it's a big marker pen around it saying "This Is Different, One of these things is not like the other"

 

@Jack : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Veronica_Santangelo

I didn't know she was gay (I have a male character so I guess that's why it's not being brought up. The Followers doctor dude is though.) I have here n Cass tagging along. Cass cos she has a cool, and relatively simple quest chain (Kinda 2/3 chains I guess). And Veronica cos she's death on legs and...kinda looks like a girl I had thing for.

[c hoertjes]

I don't really give a whole lot of credit to player characters who have the option to be gay, since that's more about player choice than open-mindedness.

 

Well considering there's so few games that give the option I'd give a hat tip to a dev who allows it.

 

Fable handles it all rather tastefully. Your'e essentially Bi, the NPC's are straight or gay, and if you want you can woo opposite and/or same sex, get married n all that.

It doesn't make much of a fuss of it and I'd imagine they were more on the fence of it being offensive to only have opposite sex relationships.

Also being a british made game I don't think it had the same "What would conservative America think?" process put into it's design.

 

Considering (hey it's Bioware once again) where they just came out and flatly said 'Commander Shepard is straight. End of, you shall have no say in it'. Which was somewhat disappointing.

Where did you read this? Does this mean my female Shepard who has a relationship with Liara won't be able to pursue it in ME3?

[TheForgetfulBrain]

How about Persona 4?

 

I never finished the game due to my saves being wiped out, but where I was in it I hadn't quite figured out if Kanji was in the closet or he finally just admitted there were some softer aspects to him, and that was all there was to it.

 

I really wanted him to turn out to be actually gay though - seemed like it would have been another bold and mature move on the part of Atlus.

[brida]

Everyone throws themselves at you in Bioware games, Zevran is just more upfront about that. Otherwise i think it's the same thing imo

[Mister Jack]

I'll just point out here that I have never played a Persona game.

[brida]

How about Persona 4?

 

I never finished the game due to my saves being wiped out, but where I was in it I hadn't quite figured out if Kanji was in the closet or he finally just admitted there were some softer aspects to him, and that was all there was to it.

 

I really wanted him to turn out to be actually gay though - seemed like it would have been another bold and mature move on the part of Atlus.

They imply he is confused, not that he is gay. So at the end of that arc he decides that he's not actually gay, he just wants to be accepted and some such and not fulfilling traditional male roles made that difficult (ie being manly etc)

 

I was a bit dissapointed with that, if only because they'd just decide oh no I do actually like girls instead of leaving it ambiguous--maybe i like both? etc

[RadiantViper]

I actually haven't really messed with New Vegas party members much outside of Boone (since Boone is god with shades on and all). Who are you referring to?

 

Veronica, you can find her at Trading Post 188. Go through her dialogue and she'll mention how she was in love with a woman, but they had to separate.

 

The other is Arcade Gannon, found in Freeside - he's with the Followers of the Apocalypse in the Old Mormon Fort. One of the ways can recruit him with the aforementioned perk, and he makes a few comments on previous male partners.

 

There's also a few other minor characters that the perk works on that would point towards them being gay (or bisexual, of course).

 

Considering (hey it's Bioware once again) where they just came out and flatly said 'Commander Shepard is straight. End of, you shall have no say in it'. Which was somewhat disappointing.

Where did you read this? Does this mean my female Shepard who has a relationship with Liara won't be able to pursue it in ME3?

 

Romancing Liara isn't technically 'lesbian' ... Asari are genderless. I guess their way of avoiding the issue, which is a damn shame.

[CorgiShinobi]

Extra Credits did their Sexual Diversity video on Kanji from Persona 4. In short, yeah he's gay (At least, the inteded purpose was to make him gay). What makes his case all the better is that you see his struggle. What I've noticed is that Japanese games confront the issue of sexual orientation a lot more openly.

 

Of course, it doesn't mean those games take the topic seriously all the time. Jann was a comedic flamboyant lancer who would crush on Largo. Valkyria Chronicles II confronts the issue of sexual identity much better, especially with Alexis.

[Mister Jack]

I never saw Bioware say this, but if that's true it's immensely disappointing. It's also utterly unnecessary.

[brida]

Extra Credits did their Sexual Diversity video on Kanji from Persona 4. In short, yeah he's gay (At least, the inteded purpose was to make him gay). What makes his case all the better is that you see his struggle. What I've noticed is that Japanese games confront the issue of sexual orientation a lot more openly.

 

Of course, it doesn't mean those games take the topic seriously all the time. Jann was a comedic flamboyant lancer who would crush on Largo. Valkyria Chronicles II confronts the issue of sexual identity much better, especially with Alexis.

He is not gay. He even says so himself during his social link, explicitely (it's not that i like men etc its that i have a hard time being accepted) and there are many times when it's clear he likes Naoto and thinks that Chie/Yukiko are attractve to him.

[c hoertjes]

C'mon, Dean, need some sources on that quote.

[CorgiShinobi]

Extra Credits did their Sexual Diversity video on Kanji from Persona 4. In short, yeah he's gay (At least, the inteded purpose was to make him gay). What makes his case all the better is that you see his struggle. What I've noticed is that Japanese games confront the issue of sexual orientation a lot more openly.

 

Of course, it doesn't mean those games take the topic seriously all the time. Jann was a comedic flamboyant lancer who would crush on Largo. Valkyria Chronicles II confronts the issue of sexual identity much better, especially with Alexis.

He is not gay. He even says so himself during his social link, explicitely (it's not that i like men etc its that i have a hard time being accepted) and there are many times when it's clear he likes Naoto and thinks that Chie/Yukiko are attractve to him.

That's why I leave it at "intended purpose." Now, this is coming from Extra Credits, but the story goes that Troy Baker was told from Atlus that Kanji is gay.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2520-Sexual-Diversity

[Mister Jack]

That's Danny Trejo being Danny Trejo.

[deanb]

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9026170

 

What I wonder is if Dragon Age 2 will let you have Hawker as a gay character.

DA:O was quite open with adding a gay character, but that fits their 'first person narrative'. Hawke is a pre-built n fleshed out character, Commander Shepard style, and like ME2 they're aiming for a huge audience again so might go back to the 'PG-13 let's shy away from controversy' dealy all over again.

 

There was one blog covering it that did question if they're just adding in Zevran to check the box, but they don't actually want much to do with the whole gay character relationship stuff. Also lol at the comment about wanting to make the scenes different, instead of just using same anim, different models. Cos that's exactly what they did with DA:O.

 

I know the two games are made by separate studios, but is there absolutely no inter-studio communication between the two? Very much the left hand not knowing what the right is doing.

[c hoertjes]

That's ME2, not ME3.

[brida]

I think that Raul from Fallout: New Vegas is a really bad stereotype of Mexicans. I mean the guy adds "boss" to the end of every single sentence.

Didn't you write in your blog that you changed your mind a little about that after you found out about his backstory?

 

Also I saw that less as him being stereotypical as him being soooo damn used to having to speak like that for Tabitha for who knows how long.

[deanb]

That's ME2, not ME3.

 

Huh?

(I assume since the rest are now talking Persona 4 that that comment is directed at me)

[RadiantViper]

I've never seen Bioware flat out exclude the idea of a gay Shep, but their main quote on it makes it clear that they're sticking to their guns.

 

"Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is."

 

"in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open"

 

"It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future."

 

Basically comes across as dancing around the issue to me. And a bit of a cop out since there's an inkling of a lesbian relationship in ME2 ... so clearly it's not so pre-defined.

[Mister Jack]

Did Mass Effect 2 have any homosexual option? I'm having a brain fart right now. And that kiss with Liara doesn't count.