Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts

[Mr W Phallus]

Glad to see the incredibly idiotic hate for this game is quite alive and well.

 

It's one of the best games of this generation, people. Get over the fact that it's nothing like the N64 games already. Shit, people didn't bitch this much when Mario Kart came out and it was nothing like Mario. The original Banjo-Kazooie games weren't even all that great. Maybe you guys weren't old enough to remember, but when the original BK came out people whined that it was a "Mario 64 ripoff", then whined that the second "was too big".

 

Long story short, there's a long line of bitching regarding the franchise, first because it was too similar and now because it's too different. Here's the deal: Nuts & Bolts is quite easily the one game that gives the series the closest it has to a unique identity, and it's all the better for it. It's an unconventional game that isn't worried about pandering to the lowest common denominator, and it takes a quirky concept and runs with it. Suffice to say that if the "vehicles handheld like crap", YOU did something wrong with designing it, or if the game was "repititive", YOU failed at experimentation.

 

The game isn't completely flawless, but it's NOT "crap". And the people who call this "crap" just because of the fact that it's not a carbon copy of the N64 games without analyzing or even fucking mentioning the gameplay speaks quite a bit of you all's incredible pettiness. Never before have I seen such hatred for a game that isn't even about the game. You people don't hate the game because of what's in it, you hate it because of what is NOT in it. I can't even begin to explain what's wrong with that kind of thinking.

 

And people wonder why Call of Duty is the best selling franchise of this generation. It's because people HERP and freak the fuck out when a game tries anything different. You RUIN it for the rest of us who want new experiences and who, you know, keep an open mind about things.

 

I think you're defending this game a little bit too much. Some people have differing opinions y'know? I went in with an open mind because I still bought the game, and I did know that it was primarily a vehicle game, having read reviews to that effect. I still didn't like it. I'm all for originality and games trying things different but if I don't like them, I don't like them. It's simple.

The very fact you mentioned 'not what I expected when [you] heard another B&K game was coming out... I loved the N64 games' betrays the fact you approached it from a biased point of view.

 

Besides, how is saying you hated the game - and hate is a very strong word to use - any less extreme than his defense of it, which after all admitted the game was not flawless?

Edited February 27, 2011 by withoutphallus

[Connorrrr]

 

I think you're defending this game a little bit too much. Some people have differing opinions y'know? I went in with an open mind because I still bought the game, and I did know that it was primarily a vehicle game, having read reviews to that effect. I still didn't like it. I'm all for originality and games trying things different but if I don't like them, I don't like them. It's simple.

The very fact you mentioned 'not what I expected when [you] heard another B&K game was coming out... I loved the N64 games' betrays the fact you approached it from a biased point of view.

 

Besides, how is saying you hated the game - and hate is a very strong word to use - any less extreme than his defense of it, which after all admitted the game was not flawless?

 

I went into it loving Banjo and Kazooie games of the past. I also went in knowing that it was not like those games. I expected a good game and in my opinion, it wasn't. I'm just putting across my opinion and I'm not telling anyone they're right or wrong like rockyran is, I'm merely saying that it was not my kind of game.

[RockyRan]

Glad to see the incredibly idiotic hate for this game is quite alive and well.

 

It's one of the best games of this generation, people. Get over the fact that it's nothing like the N64 games already. Shit, people didn't bitch this much when Mario Kart came out and it was nothing like Mario. The original Banjo-Kazooie games weren't even all that great. Maybe you guys weren't old enough to remember, but when the original BK came out people whined that it was a "Mario 64 ripoff", then whined that the second "was too big".

 

Long story short, there's a long line of bitching regarding the franchise, first because it was too similar and now because it's too different. Here's the deal: Nuts & Bolts is quite easily the one game that gives the series the closest it has to a unique identity, and it's all the better for it. It's an unconventional game that isn't worried about pandering to the lowest common denominator, and it takes a quirky concept and runs with it. Suffice to say that if the "vehicles handheld like crap", YOU did something wrong with designing it, or if the game was "repititive", YOU failed at experimentation.

 

The game isn't completely flawless, but it's NOT "crap". And the people who call this "crap" just because of the fact that it's not a carbon copy of the N64 games without analyzing or even fucking mentioning the gameplay speaks quite a bit of you all's incredible pettiness. Never before have I seen such hatred for a game that isn't even about the game. You people don't hate the game because of what's in it, you hate it because of what is NOT in it. I can't even begin to explain what's wrong with that kind of thinking.

 

And people wonder why Call of Duty is the best selling franchise of this generation. It's because people HERP and freak the fuck out when a game tries anything different. You RUIN it for the rest of us who want new experiences and who, you know, keep an open mind about things.

 

I think you're defending this game a little bit too much. Some people have differing opinions y'know? I went in with an open mind because I still bought the game, and I did know that it was primarily a vehicle game, having read reviews to that effect. I still didn't like it. I'm all for originality and games trying things different but if I don't like them, I don't like them. It's simple.

 

Don't get me wrong. If you played the game with an open mind and still didn't like it, that's perfectly valid because it's simply unrealistic to expect a game that pleases everyone ever, especially with a game this unconventional.

 

I'm talking about the people who think the game is shit SOLELY on the fact that it's different and unconventional. Like the very first reply in this thread. That's the kind of thinking that makes developers default to same-y uninspired sequels, because contrary to popular belief, gamers are actually a clingy bunch who really only want marginal changes in their games. Take a game and spin it in a different direction and they hate it, not because of the merits of the actual game, but simply because of the fact that it's different.

 

Again, I'm not angry at all when someone says they genuinely gave the game a chance (that is, actually tried to play the game beyond their first failed vehicle instead of failing and saying "lulz physicz be borked") and don't like it. Everyone has their own opinion and they're perfectly entitled to one. I don't, however, condone uninformed, biased opinions on a game based on incredibly superficial facts like "it's not like its prequel".

[Johnny]

Because that post was too long to reply to it all without breaking it up:

 

Glad to see the incredibly idiotic hate for this game is quite alive and well.

All the same, glad to see we're opening our posts by declaring everyone who dislikes the game wrong.

 

It's one of the best games of this generation, people. Get over the fact that it's nothing like the N64 games already. Shit, people didn't bitch this much when Mario Kart came out and it was nothing like Mario. The original Banjo-Kazooie games weren't even all that great. Maybe you guys weren't old enough to remember, but when the original BK came out people whined that it was a "Mario 64 ripoff", then whined that the second "was too big".

 

1. "It's one of the best games of this generation, people."

This is opinion claimed as fact.

 

2. "Get over the fact that it's nothing like the N64 games already."

You're assuming that all the criticism comes from it being different. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever; People have brought up other points as to why they didn't like it. Furthermore, people are (generally) pretty open to spin-offs as long as they feel that the spin-off in question is good.

 

3. "Shit, people didn't bitch this much when Mario Kart came out and it was nothing like Mario."

Aside from the fact that most of us were kids back then and had completely different perspectives than we have now, see point 2.

 

4. "The original Banjo-Kazooie games weren't even all that great."

While I was never myself a huge fan, clearly a lot of people were and they disagree.

 

5. "Maybe you guys weren't old enough to remember, but when the original BK came out people whined that it was a "Mario 64 ripoff", then whined that the second "was too big"."

I could point out how ridiculus such criticism of BK would be, but I don't see the point of this argument in the first place.

 

Long story short, there's a long line of bitching regarding the franchise, first because it was too similar and now because it's too different. Here's the deal: Nuts & Bolts is quite easily the one game that gives the series the closest it has to a unique identity, and it's all the better for it. It's an unconventional game that isn't worried about pandering to the lowest common denominator, and it takes a quirky concept and runs with it. Suffice to say that if the "vehicles handheld like crap", YOU did something wrong with designing it, or if the game was "repititive", YOU failed at experimentation.

 

6. "Long story short, there's a long line of bitching regarding the franchise, first because it was too similar and now because it's too different."

See points 2, 3 and 5.

 

7. "Here's the deal: Nuts & Bolts is quite easily the one game that gives the series the closest it has to a unique identity, and it's all the better for it."

Nuts & Bolts is indeed the closest the series has had to being unique. A lot of the criticism stems from people not feeling like this unique identity is any good in the first place.

 

8. "It's an unconventional game that isn't worried about pandering to the lowest common denominator, and it takes a quirky concept and runs with it."

This is true and I wish more developers would just take cool concepts and run with them.

 

9. "Suffice to say that if the "vehicles handheld like crap", YOU did something wrong with designing it, or if the game was "repititive", YOU failed at experimentation."

No, no, no and also no. If an overwhelming amount of players "did it wrong", then the designers gravely failed in communicating to it's audience how it was supposed to be played. Furthermore, in my and at least one other player's experience even the pre-existing vehicles handled poorly.

 

The game isn't completely flawless, but it's NOT "crap". And the people who call this "crap" just because of the fact that it's not a carbon copy of the N64 games without analyzing or even fucking mentioning the gameplay speaks quite a bit of you all's incredible pettiness. Never before have I seen such hatred for a game that isn't even about the game. You people don't hate the game because of what's in it, you hate it because of what is NOT in it. I can't even begin to explain what's wrong with that kind of thinking.

 

10. "The game isn't completely flawless, but it's NOT "crap"."

See point 1.

 

11. "And the people who call this "crap" just because of the fact that it's not a carbon copy of the N64 games without analyzing or even fucking mentioning the gameplay speaks quite a bit of you all's incredible pettiness."

I'd quite seriously say that your inability to consider the possibility that people disliked it for entirely different reasons speaks quite a bit of your own pettiness.

 

12. "Never before have I seen such hatred for a game that isn't even about the game. You people don't hate the game because of what's in it, you hate it because of what is NOT in it. I can't even begin to explain what's wrong with that kind of thinking."

You're generalizing and belittling other people's opinions. Furthermore you're assuming that just because some people would have rather had another game in the vein of the classics, they would automatically dislike everything else regardless of quality. Can you please stop doing that?

 

And people wonder why Call of Duty is the best selling franchise of this generation. It's because people HERP and freak the fuck out when a game tries anything different. You RUIN it for the rest of us who want new experiences and who, you know, keep an open mind about things.

Are you fucking serious?

Just because a game tries something new that's not a free pass out of criticism if it's audience feels it does it wrong.

Implying that people who criticize Nuts and Bolts is at fault for Activision selling millions upon millions of anything with the Call of Duty name is both pointless and insulting. Implying that people who disagree with you are narrow-minded is even more insulting.

[Connorrrr]

 

Don't get me wrong. If you played the game with an open mind and still didn't like it, that's perfectly valid because it's simply unrealistic to expect a game that pleases everyone ever, especially with a game this unconventional.

 

I'm talking about the people who think the game is shit SOLELY on the fact that it's different and unconventional. Like the very first reply in this thread. That's the kind of thinking that makes developers default to same-y uninspired sequels, because contrary to popular belief, gamers are actually a clingy bunch who really only want marginal changes in their games. Take a game and spin it in a different direction and they hate it, not because of the merits of the actual game, but simply because of the fact that it's different.

 

Again, I'm not angry at all when someone says they genuinely gave the game a chance (that is, actually tried to play the game beyond their first failed vehicle instead of failing and saying "lulz physicz be borked") and don't like it. Everyone has their own opinion and they're perfectly entitled to one. I don't, however, condone uninformed, biased opinions on a game based on incredibly superficial facts like "it's not like its prequel".

 

I concede that to you, I can understand your frustration in that people might judge it because it isn't alike to the others, but they had a lot to live up to and people loved those games, myself included. I did know nuts and bolts was a vehicle game and I knew that it was totally and completely different but I just hoped it'd be better D:

[Johnny]

I would like to note that my reply was written before RockyRan got back to Connor and only reflects my opinion on the post I actually quoted.

[Chewblaha]

In other news. Panties is totes correct on this one.

[Baconrath]

 

I think that even if they did make a new Banjo-Kazooie more in line with the N64 games much of the magic that you found in the originals would be lost, like watching an old 80's cartoon from your childhood again.

 

In any case, the goggles do nothing. Take 'em off.

[CorgiShinobi]

 

I think that even if they did make a new Banjo-Kazooie more in line with the N64 games much of the magic that you found in the originals would be lost, like watching an old 80's cartoon from your childhood again.

 

In any case, the goggles do nothing. Take 'em off.

Well, here's a good method to find out if nostalgia is a factor. Get Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie from storage or purchase off of XBLA. Play and see if any memories have been exaggerated. After all, if a future title is going to replicate those experiences, going back would be a good method to see if the games still lived up to our expectations.

 

I can't validate any opinion on Nuts & Bolts because I, for one, am not in the possession of an Xbox 360. Now, I've made karts before, I had LEGO Racer back on the N64, so that's not so much a problem. What I've heard as an issue is balance between the new kart mechanic and traditional platforming. Still can't say for myself, but back around release, I heard people bemoaning how they spent a lot more time building karts than playing what they thought was Banjo-Kazooie.

[Hot Heart]

I had no idea this was such a divisive game.