Monday Night Combat

[deanb]

This game really really needs Steam Cloud support. It doesn't actually store your rankings and such online. They're saved as a local save. WTF

(I only know this cos I reinstalled and I guess I stupidly assumed the online game might maybe store my scores and such online. Surely that leaves it wide open to tampering for leaderboards?)

Also each time it updates it starts up on the tutorial match, which I find pretty obnoxious in the first place (while you can quickly skip it, it kind of means 1. You're waiting as it loads that match up instead of the man menu. 2. It also means you're playing your first match with the default n crappy settings. 3. The tutorial only covers one of the 6 classes anyway. If they're doing a tutorial why only one?)

I'm actually slightly amazed at some of the issues that passed on from Beta to full release. It's great they're tweaking balance to take into account kb/m (though I assume means if you're playing controller on PC you're fucked), but some of the basic could of been looked over surely?

[Harri]

I find it completely ironic that there are now MNC hats in TF2 and TF2 hats in Monday Night Combat. Fantastic.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Harri

[Tinkelp]

Also each time it updates it starts up on the tutorial match, which I find pretty obnoxious in the first place

I've only seen it 3 times. First was when I installed the beta in the first place, second was after the last beta update with the test reset and the last time was when the game was released. I haven't seen any bug reports of players going through the tutorial more than once for unexplained reasons so you should be fine from now on.

 

3. The tutorial only covers one of the 6 classes anyway. If they're doing a tutorial why only one?)

The point of the tutorial is to get you acquainted with the mechanics and objectives for the game which apply to all the classes. The Assault was probably picked as the tutorial class because his gamestyle is similar to most other shooters. He shoots a gun, has a grenade launcher and throws out bombs.

 

I can't think of an FPS that did have a detailed tutorial that showed off each and every aspect of all the classes. TF2's only lets you play as the Soldier and briefly touches on the mechanics of the Engineer by showing his constructions pre-deployed in the gameworld. In my experience this is typical.

 

 

I find it completely ironic that there are now MNC hats in TF2 and TF2 hats in Monday Night Combat. Fantastic.

I don't see how this is irony.

[deanb]

I've had it four times up to now:

-When I first started

-When it updated during beta (which also wiped my settings)

I didn't play for a while until:

-When I re-installed it

-When it updated to the full game.

So as far as my outlook goes it's basically throw up the tutorial each n every time. It should of really done it once.

[TheMightyEthan]

It's really weird/stupid that stats aren't stored online.

[Mal]

So... how is this game? From the looks of things, its TF2-esk.

[TheMightyEthan]

It's very extremely good, at least on 360 with friends. I haven't gotten into the PC version as much cause I don't really care to play without a party of friends.

 

It's like TF2 in that it's a class-based shooter, and it tries a little too hard to have TF2's sense of humor, but it's really a very different game. For one thing there's a tower-defense element to it.

 

If you have a 360 I recommend downloading the trial, though you need gold to play online, and for all intents and purposes it's an online-only game.

[Harri]

Also each time it updates it starts up on the tutorial match, which I find pretty obnoxious in the first place

I've only seen it 3 times. First was when I installed the beta in the first place, second was after the last beta update with the test reset and the last time was when the game was released. I haven't seen any bug reports of players going through the tutorial more than once for unexplained reasons so you should be fine from now on.

 

3. The tutorial only covers one of the 6 classes anyway. If they're doing a tutorial why only one?)

The point of the tutorial is to get you acquainted with the mechanics and objectives for the game which apply to all the classes. The Assault was probably picked as the tutorial class because his gamestyle is similar to most other shooters. He shoots a gun, has a grenade launcher and throws out bombs.

 

I can't think of an FPS that did have a detailed tutorial that showed off each and every aspect of all the classes. TF2's only lets you play as the Soldier and briefly touches on the mechanics of the Engineer by showing his constructions pre-deployed in the gameworld. In my experience this is typical.

 

 

I find it completely ironic that there are now MNC hats in TF2 and TF2 hats in Monday Night Combat. Fantastic.

I don't see how this is irony.

Remember on Kotaku and some forum boards, where they said MNC was a total ripoff from TF2? Well, now we have a fusion of the 2 games.

[Thorgi Duke of Frisbee]

Are the controls better suited for a PC or 360? Also, does the 360 version have a good number of online people?

[Tinkelp]

Both control schemes are fine and the PC ones can be rebound if you so choose. I don't know what the 360 population is nowadays but it was going strong for a good while.

Edited January 29, 2011 by TinKelp

[deanb]

Yeah Uber have made it work equally well on both, PC also supports 360 pad should you choose.

[Maritan]

Saw the fruit fucker today during one of the matches. At first I was like "WTF? I thought it was only in launch trailer", but then I started shooting at him.

[Mercurial]

Yes fruit fucker is so lulzy.

[deanb]

The tune that plays is pretty catchy.

[RockyRan]

I'll do this in simple list form, because I'm sure many people here don't want a multi-post wall-o-text rant and I certainly don't want to type one up

 

1) The art style. It's WAY too loud. The maps have too much color and the game constantly rapes your ears with completely unnecessary filler sounds, VA's, etc. As chaotic as other bright, colorful games with a lot sounds are (*coughTF2cough*), they can actually manage to trim the fat around the portions that don't have any impact on the player. Simply put, in competitive mutliplayer games, every sound needs to have a purpose. An alarming amount of sounds in MNC don't and as a result it's very difficult to concentrate and figure out what's going on if you're relying on audio cues. The same goes for the visuals. Even after playing for hours, I have a hard time distinguishing important aspects of the visuals because everything is equally vibrantly colored.

 

(tl;dr, too much rape on the ears and eyes)

 

2) The Assassin. She's not overpowered in my opinion, she just has no place in the game. She's far too independent, to the point where the game makes it extremely easy for her to solo and run around killing and destroying things without any regard for her team or what should be her ultimate goal (moneyball, etc.), or anything else because she can just kill things without any help from anyone. Contrast this to the Spy in TF2, who absolutely needs help if he wants to get more than a handful of backstabs per match, if that (even the best Spies). Relying more on the help of the teammates = helping the teammates themselves = better team players. I don't think Uber entertainment realized this when they made their "lonely desperado" class.

 

(tl;dr, Assassin is too independent, has no place in a team-based game, and 99% of players who use her only annoy opponents without actually doing anything useful)

 

3) Netcode/UI. It's a console port, through and through, and it doesn't look like Uber is afraid to show it at all. It's very clunky in general and the PC-exclusive portions of the UI such as the server browser and chatbox are incredibly buggy and/or very rough around the edges. It makes for a pretty non-intuitive experience.

 

(tl;dr, Netcode/UI)

 

4) The goddamn Unreal engine. Texture pop-in and no anti-aliasing support can go die in a fire. I need to see either of these things because I have a perfectly capable rig to negate these shortcomings.

 

(tl;dr, there is no tl;dr)

 

So there, my mini-rant on MNC. Enjoy. Or not.

[peteer01]

Why I stopped playing MNC:

 

No locale-only search option, and living in Japan meant so many bad connections.

 

Same reason I stopped playing BFBC2.

 

Same reason I smiled ear-to-ear when I saw Locale Only search options in WaW and COD:BO.

 

 

Seriously though, other than the connection issues, I thought MNC was a fantastic game, and absolutely incredible considering it was an XBLA FPS. Did not expect all that much, and was very pleasantly surprised.

Edited February 10, 2011 by peteer02

[Tinkelp]

1) The art style. It's WAY too loud. The maps have too much color and the game constantly rapes your ears with completely unnecessary filler sounds, VA's, etc. As chaotic as other bright, colorful games with a lot sounds are (*coughTF2cough*), they can actually manage to trim the fat around the portions that don't have any impact on the player. Simply put, in competitive mutliplayer games, every sound needs to have a purpose. An alarming amount of sounds in MNC don't and as a result it's very difficult to concentrate and figure out what's going on if you're relying on audio cues. The same goes for the visuals. Even after playing for hours, I have a hard time distinguishing important aspects of the visuals because everything is equally vibrantly colored.

What precisely is indistinguishable from what else? Scramblers make a humming noise and emit a sickly gas. Assassins make a loud and distorted electrical noise and their cloaks are team colored. Assault mines beep quickly and throb on the surface they're attached to. There are plenty of distinct clues about what's going on. Take more time to learn them.

 

Also, you can mute Mickey in the options menu if you're that dead set against having

.

 

 

2) The Assassin. She's not overpowered in my opinion, she just has no place in the game. She's far too independent, to the point where the game makes it extremely easy for her to solo and run around killing and destroying things without any regard for her team or what should be her ultimate goal (moneyball, etc.), or anything else because she can just kill things without any help from anyone. Contrast this to the Spy in TF2, who absolutely needs help if he wants to get more than a handful of backstabs per match, if that (even the best Spies). Relying more on the help of the teammates = helping the teammates themselves = better team players. I don't think Uber entertainment realized this when they made their "lonely desperado" class.

The Spy. He's not overpowered in my opinion, he just has no place in the game. He's far too independent with his near-silent and perfectly invisible cloak, to the point where the game makes it extremely easy for him to solo and run around wearing disguises without any regard for his team or what should be his ultimate goal (insta-kill backstabs that take less than a second to perform, etc.), or anything else because he can just kill things without any help from anyone. Contrast this to the Assassin in MNC, who absolutely needs help if she wants to get more than a handful of back-grapple kills (Which take a few seconds to complete during which she can be shot off by a nearby player/bot/turret) per match, if that (even the best Assassins). Relying more on the help of the teammates = helping the teammates themselves = better team players. I don't think Valve software realized this when they made their "lonely desperado" class.

 

 

3) Netcode/UI. It's a console port, through and through, and it doesn't look like Uber is afraid to show it at all. It's very clunky in general and the PC-exclusive portions of the UI such as the server browser and chatbox are incredibly buggy and/or very rough around the edges. It makes for a pretty non-intuitive experience.

That's not what netcode is.

 

The server browser isn't as robust and compact as the one for Steam but it's perfectly serviceable. Filter empty and full servers, restrict to a specific map, sort by ping. Hell of a lot better than what was in place for the beta.

 

 

4) The goddamn Unreal engine. Texture pop-in and no anti-aliasing support can go die in a fire. I need to see either of these things because I have a perfectly capable rig to negate these shortcomings.

It's hardly the fault of Uber and it doesn't stop the game from looking pretty damn good. Quit grasping for things to complain about. If you didn't enjoy the game then move on to something else. Don't go posting as if this is a shit game and that we should be ashamed of liking it.

Edited February 10, 2011 by TinKelp

[deanb]

I'll agree on 3. I was on the beta from the get go and even after they massively overhauled it, it's still pretty fucking clunky. The UI overall needs a complete look at. (Also all the way from start of beta to release using the scroll wheel to scroll would make the menu music stutter).

 

Admittedly when it first started off the amount of slots free (Which is still fucked up) used to say there was like 68 slots or 99 or whatever 2 digit numbers a computer can come up with. Which meant taking a while to find an open server. It's not as bad in release, but it's still not too great.

 

I agree assassin's are messed up. Don't forget, Spies are pretty slow. Now a Spy/Scout combo... That's not too great. Assassins have relatively high HP compared to a Spy too. A spy fucks up a kill, it's as good as dead. An Assassin? Few swipes of their blade n whatever they're attacking is dead.

 

The noise is noise, it would suck if there was people on who talked, but no one does, so it's better than the absolute silence that would be there otherwise. What does suck is there's only so many lines in it. It gets to the point where it's repeating within a single round. TF2 is mostly silent, but the players usually tend to be pretty chatty, and the catchphrases used I think each character (sans Pyro) has bout 50-60 each.

 

My main complaint is the lack of maps. I don't mind too much that they're tidgy, but there's only 3 to play. And also as someone brought up earlier starting each round is quite the wait.

 

Engine isn't much of a bother. Unreal runs, it works. Could it be prettier? Yes. Do most dev's know anything else? Rarely

[Tinkelp]

I agree assassin's are messed up. Don't forget, Spies are pretty slow. Now a Spy/Scout combo... That's not too great. Assassins have relatively high HP compared to a Spy too. A spy fucks up a kill, it's as good as dead. An Assassin? Few swipes of their blade n whatever they're attacking is dead.

Each class has at least one good method for dealing with Assassins. Everyone can grapple them back with the alt-fire on their secondary weapon which is the Support's best bet with a shotgun blast followup. Gunners can use their upgradable grapple skill or slam to try to ring them out. The alt-fire for the Tank's Jet Gun does a lot of damage and activates almost instantly. Plus, he is the only class that can survive a back-grapple with the sword. Assaults can charge into them as soon as the grapple animation ends. Snipers should have freeze traps laid down around them and his grapple skill spins enemies around at level one and can perform throws at level two.

 

Above all else, being aware of your surroundings is the best counter there is. If you hear the cloak then you should spin around and jump and hover if you can. They can't grapple you if you're in the air. After that isn't not hard to take down the class with the least amount of hit points.

 

Assassins and Spies both have similar skillsets that can greatly hinder the enemy team but they're both fragile and easily dealt with by paying attention for their warning signs. Saying one is deadlier than the other is absurd and even more so when you realize that you're comparing two different games that operate under different rules and goals. Apples to oranges.

 

 

The noise is noise, it would suck if there was people on who talked, but no one does, so it's better than the absolute silence that would be there otherwise. What does suck is there's only so many lines in it. It gets to the point where it's repeating within a single round. TF2 is mostly silent, but the players usually tend to be pretty chatty, and the catchphrases used I think each character (sans Pyro) has bout 50-60 each.

Noise is the same thing as noise, it would be bad if people talked, but nobody talks, so it's better then having nobody talk.

 

What?

 

Anyway, Uber is a new company and this is their first game. They don't have the resources Valve does so they focused on making their gameplay tight over hiring voice actors to say a lot of superfluous lines no matter how funny they could have been.

 

 

My main complaint is the lack of maps. I don't mind too much that they're tidgy, but there's only 3 to play. And also as someone brought up earlier starting each round is quite the wait.

Five maps.

 

That will be fixed soon enough. They've made a new map for DLC on the 360 (Already included with the PC version) so more being on the way is possible but they're focusing on squashing bugs and improving things like the server browser and such. Plus, an SDK has been promised but there's no ETA at the moment though.

[RockyRan]

What precisely is indistinguishable from what else? Scramblers make a humming noise and emit a sickly gas. Assassins make a loud and distorted electrical noise and their cloaks are team colored. Assault mines beep quickly and throb on the surface they're attached to. There are plenty of distinct clues about what's going on. Take more time to learn them.

 

Also, you can mute Mickey in the options menu if you're that dead set against having

.

 

In a game this busy, it's imperative to make the sounds as utilitarian (and dare I say it, minimalist) as possible. When I meant superfluous sounds, I meant more superfluous "noise" than anything else. I can recognize each sound that you're talking about, but the problem overall is that each of those sounds is too loud on its own, and it quickly devolves into multiple things all demanding your attention equally, essentially becoming glorified white noise. And this goes without mentioning the VAs, the music, or the crowd sounds. Again, too much noise, and the sounds that ARE useful are too loud and busy. The game just needs better mixing.

 

One thing to note is that what I'm saying aren't "first impressions". These are the things I actually CAN'T get used to, so saying "learn them", or "get used to them" doesn't do anything to refute my concerns.

 

The Spy. He's not overpowered in my opinion, he just has no place in the game. He's far too independent with his near-silent and perfectly invisible cloak, to the point where the game makes it extremely easy for him to solo and run around wearing disguises without any regard for his team or what should be his ultimate goal (insta-kill backstabs that take less than a second to perform, etc.), or anything else because he can just kill things without any help from anyone. Contrast this to the Assassin in MNC, who absolutely needs help if she wants to get more than a handful of back-grapple kills (Which take a few seconds to complete during which she can be shot off by a nearby player/bot/turret) per match, if that (even the best Assassins). Relying more on the help of the teammates = helping the teammates themselves = better team players. I don't think Valve software realized this when they made their "lonely desperado" class.

 

Cute turn-around, but a completely vacuous one. A Spy can't do anything on his own, even though an Assassin can make a very high amount of kills without anybody's help. The game simply doesn't encourage any teamwork with the Assassin.

 

If we're going to talk class design, you have to do better than childishly reposting my statement and swapping words.

 

That's not what netcode is.

 

The server browser isn't as robust and compact as the one for Steam but it's perfectly serviceable. Filter empty and full servers, restrict to a specific map, sort by ping. Hell of a lot better than what was in place for the beta.

 

It actually isn't perfectly serviceable. The server browser is very clunky and buggy, taking all too long to refresh servers, often gives the wrong ping on my first refresh and forces me to refresh several times, double-clicking to join flat out does not work sometimes for no reason, servers often do not show up at all and I have to restart the game, etc. And this is just the servers. I have similar lists for the in-game UI and chat boxes, but I won't bore people with the details.

 

And I actually did mean netcode, but I failed to specify further. That's my mistake. I've come across several servers with severe and constant lag spikes despite the game reporting low ping on them. And this is happening far too often to just attribute it to me joining crappy servers.

 

 

It's hardly the fault of Uber and it doesn't stop the game from looking pretty damn good. Quit grasping for things to complain about. If you didn't enjoy the game then move on to something else. Don't go posting as if this is a shit game and that we should be ashamed of liking it.

 

It IS the fault of Uber if they pick an outdated engine to run off of. It's a minor complaint of mine, but still a valid one. And I never once said "this game is shit and you should feel bad for playing it", I'm voicing my reasons as to why I personally dislike it. If you can't cope with it maybe you should learn to deal with others' opinions and complaints.

[Tiller]

 

Cute turn-around, but a completely vacuous one. A Spy can't do anything on his own, even though an Assassin can make a very high amount of kills without anybody's help. The game simply doesn't encourage any teamwork with the Assassin.

 

If we're going to talk class design, you have to do better than childishly reposting my statement and swapping words.

 

 

 

 

The Assassin is fine. This game is not TF2, and all the classes can excel on their own, but shine in team play. Next to the Tank, the Assassin is the defacto lane pusher and bot killer. She's supposed to be able to wreck havoc on unware foes, kill bots fast, and she does a pretty good job vs turrets if you play your cards right. She's also the most frail class in the game next to the Sniper, and everyone can deal with her if quite easily. Most assassins do no know this, and instead rush down other Pros. Most of the people that play her are bad, they barely put out a .5 kill/death ratio and hardly push lanes. If you're going to talk about Pro killers, you might want to take a look at the gunner, who is the best Pro killer and turret destroyer in the game. He's also the biggest target and one of the worst lane pushers. If you have a problem with a pro not being a team player you should be looking at the him. Heck, you could make any Pro sound like they don't endorse teamwork. Sniper perches and camps on his own, Assults run off on their own, etc etc.

 

An assassin using Teamwork is an asset to the team. The can smokebomb turrets allowing Pros to push closer into a base. They can hunt down and kill troublesome Pros while another person distracts. They kill the Jackbot faster than anything and can clear a lane faster than a tank with their speed. Invisible ninja Ejectors and being the first to the annihilator is also important. Like Assaults, they can be anywhere on the map in no time flat.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Tiller

[RockyRan]

The Assassin is fine. This game is not TF2, and all the classes can excel on their own, but shine in team play. Next to the Tank, the Assassin is the defacto lane pusher and bot killer. She's supposed to be able to wreck havoc on unware foes, kill bots fast, and she does a pretty good job vs turrets if you play your cards right. She's also the most frail class in the game next to the Sniper, and everyone can deal with her if quite easily. Most assassins do no know this, and instead rush down other Pros. Most of the people that play her are bad, they barely put out a .5 kill/death ratio and hardly push lanes. If you're going to talk about Pro killers, you might want to take a look at the gunner, who is the best Pro killer and turret destroyer in the game. He's also the biggest target and one of the worst lane pushers. If you have a problem with a pro not being a team player you should be looking at the him. Heck, you could make any Pro sound like they don't endorse teamwork. Sniper perches and camps on his own, Assults run off on their own, etc etc.

 

An assassin using Teamwork is an asset to the team. The can smokebomb turrets allowing Pros to push closer into a base. They can hunt down and kill troublesome Pros while another person distracts. They kill the Jackbot faster than anything and can clear a lane faster than a tank with their speed. Invisible ninja Ejectors and being the first to the annihilator is also important. Like Assaults, they can be anywhere on the map in no time flat.

 

I completely agree with the fact that Assassins can be very helpful to their team, but what I'm arguing is that the game doesn't discourage any kind of meaningless solo play even though it should.

 

You could chalk it up to player fault, but I don't think that works in every case. Couldn't any imbalance in any competitive game be chalked up to the player not using something properly or other players not being able to cope with it? No, I think there's a point where it's actually the developer's fault for not curbing poor player behavior. After all, that's really the point in balance, and influencing player behavior is exactly what happens when developers talk about "discouraging such and such" or "encouraging team play" or what have you. It's tweaks in the balance that nudge the players into playing a specific way.

 

I'm not seeing any of that with the Assassin. The reason why so many Sins are terrible as you say is because they think, to quote Yahtzee () "You CAN but why would you want to?" Sins CAN push lanes very effectively. They CAN smokebomb turrets, and they CAN distract other pros. But why would they want to? They have no incentive to actually push the team beacuse they get just as much satisfaction running around and just killing everything in sight.

 

Class-based team games operate on the Strengths vs. Weakness design for that very reason. They make class X good and this thing but not that thing, and class Y is good at that thing but not this. That's why acting as a team comes a lot more naturally to the other classes in MNC, because they have weaknesses and strengths and rely on the other classes to do what they can do. But then look at the Assassin, who doesn't need absolutely anything to have a satisfactory experience in the game. It's the solo character that doesn't NEED to play by the match's rules to kill bots and pros and move all over the map and destroy turrets and everything else. That's the problem with the Assassin, and why Uber needs to think along the lines of making tweaks to the gameplay to get people to actually play as a team with that class. It's not that she CAN'T help the team, it's that she doesn't need to, and because she doesn't need the team's help either.

[Tiller]

The Assassin is fine. This game is not TF2, and all the classes can excel on their own, but shine in team play. Next to the Tank, the Assassin is the defacto lane pusher and bot killer. She's supposed to be able to wreck havoc on unware foes, kill bots fast, and she does a pretty good job vs turrets if you play your cards right. She's also the most frail class in the game next to the Sniper, and everyone can deal with her if quite easily. Most assassins do no know this, and instead rush down other Pros. Most of the people that play her are bad, they barely put out a .5 kill/death ratio and hardly push lanes. If you're going to talk about Pro killers, you might want to take a look at the gunner, who is the best Pro killer and turret destroyer in the game. He's also the biggest target and one of the worst lane pushers. If you have a problem with a pro not being a team player you should be looking at the him. Heck, you could make any Pro sound like they don't endorse teamwork. Sniper perches and camps on his own, Assults run off on their own, etc etc.

 

An assassin using Teamwork is an asset to the team. The can smokebomb turrets allowing Pros to push closer into a base. They can hunt down and kill troublesome Pros while another person distracts. They kill the Jackbot faster than anything and can clear a lane faster than a tank with their speed. Invisible ninja Ejectors and being the first to the annihilator is also important. Like Assaults, they can be anywhere on the map in no time flat.

 

I completely agree with the fact that Assassins can be very helpful to their team, but what I'm arguing is that the game doesn't discourage any kind of meaningless solo play even though it should.

 

You could chalk it up to player fault, but I don't think that works in every case. Couldn't any imbalance in any competitive game be chalked up to the player not using something properly or other players not being able to cope with it? No, I think there's a point where it's actually the developer's fault for not curbing poor player behavior. After all, that's really the point in balance, and influencing player behavior is exactly what happens when developers talk about "discouraging such and such" or "encouraging team play" or what have you. It's tweaks in the balance that nudge the players into playing a specific way.

 

I'm not seeing any of that with the Assassin. The reason why so many Sins are terrible as you say is because they think, to quote Yahtzee () "You CAN but why would you want to?" Sins CAN push lanes very effectively. They CAN smokebomb turrets, and they CAN distract other pros. But why would they want to? They have no incentive to actually push the team beacuse they get just as much satisfaction running around and just killing everything in sight.

 

Class-based team games operate on the Strengths vs. Weakness design for that very reason. They make class X good and this thing but not that thing, and class Y is good at that thing but not this. That's why acting as a team comes a lot more naturally to the other classes in MNC, because they have weaknesses and strengths and rely on the other classes to do what they can do. But then look at the Assassin, who doesn't need absolutely anything to have a satisfactory experience in the game. It's the solo character that doesn't NEED to play by the match's rules to kill bots and pros and move all over the map and destroy turrets and everything else. That's the problem with the Assassin, and why Uber needs to think along the lines of making tweaks to the gameplay to get people to actually play as a team with that class. It's not that she CAN'T help the team, it's that she doesn't need to, and because she doesn't need the team's help either.

 

 

None of the classes need teamwork to be successful. Each are strong on their own. Snipers can camp, Tanks can single handedly lane push. Supports can lock down areas and camp there, Assaults can be anywhere at any time, and gunners are killing machines. A team using teamwork though is more powerful than these pros working alone, and the Assassin is no exception. They need their team much more than you think. While they're clearing lanes you might as well attach a massive "shoot me plz" sign on their back and have them wear a chicken suit because the assassin is wide open for anything to come their way. They either have to escape or die being as fragile as they are. Even clearing lanes will suck the health out of you and it's very possible to be bent over by the very bots you were clearing out without the Gold armor endorsement. While they go after turrets it's the same deal, only they'll need additional backup for more powerful turrets and defending pros. What they need is for their teammates to make openings while they make the starting/finishing blow.

 

Why they would do such a thing is a part of being a good player. The incentive is to help the team. It's the same with the support with his heal/hurt gun who only benefits from a little bit of juice building when he overheals folks around him. Bad players being bad is just down to that, bad players. Look at the TF2 Pyro. W + M1 is not proper ambushing and flanking, though the class suffers in that department anyway. Besides, your logic can applied to me just playing any class how I want. I can be a deploying tank camping our upper base on a window and railgun everyone if I felt like it. I could be a camping sniper racking up the kills sitting in my own base and only laying traps around me rather than booby trap where my support has set his sentry and snipe on the move. While Assassin players could use a bit more direction, I don't think its a major issue outside the name which implies pro killing. It's like the scout from TF2, who aptly fits the assassin moniker being the best combat class in TF2, rather than the fast/light hitter like his current name suggests.

 

Sure, you can ninja your way behind a base like in Spunky Cola to destroy bots at the source and get rid of longshot turrets all by yourself. You're still helping the team by doing that, and it's akin to the Spy taking out unguarded sentries.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Tiller

[Tinkelp]

In a game this busy, it's imperative to make the sounds as utilitarian (and dare I say it, minimalist) as possible. When I meant superfluous sounds, I meant more superfluous "noise" than anything else. I can recognize each sound that you're talking about, but the problem overall is that each of those sounds is too loud on its own, and it quickly devolves into multiple things all demanding your attention equally, essentially becoming glorified white noise. And this goes without mentioning the VAs, the music, or the crowd sounds. Again, too much noise, and the sounds that ARE useful are too loud and busy. The game just needs better mixing.

 

One thing to note is that what I'm saying aren't "first impressions". These are the things I actually CAN'T get used to, so saying "learn them", or "get used to them" doesn't do anything to refute my concerns.

TF2 has slider controls for Game Volume and Music Volume. MNC has sliders for Main, Music, Effects, and Voice Overs.

 

How can you have a problem with the sound effects in MNC when TF2 is even more complicated with more classes with more weapons on servers that allow for more players. If you can pick out a beeping sentry and a revved up minigun around a corner while pushing a rickety cart accompanied by the hum of the on-board dispenser the cracking of an ubercharge on standby from a medic that keeps insisting that you're a spy then you can make out bots shooting at a RockIt turret while a sniper rifle fires a few shots at an Assassin trying to flee by using a smokebomb jump.

 

 

Cute turn-around, but a completely vacuous one. A Spy can't do anything on his own, even though an Assassin can make a very high amount of kills without anybody's help. The game simply doesn't encourage any teamwork with the Assassin.

 

If we're going to talk class design, you have to do better than childishly reposting my statement and swapping words.

But the Spy DOES do things on his own. His role is to covertly slip behind players denying an area and take out the bigger threats quickly before the enemy team notices him so the attacking team can rush into a disabled and disorganized defense. That's doing something on his own for the benefit of the team. But it doesn't matter because TF2 and MNC are two different, yet similar, games with two different, yet similar, classes that have two different, yet similar, goals and operate under two different, yet similar, rules. Assassins would not be better if their cloak had perfect invisibility; a short, somewhat quiet whoosh sound that you only hear when activated or deactivated and an instant, animation-free instakill move. However that does not mean that TF2 would be better if Spies could blind everyone and disable sentries in a single AoE attack, jump insane heights without having to worry about fall damage and attack without waiting for the cloak to fully disengage.

 

 

It actually isn't perfectly serviceable. The server browser is very clunky and buggy, taking all too long to refresh servers, often gives the wrong ping on my first refresh and forces me to refresh several times, double-clicking to join flat out does not work sometimes for no reason, servers often do not show up at all and I have to restart the game, etc. And this is just the servers. I have similar lists for the in-game UI and chat boxes, but I won't bore people with the details.

 

And I actually did mean netcode, but I failed to specify further. That's my mistake. I've come across several servers with severe and constant lag spikes despite the game reporting low ping on them. And this is happening far too often to just attribute it to me joining crappy servers.

It's possible that this is on your end. I found

on the troubleshooting thread on MNC's Steam forum. It may or may not work for you.

 

 

It IS the fault of Uber if they pick an outdated engine to run off of. It's a minor complaint of mine, but still a valid one.

Shit, you better go tell Irrational Games, Rocksteady Studios, BioWare and all those other game companies that still use it. I'm sure they'd be happy to immediately switch to a new and up-to-date engine for their upcoming games.

 

 

And I never once said "this game is shit and you should feel bad for playing it", I'm voicing my reasons as to why I personally dislike it. If you can't cope with it maybe you should learn to deal with others' opinions and complaints.

So there, my mini-rant on MNC. Enjoy. Or not.

For someone that doesn't care about how people react to your writings you sure are mad at my writings that are reactions to yours!

[deanb]

I'm tidying up my Dropbox folder (which means I may need to FTP a few things up here in future) and came across this:

 

 

The mid-beta server browser. Buggy, quite different, and it also opened on the LAN tab by default.